15 replies to this topic

[An Individual]

I've seen a number of posts today claiming that with no R&R you can just fling yourself at the enemy with reckless abandon and no consequences. So, as a test earlier tonight I pulled out my Atlas D-DC brawler, played a game, and ran the calculations to compare the C-Bill profit from that game under the old system and the new one. Rather than fling myself into enemy fire which would have resulted in my death from one of their two AC20 Cats I moved with my team and stuck to cover as best I could. The game turned into a brawl in the lower part of River City which heavily favored my mech's play style (in addition to it being one of the stronger mech builds in the current meta, yay ECM). My results were:

Victory
1st place in rankings (1,029 XP)
2 kills
5 assists
907 damage done
10 components destroyed
2 spotting assists
19,283 salvage bonus
R&R cost: 73,458

Under the current system I received:

Victory: 100,000
Kills: 4,000
Assists: 5,000
Components Destroyed: 5,000
Damage done: 9,070
Spotting assists: 4,000
Salvage: 19,283
Total: 151,353 (227,030 with premium account time)
Profit: 77,895 (153,572 with premium account time)

As per game income goes this is pretty good, although I could have done better with a mech with lower repair costs. But if I had just flung myself into battle, died, and not repaired my mech I could have made a similar level of profit for a non-premium account and slightly less with a premium account in a fraction of the time and with none of the skill. And that's assuming my team lost. Under the new system I would have received:

Victory: 25,000
1st place in rankings: 100,000 (listed as 100,000+ in notes so assuming lowest value)
Kills: 10,000
Assists: 37,500
Components Destroyed: 25,000
Damage done: 22,675
Spotting assists: 5,000
Salvage: 19,283
Total: 244,458 (366,687 with premium account time)
Profit: 244,458 (366,687 with premium account time)

If I had simply flung myself at the enemy and died I would have probably ended up in last place giving me 50k (25 for playing and 25 for coming in last) plus a bit extra for what little damage I did before I died. By working with my team and engaging when it was advantageous I earned nearly 5 times what I would have earned if I had mindlessly gotten myself killed. This sounds like reasonable consequences to me. The new system isn't perfect but it rewards participation, tactics, and skill. Not reckless behavior and suicide farming.

[Rex Budman]

Yes, but, you do not lose...

[Deadoon]

I think the rankings thing is an average payput for someone which achieves that level on the scoreboard.

Rex Budman, on 17 December 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

Yes, but, you do not lose...

losing money on a win is a good way to alienate new players.

Edited by Deadoon, 17 December 2012 - 11:30 PM.

[Rex Budman]

Deadoon, on 17 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think the rankings thing is an average payput for someone which achieves that level on the scoreboard.



losing money on a win is a good way to alienate new players.

New players for sure.

RnR shouldn't be the end all of consequence.

I'd much preffer losing rank position on a leaderboard than my monopoly money...

[Teralitha]

Yea Im not sure about the average rewards payout thing... He may have misworded that, and ppl seem to think its 'extra' cbills, because if thats true... the top scoring players in every match are gonna have cbills coming out of their ears... what would you ever need premium time for.

[Elizander]

I do think that R&R was a fun mechanic, personally, but I won't be too upset to see it go. I think the numbers on R&R were a bit off for the various weight classes and would be hard to balance, to be honest.

I'd give it more thought but I'd rather wait and see how the changes turn out first.

[Asmosis]

Deadoon, on 17 December 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

I think the rankings thing is an average payput for someone which achieves that level on the scoreboard.

This.

I'm 99% sure what is intended with the part of the patch notes is that is what we are Currently getting on average, after repair costs.

Its not going to be a bonus given on top of everything else since Dev's have stated match rewards should be "about" 100k in total.

Also if the opposite of recklass is ***** assult mechs hiding in the back lines flinging lrms (from a single lrm20) then I am all for more recklass pilots. It puts your opponents under a lot more pressure if a team charges into them since they dont have time to focus fire etc.

Edited by Asmosis, 18 December 2012 - 12:49 AM.

[Timelordwho]

At first I thought R&R removal was catering to bads, but I think that it will be fine, if they added it back, but only for community warfare,

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Rex Budman, on 17 December 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

New players for sure.

RnR shouldn't be the end all of consequence.

I'd much preffer losing rank position on a leaderboard than my monopoly money...

And this is why loosing said Monopoly money IS an incentive to learn, and why, frankly, leaderboards are detrimental to the overall experience of MWO.

MWO isn't about who's got the most kills, or who's got the most c-bills, it's about working with your team. If you're pugging, then you're at a disadvantage, and if you're trying to showboat, you're at a disadvantage. What matters, at the end of the day, is preformance, and a win.

If you're an ***** and run out in your big assault mech and get blown to crap, guess what, you DESERVE negative c-bills.

There's this misconception that assault mechs are "tanking" mechs ment to absorb damage on the frontlines... Frankly that's wrong. What assault's and heavy's ARE... is the Anvil to the Light and Medium's "hammer"

Assaults should be bringing up the rear with heavy firepower to level pretty much anything, though it's probably fairly short range stuff [save for mechs like the Awesome running PPC's or the like] Medium Lasers, SRM's, AC20's[this type of loadout especially concerning an Atlas] The tactic is that your lights and mediums run out, and try to circle the other lights/mediums, and push them towards the "anvil" The "Anvil" of heavy's and assaults keep moving up and crush the opposition between them.

Granted no plan survives first contact with the enemy, but I think you get my drift.

They're going to hit you where it hurts, the c-bills, why? Because you CARE about the c-bills, because you need C-bills to keep your ride going, and to get new rides. It's as simple as that.

Oh did I mention this also plays into getting people to buy premium?

You argue for the new users... the fix is insanely simple, and a two parter.

First part: Add a tutorial of some kind, even if just a static level with target's and objectives with a voice-over explaining things... this tutorial needs to cover

Movement, forward, backward, torso twist, arm movement, dirrection when twisted one way and moving another.
Firing: Firing groups, weapons in general, heat management.

From there, you set up a Trial Mech Only que, for 25-30 matches, maybe 50, have it run long enough that a player can afford a medium mech or so, and then that's it, by that time, people will have figured it out.

DO NOT MAKE THE Trial Only Que manditory! however make it plainly visible. this way new players that may be getting folded into an existing unit can play with the unit in trials if they so wish. However the Tutorial SHOULD be manditory.

[Grissnap]

Quote

Victory: 25,000
1st place in rankings: 100,000 (listed as 100,000+ in notes so assuming lowest value)
He was just providing an idea of what someone in 1st place would get in terms of payout.
Kills: 10,000
Assists: 37,500
Components Destroyed: 25,000
Damage done: 22,675
Spotting assists: 5,000
Salvage: 19,283
Total: 144,458 (216,687 with premium account time)
Profit: 144,458 (216,687 with premium account time)

FTFY

[elbloom]

as i understand you still get 50k per match for doing NOTHING AT ALL ?

ahh damn this is p1ss, this will not reduce afkfarming/botting a bit.

Can´t they see that afkfarmers get those 50k per fkn MINUTE vs. the real warriors fighting for 15 minutes then getting 200k... I´m truly beginning to question the intentions of the devs.

afkfarmers start their script and drop into a match like every minute, suicide, quit match - rinse repeat. They do this since this game went open beta and suck up the fun of their team, match after match after match.

Is it REALLY so hard to REMOVE the fookn WELFARE SHEET ? **** this.

[Elizander]

They could simply add that killing yourself within the first minute or two gives you 0 c-bills.

[elbloom]

was there welfare in TT ? who had the *.*.***bleepbleep idea in the first place ?? WELFARE ?? BATTLETECH ??? you guys need a spanking till it bleeds then be sitdown on a ton of salt. your families have to be lobotomized.

Aww i could rant all day about this....

edit: they could, yeah they fkn could, but do they do it ?? they could´ve done it after 100s of threads started popping up bout afkfarmers and suiciders after the game went open beta. But they don´t !!!
50k for a loss where you did nothing ? WHYYYYYYYY ... now the botheads won´t have to repair, blowing them to pieces will do nothing to harm them anymore...

Could hit my head against a wall all day, I really wanted this patch to fix the fkn bots.... they just don´t get it....

Edited by elbloom, 18 December 2012 - 01:25 AM.

[MadcatX]

elbloom, on 18 December 2012 - 01:20 AM, said:

was there welfare in TT ? who had the *.*.***bleepbleep idea in the first place ?? WELFARE ?? BATTLETECH ??? you guys need a spanking till it bleeds then be sitdown on a ton of salt. your families have to be lobotomized.

Aww i could rant all day about this....

Pilots on welfare piloted Urbanmechs.

[Deadoon]

MadcatX, on 18 December 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Pilots on welfare piloted Urbanmechs.

Or tanks.

One of those could cost less than even a basic fusion engine for a commando.

[Chemie]

as stated, your math is wrong. the 100,000 referred to the TOTAl after all the performance awrds but before founders/premium etc.

Re-run your test after 3:00 EST today and you will see rewards are much lower for everyone except the top 1-3 players on the team.