345 replies to this topic

[MaxllmuS]

If someone want hardcore game lets make harcore option like in diablo or in day z etc.1 mech, 1 pilot. Die once. make new account and get new mech,(also can add 10 years at pilot academy).Like in real life in universe of battletech.
Economy good to clan and houses not for 1 pilot who OWNS???? 5-10 mech??? Where real bettletech pilot store em in pocket?

Also
If you want repair and rearm back like it was before, you get:
Lots of trial mech in maches.
Lots of 75% rearmed and repaired mech.
Lots of cheap mech.
It is mechwarior you want?

Why army of any county get lots of money.Because you cant be econom at war.
War machines tanks,jets,helicopters cant be loaded with bad old ammo or fuel on 1\2.
Because at war every second, every bullet count.

Mechwarior its regular FPS first of all its simulator like silent hunter or IL2, all this cheap farming mech make it something like WOW go add some raid boss and drop EP PPP+3 heat +2 dmg from em? No dont want?

My opinion mech must be equiped not from point cheap\expensive. But from point better battle effectivnes,surviability etc. it must be mech that win battles not that just stay alive and die cheap.

Yes there is need to be drawback for dying.Must be bonus for win.But this is all. If i want play on laser mech only thing i must think how much heatsink i need.If i want to play on lrm mech i must think how much ammo i buy.

[Deathz Jester]

I think it should return, but not the way it was implemented before...

[SerpentrasD]

BoomDog, on 18 December 2012 - 06:49 PM, said:

Two reasons why this was a good idea.

1. People can now play the mech they want to play when trying to make cbills.

2. It removes the dramatic disadvantage solo pug players have when trying to make cbills. It didn't matter how good the player is, if he is fighting a 4 man team, odds are that he's going to lose.

Haha I never lost money so what does this say to you? And no I dont use the 75% free rearm. So I guess you really know some bad players.
You know that it took me now much more time to get Cbills? And I was one of them who get out of the match with some damage and must pay overall for maintenance around 30-70k. With this build what I am using now I WOULD make much ******* more because I dont use ammo anymore and I am just the guy who snipe some mechs out of the game. I would do much more than ******* average 100k with RNR
Tell me how can I only earn with 891 damage 935 xp and one kill and 6 assists 119k ?
OR only 153k with 1225 damage and 1045 xp 1 kill and 5 assists? Both times I just take a 4xPPC and 2xsrm4 Stalker and guess what I only had scratches on my paint.
But what the hell I rather prefer RNR with less money because that is what mechwarrior is all about , about c-bill efficiency.
Without repair and ream costs and expensive maintenance of XL mechs it feel just like a ordinary shooter.

CYBRN4CR, on 23 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Before the patch who would pay to upgrade to Artemis and consciously continue to either pay to fully rearm or ride the 75% free ammo knowing the ammo costs were cutting 60-90k out of your paycheck?

I done that without 75% crap and sorry but 60-90k? What do you shooting? Walls/Buildings?

CYBRN4CR, on 23 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Before the patch how many of you were tired of people riding the 75% free ammo for everything?

Doesn't bother me either or do you watch all the time youtube videos where some peps just dont rearm?

CYBRN4CR, on 23 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Before the patch how many of you were tired of seeing or writing threads complaining about losing money in matches even after trying to play smart - to be immediately countered by L2P or you used FF+Artemis+XL etc?

I never saw one ?

CYBRN4CR, on 23 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Before the patch how many of you were tired of running or seeing others run trial mechs because they earned more money than mechs you paid to own?

Who cares they walk in trials they die like a trail, easy targets and money for you.

CYBRN4CR, on 23 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

FF is now an upgrade worth considering on mechs heavier than a light for that last drop of performance - if you have the space.

Like before it is useless on the big ones the only mech I have with this is the jenner. And I equip that just after it comes out, also the xl in the jenner and what? Enough money for me.

CYBRN4CR, on 23 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

ES and DHS are still no-brainer upgrades just like before. Standard engines are still viable for the survivability.

HUH? you never build xl mechs and dhs mechs with rnr or what? I just switch from xl engines back to normal because I realize that dhs with normal is cheaper but dhs need overall more maintenance and Assaults with dhs is still no option.

CYBRN4CR, on 23 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

The only cost to owning a weapon now is the cost to own the weapon/ammo in the first place, and how effective it is at getting you kills/assists.

And that is bad.

CYBRN4CR, on 23 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

But if you guys really want the immersion factor? Here's the simplest fix that shouldn't change the above. Just have all owned mechs be shown the R&R screen, but there is no option except to "Accept" the bill, and you get to keep the earned end of match rewards as your "Net Earnings/Profit."

Simple, easy and purely cosmetic. Done.

You forget that the economy factor was always the thing in mechwarrior. It is not JUST cosmetic it is the fuqing thing.
All people who want that rnr thing back in this fread want it because THAT little thing what you called cosmetic.
Do it otherwise, no auto repair or rearm.
Just do it this way:
No full repaired mech cant drop into the battle, no 25% repairs for you no repairs at all you must pay for everything.
No ammo loaded? HA it is your fault you wont have ammo than in this match, no free rearm at all pay for what you want.
Expensive stuff should be expensive in maintenance. Why do you think dont drop all TT players with xls and damn Assaults?
Before patch I saw plenty lights and mediums and some heavys and some assaults.
Now maybe a light , some medium, more heavys and damn plenty assaults.
And there is a thing who I dont get it my AWS was one of the cheapest and best mechs to farming money for me so why the heck are there so much assault? Every of them cant play or why cant they afford a Assault before?

MaxllmuS, on 23 December 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Also
If you want repair and rearm back like it was before, you get:
Lots of trial mech in maches.
Lots of 75% rearmed and repaired mech.
Lots of cheap mech.
It is mechwarior you want?

What is a cheap mech in your eyes ? A swayback with 9 small lasers and std engine or what?
Let me remind you that those can kill anything with no problem?
What is the problem of trail mechs?

Edited by SerpentrasD, 23 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

MustrumRidcully, on 23 December 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

And I can also assure you, an XL Engine on pretty much all of the assault mechs in this game is more a liability than a boon. Unless you're really driving an LRM boat, you cannot afford the vulnerability. On a lagshielded light or medium mech - no problem. On a Catapult with tiny side torsos - no problem. On a barn-wide Awesome or a Hunchback with a BFG in his shoulder that everyone wants to target? No, liability.

Also, if my employer hires me for the job and I bring an Atlas, I expect to be paid appropriately. Or does he want me to take my cheapest mech? Do you want to always team up with the people using the cheapest mech possible?

It is always a risk to use XL engine and be killed through the side torso, but its just as much of a risk to shoot your enemy side torso instead of central in hope he has an XL engine. Personally, I would always go for more speed and the ability to turn both legs and torso more quickly thus being able to give my opponent different parts of my mech and spread the damage.

As for a job ... payment you'll get is stated in contract, what mech you bring is your own decision. You can bring a mech with the best equipement, fulfill contract easier, pay more for repairs and get less profit. Or you can bring a mech with worse equipement, have more difficulties fulfilling a contract but pay less for RNR and get more profit. Without meta-game, faction payments and contracts this talk has no point tho, as I said, if RNR bills are coming back with community warfare then its fine, if not then its lame. In open beta I suppose we can live with no RNR. But for me one of true skills of a mechwarrior is the ability to defeat much better mechs piloting a tin can.

[Phoebe]

There are two possible ways to do a reward system:
- No loss if you play bad but lot of rewenue is from how well you play (like now)
- Lot of money losed from playing bad but a good base price not related to performance (like before)

If lot of money is related to performance AND there are lot of loss if you play bad, casual and new player will simply lose more money than what they get and quit the game.

If someone don't play really good and still want to win some game he would need to use better and more costly engine/weapons, making this a pay for win game because he can only afford it with premium..

That said, I like it as it is now.. Only would add some "deploy weight cost" so that using medium mechs is rewarding as using an assault because assault cost more to deploy..

In community warfare some kind of R&R would be ok too, but not with the prices used before (110k to rearm my catapult was just lol...)

[SerpentrasD]

PhoenixFire55, on 24 December 2012 - 02:14 AM, said:

But for me one of true skills of a mechwarrior is the ability to defeat much better mechs piloting a tin can.

+1

Phoebe, on 24 December 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

If someone don't play really good and still want to win some game he would need to use better and more costly engine/weapons, making this a pay for win game because he can only afford it with premium..

I only play eve what can count on a half f2p and wot. And I asure you that in wot you must have some farming tanks or premium otherwise you dont can run with the biger tanks or faster tanks. The same could you say to eve, you cant fly with your PVP ship to make money. Whats wrong with that system?
Are the Premium mechs not made for this?
I only had one mech where I really made not so much money when he was badly damaged but that was it and it was only because the centurion d runs with a 360xl and 2x artimes srm 6.

Edited by SerpentrasD, 24 December 2012 - 04:39 AM.

[Undergoose]

Bring it back, PLEASE.

Make people have to think about their loadout instead of just spamming LRM boats and expensive equipment.

You've effectively negated the ability to play the mid-level mechs with any great success.

Increase the C-Bills to where they were and let ME decide what I'm going to spend my hard earned credits on.

For those that like having the creative side of the game just spoonfed to them, create some sort of 'junior' mode. Let the rest of us play real Battletech.

Those of us that like to think a little when building and launching (and typically the type that has both the ability and willingness to spend money on your game) are losing interest.

[HarmAssassin]

Notice in the above poll that bringing back RnR is winning the poll by a 2 to 1 margin. Let's hope the Dev's are paying attention.

And before someone tried arguing the math (and embarrassing themselves), remember you have to add up the number of responses from all the "yes" options and compare them to all the "no" options.

Edited by HarmAssassin, 24 December 2012 - 08:28 AM.

[Grey Black]

While the R&R system was horribly broken* in the previous implementation, I do think it should make a return to MWO. However, I also feel that it should not be reimplemented until CW is implemented.

As is, we are all lone wolves at the moment: we all have to take care of our own personal mech(s) and smash things without regard for house or merc alliegance. Many of us, however, do have a personal alliegance to a given house, so when CW is implemented, we would be signing up with a given house. For those of us who do sign up, I could see us being given a choice of mechs (trial mechs, you could say) that we would use free of charge for the honor of the house, though each house would have different units available: I could see the Jenner being Kurita only or the Raven 3L being Liao only, for example. This choice could be modified for a given number of cbills or we could buy a mech for our own purposes on our army salary.

However, being a Merc or Lone Wolf, we would have to take care of our mechs and keep them in top working condition. As such, if you wanted to become a Merc/Lone Wolf, you would have to buy your mech, keep your mech running, pay the R&R costs, much like a real Merc would. I see it as the difference between the MW2: Mercenaries two campaign modes: you can either be a Merc commander (keeping your unit up and running, paying the costs, etc.) or an enlisted man in the Merc unit that can't pick his own contracts and only does whatever missions the merc unit picks. This would make signing up with the various Houses an attractive option (No R&R costs? I'm in!) for new players and, for people who pick up the experience and know-how necessary, the Mercs could pay their R&R costs, pick up contracts for the highest bidder and have people pay for their goodies. While Mercs have the potential to make more money, House units would have a more stable income (perhaps Mercs would have the old system of income whereas house units would have the current).

Watcha think on this?

[Deadoon]

HarmAssassin, on 24 December 2012 - 08:27 AM, said:

Notice in the above poll that bringing back RnR is winning the poll by a 2 to 1 margin. Let's hope the Dev's are paying attention.

And before someone tried arguing the math (and embarrassing themselves), remember you have to add up the number of responses from all the "yes" options and compare them to all the "no" options.

Yet those who want it back cannot decide on how would best make it work, hence the grand suggestion of the 3 level system, 100% rnr for lone wolves(pay everything, but get payed more, due to no mediator between them and client), 25% rnr for mercs(company pays for some of the rnr, rest is out of thier pay, but still get payed quite a bit), and 0%rnr for house players, they get the free ride, but do not get payed anywhere near as much.

[Kadassa]

I'm kind of neutral on the whole R&R bit I mean shure actually repairing and rearming stuff add a small touch of realism...but it made having certain peices of equipment VERY expensive. In fact the two major things that changed with this was making XLengines and FF armor viable options seeing as it took the repair costs -although using XL engines still has its drawbacks but FF is pretty much a given on certain mechs now. And I did have several bugs to deal with when it came to repairing them which are gone now. SO I guess its just personal prefrence I don't really see it affecting gameplay that much...just people being more willing to spend C-bills for all the fancy equipment that wasn't cost effective with R&R in

[Valore]

Bit mixed about it.

Before the change to remove RNR, I would never repair equipment or rearm ammo if I was running something like a Streak Cat. Doing this, I would earn about 180K a match with premium bonus, after costs.

Now I earn about the same on average every match.

I like the current system slightly better, because it allows me to play how I like. I don't have to worry about wrecking myself for the sake of the team, because if my efforts ensure we win, I stand to gain. I don't have to restrict what I play, since high ammo builds don't dent my enjoyment by making me cough up more money for them.

This is a lot more fun.

I wouldn't mind being punished for stupid play. But the RNR system wasn't doing that at all, it punished you in a rather arbitrary and unfair way.

Imagine you're in a Merc Corp, and you're an LRM expert, while your lance mates all run lasers.

Would you feel it was any way fair, if at the end of the day, you took home less pay because your role required more raw materiel to do your job and you got billed for it?

So yeah. I like things the way they are, but wouldn't mind if RNR was reimplemented, as long as they did it in a more clever way.

Edited by Valore, 25 December 2012 - 12:43 AM.

[Kemosobe]

I only just realized that repair/rearm was removed and came on to make sure I didn't miss something like a free repair/rearm Christmas thing or something as I have not played in a few weeks. I feel this just drags this game down a level. If they are doing this while they fix ECMs to actually be a fair piece of equipment, then what ever. But if this is how the game will remain, might as well go play a different game as this is obviously not MechWarrior.

[BlackArab]

I think it should be brought back to some degree if not fully returned to what it was.
This will ensure people fight within a group and not go wondering off in any direction getting caught up in a fire fight with a mess of enemy mechs all alone hence contributing to the loss of resourses for the team due to their stupidity.
Of course people should play the way they want but it should come at a price if they fail. I think this should a fundamental part of the game play.

infact I would go further; no one allowed in a medium mech until they amass certain amount of experience in a light mech. No body allowed in a heavy until they had gained a certain amount of experience in a medium.

Edited by BlackArab, 25 December 2012 - 02:29 PM.

[Nik Reaper]

I feel R&R should return, but it should be a small part of your winnings even if you get totaled, and there should be a cash bonus for surviving a match.
With repairs as they were you would always worry about being in the red or feeling that you made no progress, unless you play with a good team, are a ace or have the devils luck, and that did keep me personally from having fun in the game, as it was too high a price.
Rather than a penalty it's much better to think about it as a bonus, the less you get banged up the more you make, BUT only if you know you'll never be set back and will always at least make some progress. You will find that denying a sizable bonus is just as effective as punishing with taking away cbills, but much easier to accept and it still promotes the goal of R&R, take as little damage as you can but don't cower from the action.

[MavRCK]

Stonefalcon, on 18 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

I've found that since the new patch has come in I've been making about 60-70k less than when repairs and rearms were in. PGI says this is about right on the average but it's not.

The figures were using now are pretty much based on having your mech blown up every match. What about those people who took care of their mech, thought things through and came away from most battles with a 0-10k repair bill while making 250-280k?

But like all things meant for good people abused the system, I admit to never rearming my Artemis missile boat and instead just equipping more ammo. I never liked the 75% free re-arm and thought it was rather silly to fork out an extra 180-200k to rearm my mech every match when I can pay one time fees of 60k per tonne and never have to pay that again.

I rather liked the repair and rearm scheme, I know a lot of people did, we took care of our mechs and the mechs took care of us, we fought with thought and it showed in the money we made every match.

But it's obvious that something needed to be done to stop a number of issues, that's fine. With the current auto repair taking place gone are the days of people not repairing their mech and jumping into battle after battle suiciding.

I think repairs automatically occurring is right but I don't think it's fair to cost us 60-70k per match to "force" a repair that might have only been 1 Tonne of armour. I think this could have been better achieved for us to receive the old amount of money but after every match have a window coming up saying how much it cost to repair/rearm your mech and force it out.

From what I have read so far regarding repairs it seems it is out the window never to return, personally i think it's a step backwards.

What do you think?

I agree with OP.

I make about 130-160k per match vs 220-240k per match. I always auto-repaired.. the rearm is costing much more than it did previously -- 80-90k now vs 30-60k.

Inflation!?

[Alilua]

It was a good idea, but it was just not implemented well at all. I feel like a more fleshed out meta game would need to be created before this be put back in.

[sirjackinthebox]

Just gonna put it out ther as a Founder Pilot, if the repairs and ammo costs dont come back or are not at least in final release, I and im sure several other in my unit will discontinue MWO and go back to MW-Mercs...
As BETA, We have and will continue to tolerat changes and tweaks with the idea things are comming to gether to emplimented as a whole in release, we expect to have to pay for damages we allow to happen and to have mechs reamed with ammunition we expend, we also expect others to have to pay for ther neglagence that leads to damages to ther mechs and ammo they carelessly expend in trying to deal damage to us, we are supporters of carefull planed game play, and have worked hard as a unit to maintain this with all new recruts to our unit, we have our gripes and negitive views on the system thus far but learn to adapt to it for this is BETA we understand this but... we will not tolerate catering to those that refuse or can't get the hang of or learn the system as it is or adapts to become as we mark new milestones in the game we have grown to love years before MWO and thus far...

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

^ +1

This is Battletech with a lot of hardcore fans. I would hate to see BT put aside for $$$ from casual no-brainers.

Yet this is Beta and like I said, RnR is not the most important thing at this point (I think the devs think that too not having a premade topic for it) and hope we will see the return of the rudimentary financing.

[AlanEsh]

Where is my "just turn repairs back on" option?