82 replies to this topic

[Kobura]

Karl Split, on 01 January 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

Gimmie TT jumping or give me death!

The problem is I think they're close to TT jumping. The issue is that the maps if they were converted to TT would be insano-ridiculous. They need to either downscale how monstrously diverse the maps' elevations and levels are, or make the jets (more) useful to suit their map design choices.

[General Solo]

The way things are going appessing the loudest minority you might as well call to COD with mechs
Mechs arnt supposed to be the same thats the BLOODY POINT
You got
Jump mechs
Lasers mechs
Streak mechs
SRM Mechs
Scout Mechs
ECM mechs
Assualt mechs
AC Mechs

And any i missed that gonna kill ya mech
If ya not smart and use whats available to ya
Anything whats availble
If it be a bit too much COD might be a move
But some of us like the complexity


You kill the jump jet back it up a little

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 03 January 2013 - 05:18 AM.

[PANZERBUNNY]

They said it'll be fixed in Jan.

It'll get a buff.

[Kobura]

Here's hoping.

[Jungle Rhino]

blinkin, on 30 December 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

this is the first TT reference i have seen that does not ask for 30m per JJ. it is also one of the rare TT references that actually references specific sources.

i don't like where the evidence points, but good job anyways.

People are quoting 30m as that is the size of a TT hex. The number of hexes you go is equal to your JJ movement allowance. Vertically the elevation levels are increments equal to half the height of an average mech. So elevation 1 will conceal a mech on an elevation 0 hex up to it's torso. Elevation 2 would completely block LoS. Clearly in MWO there are large amounts of Elevation 2/3/4/5 and even larger.

[MaddMaxx]

And if irrc, in TT there was no hovering at all. You went the allowed # of Hexes, A to B, or from Elevation A to B, with zero hovering, based on the # JJ's on-board. So forget the hovering. Many think 4x4 Sync droppers are hurting MWO, (LOL)

If the Dev allow hovering Mechs, MWO will be dead in under a month due to Pop Tarters.

[General Taskeen]

Anyone know at what speed/velocity does a Jumpjet thrust a Mech off the ground? I haven't seen the stat posted anywhere. This is the main thing that needs to change, it should be much faster, expending fuel and reaching intended/rated distance much quicker. It should be the same whether a Mech is jumping vertically or horizontally. They have been boring rocket boosters (are we blasting off into space?) since Closed Beta.

[Tethyss]

I agree with this. It feels like PGI and their support team bend the rules, quoting 'canon' as their supporting evidence.

I see no greater evidence than the rule set, e.g., the Catapult's Movement Points are 4/6/4. That is, I should be able to jump the same distance I can walk in a straight line, roughly.

Currently this is not possible.

[Kobura]

Tethyss, on 03 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

I agree with this. It feels like PGI and their support team bend the rules, quoting 'canon' as their supporting evidence.

I see no greater evidence than the rule set, e.g., the Catapult's Movement Points are 4/6/4. That is, I should be able to jump the same distance I can walk in a straight line, roughly.

Currently this is not possible.

Like I said somewhere else. 40% battletech, 60% PGItech... and rising. I'm not liking this.

[Rawrshuga]

The jump jets simply suck. Or rather they're a total misnomer in how the FPS games have interpreted them. I have no idea why it has been insisted from Mechwarrior onwards that jump jets function like quasi-realistic rocket engines, and not like some sci-fi technology. I'm not sure why they don't allow you to ... well, jump. Do they have to be slow? Why can't they boost you like some out of this world nitrous engine? And just to follow canon, if a 5/8/5 raven can jump 5 hexes in the TT game, why can't my stock Raven 4x get past several meters on full jump fuel?

Honestly if it needs to be slow for balance issues, fine, but then jump fuel ought to last at least 10 seconds, and I should be able to clear the appropriate distance for that setup (150 meters, and 5 elevations (approx 5 stories)). But I think jumpjets ought to be fast--especially since in the TT game, jumping made you seriously difficult to target--so sure, keep the fuel supply low, but I should jet off like a bottlerocket, not slowly move like a real rocket on a launchpad.

We need some of those Gundam style jets man!

[please hold 'realistic' comments, honestly, it's a game. A game where Faster Than Light spaceships carry 100-ton automatons powered by fusion engines, get dropped on a planet, stomp across a battlefield, fire lasers and missiles range with a 'grand' range of 1000 meters. I think realistic flew out the window a long time ago.]

[kapinga]

wether 1 or 5, jj's need more vertical lift , if i cant clear rocks or small objects with my jets theres a prob. DFA is an implemented thing what gos up must come down and if ya can come down on an atlas head , hoorah. but if ya cant get up why pack a jet?. im in the clan Killerbees were a light fast mech clan proud of our mobility , but now were all running heavier mechs cuzz of nerf. Please make us proud to run our lights and give us our vertical lift.
a sting from a killerbee wont kill you but it WILL hurt a little.

[Michel Hatchet]

Cataphract, on 18 December 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

5JJ is suppose to supply a 150m jump range. All JJ are suppose to supply a 30m distance per JJ installed to a maximum of 6 If I remember past MW games and no mech in TT ever had more than 6 either. Given an Atlas is roughly 15-17m+/- tall thats a huge issue for JJ as you indeed should be clearing buildings with that much equipped.

Actually in Table Top the build limit was your lower movement number, in the case of most heavier mechs, 4. Jump jets weighed 0.5 tons each up to a certain weight of mech (I think 55 tons but don't quote me on that) then weighed 1 ton each above that. I don't recall but I think over a certain tonnage they went to 2 tons. Anyway, the limit on an Urban mech (move of 2) was 2 JJ. The spider came with 8 jump jets, the Assasin with 7, just to name two mechs from the 3025 cannon.
If a standard mech was supposed to be 2 levels high, it should require 2 jump jets and a well timed jump to clear it.
All that is according to Table top, which of course, this isn't.

[Kobura]

Michel Hatchet, on 08 January 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

Actually in Table Top the build limit was your lower movement number, in the case of most heavier mechs, 4. Jump jets weighed 0.5 tons each up to a certain weight of mech (I think 55 tons but don't quote me on that) then weighed 1 ton each above that. I don't recall but I think over a certain tonnage they went to 2 tons. Anyway, the limit on an Urban mech (move of 2) was 2 JJ. The spider came with 8 jump jets, the Assasin with 7, just to name two mechs from the 3025 cannon.
If a standard mech was supposed to be 2 levels high, it should require 2 jump jets and a well timed jump to clear it.
All that is according to Table top, which of course, this isn't.

Most of this is incorrect but it's in the right spirit.

Kobura, on 29 December 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__1660585

Too bad the jumps are useless. Just can't do anything with them. They got nerfed into terrible... the worst part is that PGI's math is right, but the maps are ridiculous in their scale. An actual TT battle map of these maps would be a clusterscrew of heights and depths and such. TT JJ would be useless on those maps too if following the maximum JJ elevation rules (can vertically reach half of max long-distance jump) since most mechs would be allowed to rise between three and five elevations (one and a half to two mechs' heights).
__________________________________________

Referencing Total Warfare p53: A unit can jump over and into any hex, regardless of terrain type. If this path crosses a level higher than the sum of the unit’s Jumping MP plus the level of the hex in which the jump started, then the unit cannot make the jump.
(TL;DR is you get your jumping number plus your starting elevation number as a maximum height you can clear)

So it's your starting plus half your long jump capability, which for say the 5-JJ Jenner *should* be 150 meters. Since the Battletech Master Rules/Rules Compendium pre-Total Warfare state a level is about 6m, the Jenner should be able to get 30m straight up into the air.

Frankly that's fairly high. Unfortunately, the maps are epic huge in scale and the jets are simply inadequate for how monstrous the terrain is. I can't even imagine what the tabletop maps for these battlefields would look like.

[Owlfeathers]

Was going to make a thread about this, but you beat me to it. The main place I noticed this is on Forest Colony, where my Raven with 1 Jump Jet used to be able to land atop the big satellite dish and snipe people. However, since the patch, I had to change my configuration to allow for 5 jump jets (maximum), and yet, my jump distance is only capable of reaching just barely halfway up the tower. Also, no more jumping over Assaults and shooting them in the back. I must say that I don't really like this development, because the Jump jets are, quite frankly, almost useless now. What's the point in having them if you can't do anything different except not taking fall damage?

[Chou Senwan]

Owlfeathers, on 09 January 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Was going to make a thread about this, but you beat me to it. The main place I noticed this is on Forest Colony, where my Raven with 1 Jump Jet used to be able to land atop the big satellite dish and snipe people.

How were you jumping up there? From what starting point, I mean? Because I used to try getting up there in my Jenner and could never manage it.

[Owlfeathers]

Chou Senwan, on 09 January 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

How were you jumping up there? From what starting point, I mean? Because I used to try getting up there in my Jenner and could never manage it.

On the highest point nearby, just to the right of the dish from where you spawn. There's a little hill there, and if you time it just right you can hop up. It has to be the absolute best sniping spot in the entire game though. The angle provides cover when you're being shot at, totally counters LRMs, and if if you time it just perfectly again, you can walk forward and perch on the very edge of the dish, which allows you to have a stable point to fire down from. After that, you just move backward and slide down into the dish if you're getting shot at.

edit: I use a Raven 4X, by the way. Don't know if it makes any difference. You can still get up to the halfway ledge though.

Edited by Owlfeathers, 09 January 2013 - 09:31 PM.

[blinkin]

Owlfeathers, on 09 January 2013 - 09:31 PM, said:

On the highest point nearby, just to the right of the dish from where you spawn. There's a little hill there, and if you time it just right you can hop up. It has to be the absolute best sniping spot in the entire game though. The angle provides cover when you're being shot at, totally counters LRMs, and if if you time it just perfectly again, you can walk forward and perch on the very edge of the dish, which allows you to have a stable point to fire down from. After that, you just move backward and slide down into the dish if you're getting shot at.

edit: I use a Raven 4X, by the way. Don't know if it makes any difference. You can still get up to the halfway ledge though.

i have seen a few mechs up there and that was cheesy and absurd. mechs do not need to be able to jump that high, but light mechs should be able to jump over most standard buildings during combat.

[blinkin]

bump

[blinkin]

jump jets are much better now.

thank you.

[Jess Hazen]

jump jets need a visit from the jj fairy.