79 replies to this topic

[Arclight]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 18 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

stunlock? I was under the impression the cockpit shake was aesthetic and doesnt actually move the targetting reticle?

Not really, no. You can return fire effectively enough against stationary targets, but something moving across your sights, while sporting a healthy mix of SRM, AC and lasers is tricky.

Hell, were you around when the 6x LRM-5 Cats were popular? Those were a pain in the ***, especially with the tight spread LRM had by default. Stun locked with indirect fire, taking lots of damage and a lance moving in to shoot you in the face. Surprised it isn't used as much anymore.

Edited by Arclight, 18 December 2012 - 09:08 AM.

[Yankee77]

KinLuu, on 18 December 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Brawling is a different word for chaotic, unorganized melee.

It is fun, in the same way hldm was fun. But it gets stale very fast. There need be much bigger maps - for both close combat (city maps e.g.) and long ranged combat (like a mountain range). Scouting, indirect and direct fire support and all those little things need to get their place as well as the brawlers. But if the game only consists of brawling... It is not much better than CoD.


(I lied, it is still a lot better, but I wanted to make a point.)

Actually, brawling is also used in Tabletop Battletech, that's where the idea of "Brawler mechs" comes from. And proper brawling in BT _and_ MWO is anything but chaotic. It is by maintaining proper formation, cohesion, and focus that a brawling unit will succeed.

When your brawlers round the corner and see the enemy arrayed in a firing line with overlapping fields of fire, that's when you know you're in trouble.

(mind you, I'm totally with you that the game needs more than brawling. Role Warfare is a necessary concept IMO. I only object to the idea that Brawling has to be chaotic. It is a skill like any other)

Edited by Itkovian, 18 December 2012 - 09:09 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Ozric, on 18 December 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Brawling is mess, therefore only messy people like brawling.

[color=#222222]I am definitely a messy person. Nothing is more satisfying that wading into a pack in my hunchback and creating chaos. If I Kill or maim my enemies so that my team may move and clean them up I feel its a job well done especially if they are the bigger badder brutes that I am going against. While I don't mind a range war from time to time I feel being player of the furball is a more satisfying experience.[/color]

[bug3at3r]

People are gonna b*tch for the sake of b*tching.

If you're not CoD brawling, you're camping. If you're not camping, you're lag switching. If you're not lag switching, you're aim botting. If you're not aimbotting, you're premade scum, etc etc etc

[Zolaz]

Going Sumo and running up belly to belly isnt brawling, it is only a sign of a bad pilot. If this game had splash damage from reactor breaches then Id change my mind. There are a lot of bad pilots and gunners out there.

Brawling is legit. There is "brawling" and then there is donkey punching someone in the back with your AC 20.

[Pygar]

OneManWar, on 18 December 2012 - 09:03 AM, said:

I've mainly seen these comments in the ECM threads, since ECM is ONLY good for brawlers apparently (definitely not for covering your own LRM boats or snipers or anything like that). I just find it funny. "Go brawl pew pew skilless nub".

And then I'm like, ok I will, here comes my cannon bang bang! You're dead. Shouldn't have let me get so close!

It's a backlash from the brawlers making fun of the missile pilots here in the forums... they thought they were actually using skill while playing this game, and then got told that no, they were in fact flying the easy button mechs.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Arclight, on 18 December 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Not really, no. You can return fire effectively enough against stationary targets, but something moving across your sights, while sporting a healthy mix of SRM, AC and lasers is tricky.

Hell, were you around when the 6x LRM-5 Cats were popular? Those were a pain in the ***, especially with the tight spread LRM had by default. Stun locked with indirect fire, taking lots of damage and a lance moving in to shoot you in the face. Surprised it isn't used as much anymore.

Yeah I was, hated them, but as soon as I saw the full SRM compliment I was spamming my LRMs at them (back when they actually worked)

[Aegis Kleais]

OneManWar, on 18 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Hey everyone.

I've been wondering, how exactly did brawling become compared to Call of Duty in the eyes of the elite? I keep seeing all these posts of people saying: "Oh you just like to COD brawl with your PEW PEW" and using brawling as a derogatory term to describe new players or people with no skill.

I started playing tabletop Battletech with the boxed set in 1994 and have always had a special place for it in my heart. I'm a big fan of the AC/20 and SRM's and have been in all of the Mechwarrior games. Why exactly does this make me a 'lower class citizen' now?

If I wade into battle and kill 3 people, get assists on 3 more, and come out alive, with a bunch of people targetting me, how does that relate to no skill and what the hell does that have to do with Call of Duty? Does it really take more skill to sit unmoving at 800M and click on a little blue heat outline? Or to follow a red square with your missle lock on and hit 1 button?

Brawling has always been a part of Battletech, that's why the weapons exist, hell, there are mechs designed with hand to hand weapons specifically for that. I say we take back brawling in the name of all close ranged mechwarriors past, present, and future, and put an AC/20 slug in their elitist, gauss rifling, LRM launching *****.

Hah!

Anyone using 'pew pew' in their argument has already discredited validity of their point automatically, so don't worry about them.

In MWO, we always called it "Dueling" (specifically when you got in close 1v1 with an enemy) often resulting in the players circling one another, trading shots, performing maneuvering until 1 fell or fled. It's visceral, has lots of action, and is rather dangerous.

The belief that you're less of a player because you brawl is run of the mill online ignorance. Some people will state that anything that can be used to defeat them MUST justify a cheap quality mechanic to it. I've had people say 'Quad Lasers are for idiots.' after I kill them with it, to which I respond, 'wow, then it looks like an ***** just kicked your a**.'

Keep up the good fight. I keep an eye on brawlers and try to take out their punch at range, because logically, getting in that close can spell a quick death sentence. Too many people just think the game is about always getting up close and attacking, only to find out too late that they came up against duel AC/20's, and they died shortly after. That's no fault of the brawler, but of the pilot who was too inept to scan the enemy threat before performing CQC maneuvers.

[Velba]

Nadia Winson, on 18 December 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

You wouldn't be posting a short essay about this if it didn't bother you. Might I recommend upgrading to a thicker dermis?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Itkovian, on 18 December 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Actually, brawling is also used in Tabletop Battletech, that's where the idea of "Brawler mechs" comes from. And proper brawling in BT _and_ MWO is anything but chaotic. It is by maintaining proper formation, cohesion, and focus that a brawling unit will succeed.

When your brawlers round the corner and see the enemy arrayed in a firing line with overlapping fields of fire, that's when you know you're in trouble.

(mind you, I'm totally with you that the game needs more than brawling. Role Warfare is a necessary concept IMO. I only object to the idea that Brawling has to be chaotic. It is a skill like any other)

yeah but the brawler mechs I remember had a different meaning behind the brawling. Like the berserker
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Berserker
especially the C3

Or these in general:
http://www.sarna.net...lee_BattleMechs

edit:
the hell? http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Banshee in the melee mechs... that was a long range mech
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Black_Knight too...

the lolmech itself: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Charger
man a lotts these "melee mechs actually arent designed to be them lol

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 18 December 2012 - 09:18 AM.

[Rackminster]

Zolaz, on 18 December 2012 - 09:11 AM, said:

Going Sumo and running up belly to belly isnt brawling, it is only a sign of a bad pilot.

I try and keep a sane distance so I can aim easier, but sometimes terrain forces me to choose between moving towards my enemy, humping a wall and remaining stationary, or giving him access to my soft arse... and then there are times when the shortest path to having someone stop shooting you is by running at them and getting behind them.

Maybe I am a bad pilot. I don't have a 4.0 or higher K/D ratio.

[KhanCipher]

Ozric, on 18 December 2012 - 08:53 AM, said:

Brawling is mess, therefore only messy people like brawling.

but, but, i like being the guy with a mech you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley...

[Kaijin]

OneManWar, on 18 December 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Brawling has always been a part of Battletech

Quoted for emphasis.

A part - not the whole. And the complaint is against it being the whole. The weapon systems in BattleTech are designed for engangement at all ranges - not just one. I want brawling in the game, but I also want long range missile barrages, sniping, and mid-range exchanges as well.

[Cerlin]

I also appreciate a good brawl and dont know what is up with people. I think some people are just risk averse and a ranged battle can make risk much less. These same players eventually get rushed by a close ranged brawler and die, this is probably where this opinion comes from.

With that said, I also enjoy having a balanced team. If you can have the other team softened up before you hit them, the brawling always goes better. The maps and Ecm make brawling more friendly, but if you learn the maps each have very elaborate killing fields available for long range players. Got to love balance (remember a couple weeks ago when everyone whined about lrms and guass, this is just a shift the other direction.)

[Jman5]

Jad3d, on 18 December 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

There will always be some elitist ***** telling you you're "playing wrong". Just ignore them and knock a couple AC/20 rounds into their cockpit.

Always be wary of the people who try telling you the "accepted" way to play the game. They tend to do this because it conflicts with their preferred playstyle. Like the guy in MWO who says base rushing is cheesy because his team never scouts the obvious rush paths.

Some guy who likes to sit in the back and lob LRMs or Gauss shots, probably doesn't want you getting in close to slug it out with him.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kaijin, on 18 December 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Quoted for emphasis.

A part - not the whole. And the complaint is against it being the whole. The weapon systems in BattleTech are designed for engangement at all ranges - not just one. I want brawling in the game, but I also want long range missile barrages, sniping, and mid-range exchanges as well.

Yes, this brawling and lack of any other game thing isnt good either tho

[Hatachi]

The main thing that always struck me as odd is the amount of people who think bullet spray is unrealistic. I posted a thread involving having a larger reticle/ higher bullet spray the higher percentage of throttle used and it seemed everyone thought this would make it CoD. To me it just seemed realistic, a gun isn't going to be as accurate no matter the targeting computer bouncing around, and it made other sections of throttle other than full or nothing useful. It also was an application of the +2 +4 of running/walking in the tabletop. However, it came off as arcadey to other people. *shrug* People choose odd things to choose as unrealistic. It's in CoD yes, but it's also in ARMA II, not exactly the most arcadey shooter around.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Jman5, on 18 December 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Some guy who likes to sit in the back and lob LRMs or Gauss shots, probably doesn't want you getting in close to slug it out with him.

LRM no, but the Gauss guy doesnt really matter. Those work as well up close as they do far off.

[Arclight]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 18 December 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Yeah I was, hated them, but as soon as I saw the full SRM compliment I was spamming my LRMs at them (back when they actually worked)

Never tried them, never even owned a A1 even, but that really was a good counter against stuff like that. Against pretty much anything really... prolly a good thing they changed the missiles from coming down vertically and being fire-and-forget.

I bet it would still work pretty well if you paired up with a buddy with TAG. Pretty decent variety of builds outside of 8v8, but something like an A1 generally is a priority target and needs to be locked down.


Wait, what were we on about? Ah right, Brawling... Yeah, don't understand the CoD argument either. Positioning, cover and thinking about who and what part you target doesn't strike me as "CoD-like". You can simply run out there and start blasting, but that generally doesn't contribute much unless you're boating something fierce and catch a straggler or 2.

[Kaijin]

Jman5, on 18 December 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Some guy who likes to sit in the back and lob LRMs or Gauss shots, probably doesn't want you getting in close to slug it out with him.

...OR some guy whose mech is fitted entirely with short-range weaponry doesn't like to get shot outside his weapon range. Two sides of that coin.