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Apoc1138, on 22 May 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:
I'm not attacking you, sorry, I don't know where you got this impression from.
You do seem to be the most vocal advocate of RnR in this thread though so I picked up on a couple of your posts and responded to them in a jokey fashion.
I'm not trying to be moderate either, you seem to have one extreme of view point on the subject and in a light hearted attempt to draw attention to the fallacy of some of your arguments I am deliberately posting a light hearted and opposite reaction to you.
Obviously I'm not going to post at people who, although their reasoning is wonky, agree with the basic premise of my point of view - that we tried RnR and it caused more problems generally than it was really worth. The game is better for everyone without RnR. RnR did not make people better players, it also did not make people more cautious players, it just punished people for trying to learn the game.
i apologize for the response then, but in my experience your jokes are very often the real full force arguments of some of the people.
i have gotten crusty over the months of trying to defend my positions. there are more than a few out there who have decided that EVERYONE hated RR just because they did. luckily there has been some success in this thread as far as the two sides trying to at least understand each other.
MustrumRidcully, on 22 May 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:
I challenge this claim. I did not see the diversity change much. I suppose there were more trial mechs around back then, suicide-farming or just people trying to make ahonest buck without being screwed over.
If people really have to care about their R&R upkeep, they will do what they do now for all other stuff - min/max. They pick the cheapest builds to run and still be effective. You might be lucky and not see many PPC/Gauss Assaults. But you see in exchange just a bunch of STD Engine Jenners or HBK-4Ps that use only Medum Lasers.
And that is assuming that AFK Farming and SUicide Trials are not an option in a new R&R system. The latter were extremely toxic - it just takes 1 or 2 out of 8 players to ruin a whole match for everyone that came for the stompy robot fights. And even if you don't have the AFK Farmers and Suiciders, you still have the "Power-Down-In-Corner" people that hide the moment it doesn't look like this fight goes well and will just be a lot of repair cost with very little income.
Diversity is still something else. A fun gameplay dynamic would be something else, too.
And of course, Elo might become totally useless, because if people really switch between cheap-to-run builds and expensive "cheese" builds, then their ELO drops and drops while using the cheap-to-run-builds, and switchingto the expensive and powerful builds suddenly means an extra-boosted success rate.
If people really have to care about their R&R upkeep, they will do what they do now for all other stuff - min/max. They pick the cheapest builds to run and still be effective. You might be lucky and not see many PPC/Gauss Assaults. But you see in exchange just a bunch of STD Engine Jenners or HBK-4Ps that use only Medum Lasers.
And that is assuming that AFK Farming and SUicide Trials are not an option in a new R&R system. The latter were extremely toxic - it just takes 1 or 2 out of 8 players to ruin a whole match for everyone that came for the stompy robot fights. And even if you don't have the AFK Farmers and Suiciders, you still have the "Power-Down-In-Corner" people that hide the moment it doesn't look like this fight goes well and will just be a lot of repair cost with very little income.
Diversity is still something else. A fun gameplay dynamic would be something else, too.
And of course, Elo might become totally useless, because if people really switch between cheap-to-run builds and expensive "cheese" builds, then their ELO drops and drops while using the cheap-to-run-builds, and switchingto the expensive and powerful builds suddenly means an extra-boosted success rate.
like you said people will choose the cheapest mech builds that effectively make them money. people have varying levels of skill with different mechs. so the mechs that people will be most cost efficient in will vary quite a bit with skill, and will do so more the more balanced the game is. with the current system any build or design that is even slightly better will naturally be chosen over all others, so any imbalance is greatly emphasized.
i don't have a good response for the power and cower issue, but AFK and bot farming are a direct result of match win/loss awards. i for one think that those should be removed entirely and should be replaced with a multiplier on your actual match awards. if you didn't spot targets do damage or try to cap something then you shouldn't earn anything.
also part of my issue is i don't get a sense of ownership over my mechs anymore. back in the old days i had to feed and water them to keep them in good health. they don't feel as real now. either we own these mechs or we don't, and right now even though we may have bought them somebody else is taking care of them.
