71 replies to this topic

[blinkin]

i am conflicted atm. i run a catapult c4 with: xl315 engine, endosteel internal structure,14 double heatsinks, 4xartemis srm6, 2xmedium lasers, 6 tons of srm, 4xjump jets. <--expensive 11,027,000cbill. before the patch my repair bills could cost up to 150k. each time i pulled the trigger with my srm it cost 6,500cbill. i was ok with this, it is a good build and as long as i worked hard i could make up for my repair bills and usually make some money, but if i did not help the team enough it could cost me money.

i like making money, but now there is no penalty for me running my 86kph heavy mech that hits for 60 damage per volley. this is unfair to new players who do not have a super expensive mech yet.

i think they should bring back at least some of the bonus for winning or follow world of tanks and double the earnings of everyone on the winning team. as it is now there is little incentive to win especially on assault mode. it is all about going out and blowing up as many enemy mechs as possible.

and as masochistic as it sounds i think they should bring back repair and rearm bills. it means people pick their shots more carefully and you are punished for charging straight down a gun barrel. it also means people won't flood the field with super expensive mechs.

you have taken away all of the risk and now there is just reward, without some risk the game is kind of boring.

• reduces bots
  
• (eventually) balances clan tech
  
• limits number of high end expensive mechs that punish new players that do not have money or a good mech yet
  
• keeps the field mixed between expensive and cheap mechs so that you don't spend all of your time fighting one mech
  
• adds immersion to the game (makes you feel more like a real merc)
  
• brings back the challenge in the game for me

tldr: bring back repair bills.


also i think it would be a good idea to remove concrete win rewards and replace them with multipliers on your in match earnings. (see: world of tanks)

other threads that effectively illustrate the points i am trying to make:
http://mwomercs.com/...40#entry1728840
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

Edited by blinkin, 12 March 2013 - 09:54 AM.

[focuspark]

I hit for 90 per volley (6x SRM6) but never purchased SRM ammo before.

Over all others are benefitting from my having enough ammo to last the match.

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 18 December 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

I hit for 90 per volley (6x SRM6) but never purchased SRM ammo before.

Over all others are benefitting from my having enough ammo to last the match.

but my point is, now there is no disadvantage for having a super expensive mech. that was one of the ways the field was balanced. this will also severely punish new players who do not have the credits to build top of the line mechs.

[focuspark]

OK so you've been grinding for a long time... why should you be punished for having an expensive 'mech? Why would the devs look to remove fun from a game?

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 18 December 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

OK so you've been grinding for a long time... why should you be punished for having an expensive 'mech? Why would the devs look to remove fun from a game?

why should new players be punished because everyone else has played longer and has better mechs.

i want more fresh meat!
i want the risk associated with investing abhorant amounts of money into a single mech!
i want unskilled pilots to be punished harshly for desecrating the seat of my srm cat build!

[Unkn0wn]

With the bills added back it extends the life of the game by having the challenge of trying to keep enough money to fight the next battle and having the thought of "Is it really worth risking all those C-Bills" during each and every match which is where the true joy comes in. Though I think the cost shouldn't be as severe as it used to be so the new players won't be completely doomed. I think it would be also a good idea to add free repairs and ammo to the cadet bonus which would really help those new players if you get more C-bills when using a non trial mech again.

[blinkin]

Unkn0wn, on 18 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

With the bills added back it extends the life of the game by having the challenge of trying to keep enough money to fight the next battle and having the thought of "Is it really worth risking all those C-Bills" during each and every match which is where the true joy comes in. Though I think the cost shouldn't be as severe as it used to be so the new players won't be completely doomed. I think it would be also a good idea to add free repairs and ammo to the cadet bonus which would really help those new players if you get more C-bills when using a non trial mech again.

it seems there are very few players who are interested in helping newbies. it all seems to be about whether "i got mine" or not.

more new players means more income for piranha, which means more content and support for this great game.

[Valten]

blinkin, on 18 December 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

why should new players be punished because everyone else has played longer and has better mechs.

i want more fresh meat!
i want the risk associated with investing abhorant amounts of money into a single mech!
i want unskilled pilots to be punished harshly for desecrating the seat of my srm cat build!

There not being punished, they are being given a motivation to work harder. Nathan Hale once said, "That which we achieve too easily we esteam to lightly..." If we had creds and assault mechs to every rookie as he walks through the door then what reason does he have to continue playing? It's like playing an RPG and starting with a max level character, there is no longer a goal. I say keep it the way it is. Some of the most fun I have had was working my way up to being able to buy my Atlas D-DC with C-Bills. It was fun it was challanging and there was a true sense of accomplishment when I got there.

God I hate this generation and their gimee gimee attitude!!!

[nuzgundam]

Valten, on 19 December 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

There not being punished, they are being given a motivation to work harder. Nathan Hale once said, "That which we achieve too easily we esteam to lightly..." If we had creds and assault mechs to every rookie as he walks through the door then what reason does he have to continue playing? It's like playing an RPG and starting with a max level character, there is no longer a goal. I say keep it the way it is. Some of the most fun I have had was working my way up to being able to buy my Atlas D-DC with C-Bills. It was fun it was challanging and there was a true sense of accomplishment when I got there.

God I hate this generation and their gimee gimee attitude!!!

Right, see, I hate this, and I hate that I have to make my first about this, but:

The fun in this game is not at all about seeing your creds thrown away at the end of a match because of repair/rearm. The fun of this game is to run a giant robot that you designed around a battlefield with a team of people who also have custom builds as you work together against a team of other people with custom builds. The fun in this game is making and executing a plan, and hoping that your plan is better than your plan. The fun is in seeing those amazing moments when a lone mech manages to eke out a win against more players after your plan failed.

But the most fun comes in the MechBay, where you are allowed to build your masterpiece of destruction, where you have a blank canvas and numerous options. And considering the prices on some of the upgrades (note: I'm not complaining about the pricing of parts, I think that's actually pretty good), the punitive costs of the R&R were terrible. What's more, R&R leads to people choosing out standardized builds. "Oh, so the Streakcat does really well and can generally make it through a match? Yeah, so I guess I'll build to that." It cuts out experimentation in builds to help save the person money that shouldn't be lost in the first place.

So here's the thing: I'm not saying R&R doesn't have a place in the game, but I am saying that that place shouldn't be the default modes. Likewise, the ridiculous choice to reduce c-bill acquirement in the Trial mechs was a terrible one, as it only hinders newbies who really need to get to the mech building aspect much quicker if you have any hope of maintaining their interest.

This isn't "gimme gimme", this is "let me get into the meat of the game", and I for one am all too happy to see it happen.

(Plus there's the entire thing that rewards at the end of missions are much more directly tied to performance, so you're likely only making as much as you used to in a match as you would have been with R&R, maybe slightly more. The changes haven't been too drastic.)

Edited by nuzgundam, 19 December 2012 - 11:08 AM.

[focuspark]

Valten, on 19 December 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

There not being punished, they are being given a motivation to work harder. Nathan Hale once said, &quot;That which we achieve too easily we esteam to lightly...&quot; If we had creds and assault mechs to every rookie as he walks through the door then what reason does he have to continue playing? It's like playing an RPG and starting with a max level character, there is no longer a goal. I say keep it the way it is. Some of the most fun I have had was working my way up to being able to buy my Atlas D-DC with C-Bills. It was fun it was challanging and there was a true sense of accomplishment when I got there.

God I hate this generation and their gimee gimee attitude!!!

^^ this.

Do you really think new players in WoW are made Level 90 (or whatever the cap is) or that new players in EVE are given a Capital Ship? No they start at square one and progress.

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 19 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

^^ this.

Do you really think new players in WoW are made Level 90 (or whatever the cap is) or that new players in EVE are given a Capital Ship? No they start at square one and progress.

no one is suggesting we hand out a free fully decked out assault to anyone. what i want is for players to have to work hard to sustain a high end mech. 11,000,000cbill catapults should be rare on the field not the majority.

and there is a difference between working hard; and being brutally punished because your first mech is not anywhere near as strong as anyone else on the field.

do you know why the term grinding was invented in those games you mentioned? because you have to work <-(see that word) for hours or even days before you can be good enough to finally play the game with everyone else. i do not want that for mechwarrior there should be no permanent elite class of pilots.

skill is what should control EVERY players value on the field and very little else.

Edited by blinkin, 19 December 2012 - 03:42 PM.

[Zippyuk]

So if im understanding your point correct, you want repair and ammo costs back to stop new players getting owned by everyone elses super mechs?

I sort of agree here, new players will be put off if they feel there mech is usless in a fight, and i like the fact i can take my cheep lasor Cata into battle and peform well, or take my more expensive Atlas, peform better but may not make any cbills due to repair and ammo costs.

Also people are calling this a mech sim, whos mechanic works for free and can magic up spair parts? if so can they magic me a mad cat pretty please

Edited by Zippyuk, 19 December 2012 - 03:38 PM.

[blinkin]

Zippyuk, on 19 December 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

So if im understanding your point correct, you want repair and ammo costs back to stop new players getting owned by everyone elses super mechs?

I sort of agree here, new players will be put off if they feel there mech is usless in a fight, and i like the fact i can take my cheep lasor Cata into battle and peform well, or take my more expensive Atlas, peform better but may not make any cbills due to repair and ammo costs.

Also people are calling this a mech sim, whos mechanic works for free and can magic up spair parts? if so can they magic me a mad cat pretty please

exactly.

i know how frustrating it gets in games when i die over and over again. if i die because the weapons the enemy has are just better than mine by leaps and bounds it makes me not want to play the game any more.

if once every 10 or 20 matches a hellish beast rises from the depths and obliterates your team, you will be startled, confused, or scared. if every match all of the mechs are unbeatable monsters then you will think the game sucks and is unfair.

besides having harsh penalties for destroying my mech tought me to be a much better pilot. repair and reload will keep pilots from becoming lazy and stupid.

[focuspark]

blinkin, on 19 December 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

no one is suggesting we hand out a free fully decked out assault to anyone. what i want is for players to have to work hard to sustain a high end mech. 11,000,000cbill catapults should be rare on the field not the majority.

and there is a difference between working hard; and being brutally punished because your first mech is not anywhere near as strong as anyone else on the field.

do you know why the term grinding was invented in those games you mentioned? because you have to work <-(see that word) for hours or even days before you can be good enough to finally play the game with everyone else. i do not want that for mechwarrior there should be no permanent elite class of pilots.

skill is what should control EVERY players value on the field and very little else.

Yeah... that works until they break open their wallet and purchase MC. I've purchased 3 mechs with MC and it's a tiny amount of real cash. I could easily buy one of every variant without having played the game. I do not believe you understand on MW:O's F2P plan works. Your grind for XP not CB. CB is there to avoid needing MC, that's the only reason it's there. The fact that PGIGP removed R&R means they're not money grubbing ********.

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 19 December 2012 - 10:56 PM, said:

Yeah... that works until they break open their wallet and purchase MC. I've purchased 3 mechs with MC and it's a tiny amount of real cash. I could easily buy one of every variant without having played the game. I do not believe you understand on MW:O's F2P plan works. Your grind for XP not CB. CB is there to avoid needing MC, that's the only reason it's there. The fact that PGIGP removed R&R means they're not money grubbing ********.

i have a founders tag and i used the mc to buy my first 2 mechs (more like 1 and 1/2) the other 6 i own i worked for (and most of my second mech) even with the repair and reload. besides vv

focuspark, on 19 December 2012 - 11:17 AM, said:

^^ this.

Do you really think new players in WoW are made Level 90 (or whatever the cap is) or that new players in EVE are given a Capital Ship? No they start at square one and progress.

now you are arguing with yourself.

it was not difficult to make money before, in fact now i make less money even without repair and reload (on average). after RR before i would usually make 100k and up to 200k, now i mostly make 60k and up to 120k.

if someone is stupid enough to spend real money just so they can be a crap pilot in an expensive mech, then i thank them for supporting a game i really like. most people will not keep spending money over and over again on an expensive mech they don't know how to pilot. so my point still mostly stands high end expensive mechs will remain rare.

new players should not be forced to pay money just so they can actually play with everyone else. new players should be allowed to play the game with an ok chance of winning WITHOUT having to commit money to it, then once they like the game they might invest in it. as opposed to playing an unfair game and quiting after a few matches where they are the dead weight in the room, without ever spending any money.

and some basic info about the game:
most functional in game items are bought with cbill:weapons, ammo, support parts, mechs.
most unnecessary items that don't effect the game (with the exception of secondary prices on mechs, hero mechs, and premium time) are bought with mc: paint jobs, cockpit bobble heads, christmas lights, urban mech with top hat <-see a pattern here?

this is why they are not money grubbing. so your comment about cbill replacing mc is total crap.

Edited by blinkin, 19 December 2012 - 11:27 PM.

[blinkin]

bump because the current economy has several problems.

[Tempest1212]

LOL. That is all.

[Joanna Conners]

This makes it no different than any prior online MechWarrior experience. I have no problem with it.

[blinkin]

Demona, on 20 December 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

This makes it no different than any prior online MechWarrior experience. I have no problem with it.

i would like this to be better than the past games as much as possible. i want a mech simulator with a persistant campaign where keeping your mechs in functioning order is actually a concern.

i want to feel like a mercenary when i play this game. if you are at the top you should have to work hard to maintain your status atop the worm pile. i do not want to see pilots get lazy just because they got enough money for a good mech.

[blinkin]

bump because the economy is brokem atm