27 replies to this topic

[Palutena]

What are some good Cataphract 3D Builds? I rarely see any Cataphract 3d in games. Its mostly Ilyas and other variants. I was thinking either 3 large laser and a gaus rifle, or ER PPC, gaus rifle and 2 med lasers for a sniper build. Is that viable? What number of jump jets do you need now that they nerfed the 1 jump jet bug. Is it worth the risk to run an XL engine for more speed? I'm thinking no because I find myself losing left and right torso weapons quite often.

[Kalam Mehkar]

For what it's worth, I found the XL a huge hindrance in the 3D that I got to round out my mech expertise for the Cataphracts. At least for the way I'm playing the 'phract.

I even bumped up to an 300XL I had laying around to try a little more speed to see if that helped (I didn't want to spend the money on the phract's "max-XL size" if I found it to be too fragile). I just found that after running my 1x & 2x through expertise builds that I really, really like the standard engine in them.

I had tried that same 300XL some time ago but switched back to the standard engines (including a 300 standard from a Dragon in one of the) in my other phracts. So I was ready to try the XL engine in the phract again to see if the extra weight could add some more happiness (dakka=happiness usually ). Instead, it just re-emphasized how much more fragile it is over the standard engine.


Again, this is just how I find myself playing my Cataphracts - I usually end up following an Atlas or another couple of phracts into battle and end up within 50-300 meters for most of the fight.

If I changed things up to use that XL weight savings for more of a sniper build (and played it that way!) with a Gauss or something, then it might change my outlook on the XL. In fact, I think I'll try that again tonight now that the PPC speed has been bumped up. I'll match a PPC and GR and see what happens... I'm always willing to try new builds and combinations!

GL&HF out there

[I WildCard I]

I used to use the 3D as my main. After seeing these drastic nerfs to jumpjets I will probably be switching to another mech.


XL 280
2x Gauss rifle
50 rounds of Gauss (5 Tons)
4 Medium lasers

Endo Steel
Dual Heat sinks
One in engine

Jump jets

[Fred013]

Just run one like a gausscat but faster (maybe?) and with support weapons.

[Alphascrub]

Personally I run a Gausscat because its a lot less vulnerable than the other dual GC capable mec.

I rip the armor off my arms, and spread it to my shoulders, chest and legs (ammo there) and run to ML in my shoulders next to my Gauss.

Edited by Alphascrub, 18 December 2012 - 08:28 PM.

[I WildCard I]

Alphascrub, on 18 December 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

Personally I run a Gausscat because its a lot less vulnerable than the other dual GC capable mec.

I rip the armor off my arms, and spread it to my shoulders, chest and legs (ammo there) and run to ML in my shoulders next to my Gauss.

Gauss ammo will not detonate.

[Wrenchfarm]

I WildCard I, on 18 December 2012 - 10:01 PM, said:

Gauss ammo will not detonate.

Oh but the Guass rifles themselves will. Not something you want to leave hanging off your right arm for all the world to target. I've taken down a lot of YLWs and Phracts by singling out their arm mounted guass rifles and letting the explosion do the rest.

I recently got a Phract-3D myself and built it similarly to a friend of mines that I witnessed in action. XL290 engine, DHS, 4xMLAS, 2 AC10s, 4 tons of ammo, and a jumpjet which I just found out they patched today, so I have to tweak the build a little. It is a tough *******. The 2xAC10s are a better fit to me than 2x Guass or a AC20 mixed with something else. I like the speed and punch of the AC10s, think of them as an easier to lead AC20 with more ammo. The 4MLAS make it unpleasant to brawl with up-close.

The XL is a liability. You have to play smart and really work that torso twisting action to spread out the damage. But I'm able to go 68kph, a lot better than my 4X which ended up in the scrape heap because I couldn't handle puttering along at 45kph.

[Kalam Mehkar]

I WildCard I, on 18 December 2012 - 06:26 PM, said:

I used to use the 3D as my main. After seeing these drastic nerfs to jumpjets I will probably be switching to another mech.


XL 280
2x Gauss rifle
50 rounds of Gauss (5 Tons)
4 Medium lasers

Endo Steel
Dual Heat sinks
One in engine

Jump jets

This. This worked very well for me last night in PUG-only games. My damage went from 250-450 typical range in PUGs to 600-800 last night. I forced myself to play the sniper roll, and only brawled when the fight dictated it. It was surprisingly good in brawls though, with a number of kills coming from MLs punching through empty side torsos and such. (I did end up dropping one ML for another ton of ammo after running out two matches in a row, giving me five more linked shots. fwiw...)

I was really afraid of the Gauss Rifle explosions, but I think that only happened once or twice in 12+ fights last night, when I was really getting pounded on at the end of a losing match anyway. Wrenchfarm mentioned the torso-twisting for the XL, but the same applies to the Gauss and I think being aware of that risk really made me use torso-twisting more than normal and keep the incoming missiles and other fire on the left arm and torso and even back. And that, along with the nice 2xGR alpha punch in one location, letting me drop foes quickly, kept me going much longer through some of the rougher fights than without actively using the torso-twisting.

I don't know if I'll use this build forever, but it was certainly fun last night so I'll keep it up for a while and see where it goes. I still don't really like the dependency on the XL, though I feel a bit like a hypocrite carrying around two GR's on my right side and enjoying it...

So, for what it's worth, it was fun for me

[Kalam Mehkar]

Ok, so the OP also asked about a mixed armament with ballistic and energy sniper weapons. I was running the Cataphract 1X and really enjoying the basically stock loadout (DHS, Endo, etc., but with the Standard Engine). I was running it with a PPC, AC/10, and 4 ML. It was a lot of fun and I did really good with it, even if I still tended to closer-range sniping and brawling. If I played it more like the 3D last night, I may do better with it than I already was (however, the 2xGR 30-pt shot in one location is just not matched by 2x 10-point shots...).

However, I just fitted it out with one of the GRs and kept the PPC, keeping the standard 280 engine. Had to drop a few heat sinks to get it to fit, but the GR does run cool. So right now it has a GR, PPC, and 4 MLs. You could drop a ML or two for more heatsinks if you find yourself overheating with the PPC while sniping. Otherwise, I think if you used the PPC shots outside the ML range, or for the occasional opportunistic 90-250 meter alpha, you'd probably be fine. I'll try it out later today and tweak it and let you know how it goes.

You could do this essentially this same build in the 3D by dropping a ML for a heatsink. If you want to use the XL with it, you could add more DHS and run an ERPPC I imagine...

[PanicFire]

When I get around to building my 3D I'm thinking

DHS, Std Armor, Std. Internal, XL 280 Engine
4 x MLas
2 x AC-10
4 x AC-10 Ammo
4 x DHS (beyond the Engine (14 total))
Jump Jets

BTW - I'm not sure that AC-10's classifies this as a sniper.

Edited by PanicFire, 19 December 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Xenon Codex]

I've just started using an AC/20 build for my 3D, it's slow at 57kph (no speed tweak yet) but fun. I love the sound of that AC/20 and watching it impact, especially on an Atlas. A single JJ is now practically useless, except for skimming over hills and jumping off cliffs. If you want to actually go "up", you'll need a lot more than one. Later tonight I might play with exchanging the LL for a MPL and maxing out the JJs.

STD 245, DHS, ES
AC/20, 3t ammo
AC/5, 2t ammo
1 LL
1 MPL
400 standard armor

[Lootee]

Totally viable. I get good results with this:

CTF-3D
325xl engine
14DHS
368 armor
Endo
ERPPC in LA
GR in RA with 3 tons ammo
Med lasers in RA RT LT
4 jumpjets

With speed tweak it runs at 82kph. Does only 5 less dmg than a gauss cat at long range. Does 30 pts of dmg up close with no heat build up or 40 for a full alpha.

It has most of the gauss cat's bite but is far faster and adds jumping ability. It's basically a Falconer minus 1 medium laser. FLC-8R is one of the most OP Inner Sphere mechs in the TT game. Does well in MWO too.

Thinking of putting in a smaller 320xl engine for a little bit more armor and 81kph speed. But the thangs are expensive to replace.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 19 December 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[KeefCheef]

Running the stock 280XL, my favorite builds for the 3D have been:

1x Gauss (3t ammo)
2x LL
2x MPL
4x JJ
Endo
DHS


or, for a full energy boat (and now that ppc's got buffed!)
2x LL
2x PPC or ERPPC
JJ, Endo, DHS

I don't like running dual gauss in this variant due to hardpoint location/convergence issues

[Kalam Mehkar]

PanicFire, on 19 December 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

When I get around to building my 3D I'm thinking

DHS, Std Armor, Std. Internal, XL 280 Engine
4 x MLas
2 x AC-10
4 x AC-10 Ammo
4 x DHS (beyond the Engine (14 total))
Jump Jets

BTW - I'm not sure that AC-10's classifies this as a sniper.

I've thought about trying this one too and probably will (variety is the spice of life and whatnot). I think the AC/10 is a nice mid-range sniper, easily up to 650 meters. Maybe not max damage, but when it's max range is 1350, it shouldn't be that far off. If it is, someone can correct me.

But it'll make a heck of a "on the edge of the brawl" sniper

[Cerlin]

I also find the duel guass 3D build viable. It is what people in other mech games called a "poptarting" mech. You can jump over map geography, shoot at range, go back down before they can return fire. I tested it with max jumpjets and the 3d still can go over mountains and buildings with ease. My build doesnt have guass (I use large AC) but the concept and use is the same. I do believe the jumpjets need buffs now but it works well for range and RUNNING AWAY.

[blacklp]

Currently running 3D with the following

280 std
4 MLAS
1 AC20
4 tons AC20 ammo
AMS
1 ton AMS ammo
2 JJ ( i like the quick boost in terrain, turning radius )
15 DHS
Endo Steel

Hit and Run Brawler/ Assault Support

Another popular build I see/use is the 4 LLAS build

[Palutena]

Thank you everyone.

PanchoTortilla, on 19 December 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

Totally viable. I get good results with this:

CTF-3D
325xl engine
14DHS
368 armor
Endo
ERPPC in LA
GR in RA with 3 tons ammo
Med lasers in RA RT LT
4 jumpjets

With speed tweak it runs at 82kph. Does only 5 less dmg than a gauss cat at long range. Does 30 pts of dmg up close with no heat build up or 40 for a full alpha.

It has most of the gauss cat's bite but is far faster and adds jumping ability. It's basically a Falconer minus 1 medium laser. FLC-8R is one of the most OP Inner Sphere mechs in the TT game. Does well in MWO too.

Thinking of putting in a smaller 320xl engine for a little bit more armor and 81kph speed. But the thangs are expensive to replace.

Thank you. That is what I was looking for. My ex bf used to run Falconers in table top I just couldn't recall the name. Do you think it would be worth running AMS?

KeefCheef, on 19 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Running the stock 280XL, my favorite builds for the 3D have been:

1x Gauss (3t ammo)
2x LL
2x MPL
4x JJ
Endo
DHS


or, for a full energy boat (and now that ppc's got buffed!)
2x LL
2x PPC or ERPPC
JJ, Endo, DHS

I don't like running dual gauss in this variant due to hardpoint location/convergence issues

I like that one too. Where do you mount everything?

Edited by Palutena, 19 December 2012 - 06:40 PM.

[shark4179]

quad ac/2s

[Lootee]

Palutena, on 19 December 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Thank you. That is what I was looking for. My ex bf used to run Falconers in table top I just couldn't recall the name. Do you think it would be worth running AMS?

The only things you could really ditch for AMS are the jumpjets, but then you wouldn't be able to poptart snipe. I wish I could fit maybe another half ton or full ton of armor and a couple more heatsinks on, but those jumpjets eat up all the weight. They are 1 ton each on heavy mechs.

[Palutena]

PanchoTortilla, on 19 December 2012 - 07:12 PM, said:

The only things you could really ditch for AMS are the jumpjets, but then you wouldn't be able to poptart snipe. I wish I could fit maybe another half ton or full ton of armor and a couple more heatsinks on, but those jumpjets eat up all the weight. They are 1 ton each on heavy mechs.

How about an engine downgrade from the XL 325 to the XL 310? That would give you 1.5 tons for an AMS and 1 ton ammo. How much speed are you losing though? Is it worth it for the AMS? I just tend to stick an AMS on everything is all.