245 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Mahws, on 27 December 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

I didn't say that it's completely useless, it's certainly more than capable of getting kills and dealing damage. As it is though it is inferior in terms of practical function to the other ballistic weapons. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying no one should use it, I'm not a fan of minmaxing super builds either, but it's not a weapon I'd recommend to a new player. It's in the same category as a Small Pulse, a good player can get kills and deal damage with it, but at the moment it's simply not as good as the alternatives.

There are some build-level circumstances where it's ideal too, where that extra ton and crit slot are important/unobtainable, but yeah... I'm really not a fan either, other than it looking awesome.

In fact, that's one of it's best bonuses (or, perhaps drawbacks): It's dramatic. You *NOTICE* getting hammered by an LB10x, and people pretty much always react.

I'd always rather hammer someone with an AC/10, where you're going to do much more damage to just one spot - but that's me. I hate lasers for the same reason, and the Medium and Large lasers are arguably the best weapon (by the numbers) in the game.

De La Fresniere, on 27 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

I've tried Gauss and 4xML quite often, and while it works pretty well, I never get results as good as the 4xLL build.

I didn't really like Gauss and 4xML either, honestly. I found it required you to be too close. I've found that if I'm running Gauss, I want to be able to hammer at range for a bit first, to be sure I get good return on my investment. Get into a brawl, into MLAS range, and that Gauss becomes a vulnerability to some extent.

Quote

Funny, I'd never fully realized how a player's strengths and weaknesses could have such an impact on which builds are viable or aren't (beyond what the mech can support), but thinking about it now... it's a big factor.

It's something I've spent some time pondering. You see a lot of discussion of the math of weapons, and mechs. But one of the best aspects of MWO is how differently some things behave in game, and how an individual players' strengths and weaknesses effect that. It's much like the MLAS/MPLAS debate: If you've got steady aim, the MLAS is unquestionably superior. If you can never hit anything with more than half the beam, though, the MPLAS is a far more effective weapon doing nearly three times the (effective) dps, for only one extra ton.

This allows some builds to be quite effective when they are generally viewed as junk. One could argue this is poor skill compensating for itself - better than nothing, but inherently limited. For example, the MPLAS player vs the MLAS player; the MLAS is more efficient, and in the hands of someone who can hit accurately is going to beat the accurate MPLAS player. However, these playstyle differences cascade into all sorts of other differences - increasingly varied mech loadouts, different piloting methods. Along this example, the MLAS player needs to stay "on target" longer, whereas the MPLAS player can me subtly more mobile, bringing his torso on target for half the time, taking getting full benefit from shots of opportunity that wouldn't be possible with the longer-firing MLAS. Practice hones these differences, leading to much more interesting gameplay overall. (*Not to side in the pulse-or-not debate as I don't like either, just as a random example)

Well, I'm rambling. It's just something I really like about MWO, the very different weapons and chassis behaviors.

[NRP]

I went with the XL360. I could have used the extra 1.5 tons for other stuff, but flying around larger mechs at 97.2 kph is fun as hell. Right now I'm running XL360, 2x MPL, 2x ML, AC/2, and AMS. Hittin and runnin! No kills yet, but lots of damage and assists

Oh well, this will make grinding for an XL350 more fun..

[Pr8Dator]

I've all of the Cataphracts as well as Fang and Flame and I found that if I run Fang and Flame at 81kph or lesser, you might as well use a Cataphract 2X which gives you more of the same weapons at the same speed and more armor (gauss + 3 MPL + 2 SRM6). Thats why I am very persistent in using only XL360 and XL350 engine on Fang and Flame. Anything slower would really defeat the point of using dragons.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 28 December 2012 - 01:56 AM.

[Fergrim]

Just keeping this topic alive and wanted to share my most recent flame build. Please feel free to criticize so I can continue tweaking.

Engine: std 300 (81 kph)
Ferro/Endo
394 armor
12 Double Heatsinks

LA: 2 medium lasers
RA: 2 medium lasers
CT: SRM 6
LT: AC5
RL: 2 tons srm 6 ammo
LL: 2 tons AC5 ammo

In the end, the stats become..

81 kph
60/60 tons
40 firepower
1.1 heat efficiency

4 medium lasers in group 1 (arms)
AC5 and SRM6 in group 2 (torso)

There are several things I like about this build; it helps mitigate the effects of losing a single arm, as doing so leaves me with 2 medium lasers, AC5 and Srm6. More than enough weapons to continue fighting without a hitch.

The speed of the dragon is relatively high for a 60 tonner at 81 kph and at 394 armor you are 8 points away from having max, meaning you are quite difficult to put down.

The four medium lasers stand together as a formidable source of damage while the 12 double heat sinks prevent you from having to deal with overheating with the lightest of heat management.

Any thoughts?

Edit: And I'm pretty well set on dropping an XL in it too when I have the cash. I'm just not sure what size yet,

Edited by Fergrim, 28 December 2012 - 04:04 AM.

[NRP]

I put an XL320 in my Flame, and my top speed is around 86 kph if I remember correctly. This is barely enough imo. Although the XL320 allows me to pack more armor and firepower, it doesn't seem as survivable as it did with the XL360. Everyone was right in suggesting either an XL350 or XL360, with the 350 probably being the best compromise. With that said, I am so glad I bought a Flame. It has been a real money maker so far, and it just looks cool.

[De La Fresniere]

Yes... one might argue that speed is what makes the Dragon special and that, if you don't go for speed, you're just a gimped Cataphract. Having felt the same about the Centurion-D (as opposed to other variants), I understand the basic throught process, but in this case I disagree with it.

Most of the Flame's better configurations do involve bigger XL Engines (most notably the 300, 350 and 325). Speed is good, extra DHS space in the Engine is good, and the Dragon *can* get it all, so in general it's best to go for it. I'd go as far as to say, if you're not doing it, you're not taking advantage of the mech's capabilities.

But the lighter the mech, the less you have to invest in engine power to get the same speed. A Commando with a 210 goes almost as fast as a Jenner or Raven with a 300. To get a Cataphract to 78.7 km/h, you have to equip a 340 Engine, which happens to be 10 tons heavier than a 295 (which would let the Dragon move at 79.7 km/h). If you're aiming for higher speeds, heavier mechs' extra tonnage works as much against them as it works for them. Going at it from this perspective... a Cataphract with a 340 Engine is just a Flame with weird hardpoints.

So although I do think big XL Engines are the best way to go, I'm fine with lowering Engine power, especially if you're going for a Standard Engine (for which every extra bit of power costs a lot of tonnage).

I was trying to figure out a Standard Engine build, and to get good offensive power on it (AC/20 +4 tons ammo, SRM4 +1 ton ammo, 2xML, couple extra DHS) I had to lower the power to 275... which still would grant a speed of 81.7 with Speed Tweak. While I don't think it'd beat 4xLL in range, accuracy or versatility, that could still make a pretty decent brawler.

I also thought about leaving the lasers out altogether, unusual for a laser boater like me. Offense goes down to a still-respectable 30 damage with little to no heat issues, Engine power goes up to 300 (for that classic 89.1 km/h speed) and you can use the mech's entire right side as a huge shield because there's absolutely nothing in the RA/RT. I think that'd make a pretty solid brawler too, with fairly decent striker capabilities as well. Probably wouldn't zombie very long due to the AC/20's high vulnerability to crits, but that'd be asking for too much anyway.

Really, the Flame allows so many different builds... it's what made me decide to buy it. Hero mechs are generally overpriced like crazy, but I thought if I had to invest my already-bought MC in something, the Flame would be the obvious choice.

[Novawrecker]

De La Fresniere, on 28 December 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

Yes... one might argue that speed is what makes the Dragon special and that, if you don't go for speed, you're just a gimped Cataphract. Having felt the same about the Centurion-D (as opposed to other variants), I understand the basic throught process, but in this case I disagree with it.

Most of the Flame's better configurations do involve bigger XL Engines (most notably the 300, 350 and 325). Speed is good, extra DHS space in the Engine is good, and the Dragon *can* get it all, so in general it's best to go for it. I'd go as far as to say, if you're not doing it, you're not taking advantage of the mech's capabilities.

But the lighter the mech, the less you have to invest in engine power to get the same speed. A Commando with a 210 goes almost as fast as a Jenner or Raven with a 300. To get a Cataphract to 78.7 km/h, you have to equip a 340 Engine, which happens to be 10 tons heavier than a 295 (which would let the Dragon move at 79.7 km/h). If you're aiming for higher speeds, heavier mechs' extra tonnage works as much against them as it works for them. Going at it from this perspective... a Cataphract with a 340 Engine is just a Flame with weird hardpoints.

So although I do think big XL Engines are the best way to go, I'm fine with lowering Engine power, especially if you're going for a Standard Engine (for which every extra bit of power costs a lot of tonnage).

I was trying to figure out a Standard Engine build, and to get good offensive power on it (AC/20 +4 tons ammo, SRM4 +1 ton ammo, 2xML, couple extra DHS) I had to lower the power to 275... which still would grant a speed of 81.7 with Speed Tweak. While I don't think it'd beat 4xLL in range, accuracy or versatility, that could still make a pretty decent brawler.

I too agree that not all Dragon builds need an XL engine to be effective. I currently run the Mad Dragon as one of my Flame's layout (AC20 +3tons ammo & 4 Medium lasers all with a standard 275) and the blasted thing just slays.

[NRP]

The Flame provided me the first real opportunity to play with ballistic weapons, and I am really digging them. I'm using 4 MLs and alternating between AC/5 with streaks, and an AC/10. I think I'm going to install FF armor (if possible) to free up some weight.

[De La Fresniere]

Novawrecker, on 28 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

I too agree that not all Dragon builds need an XL engine to be effective. I currently run the Mad Dragon as one of my Flame's layout (AC20 +3tons ammo & 4 Medium lasers all with a standard 275) and the blasted thing just slays.

Interesting, I hadn't thought about that loadout. Truth is I'm not a big fan of the SRM4 (or any spray damage weapon), it's just that it's decent damage for very little weight and heat, and turns your arms into shields so it's a good weight investment. I'd rather have that 40, all-targeted damage from your build, but the potential heat issues scare me a little. 16 for lasers and 6 for the AC/20 add up to 22, which is not as bad as 4xLL's 28, but only about 12 DHS instead of 19, and only 21 AC/20 shots... I'll have to think about it. It's certainly intriguing.

NRP, on 28 December 2012 - 08:35 AM, said:

The Flame provided me the first real opportunity to play with ballistic weapons, and I am really digging them. I'm using 4 MLs and alternating between AC/5 with streaks, and an AC/10. I think I'm going to install FF armor (if possible) to free up some weight.

FF armor gives you something like 1.1 free ton, which really isn't much but is still a nice little benefit in a loadout where you have a lot of free crit space. Sometimes that extra armor or DHS or ton of ammo does make a difference.

Be warned though, since the Flame has only two non-Energy hardpoints, most of its builds usually involve lots of Energy weapons and with FF you'll be cutting yourself off of most of them (they require lots and lots of crit slots for DHS), and will need to have FF removed to try those. It's not that expensive if you don't switch too often, but it's still a significant investment.

EDIT: typo.

Edited by De La Fresniere, 28 December 2012 - 09:20 AM.

[Raso]

Fergrim, on 28 December 2012 - 03:55 AM, said:

Just keeping this topic alive and wanted to share my most recent flame build. Please feel free to criticize so I can continue tweaking.

Engine: std 300 (81 kph)
Ferro/Endo
394 armor
12 Double Heatsinks

LA: 2 medium lasers
RA: 2 medium lasers
CT: SRM 6
LT: AC5
RL: 2 tons srm 6 ammo
LL: 2 tons AC5 ammo

In the end, the stats become..

81 kph
60/60 tons
40 firepower
1.1 heat efficiency

4 medium lasers in group 1 (arms)
AC5 and SRM6 in group 2 (torso)

I might suggest dropping to an ARM 4. The missile hard point only has 5 missile tubes so this way all of your missiles will launch at once. I'm not sure what you could do with the extra slot and ton, maybe go with Artemis or an extra ton of AC5 ammo.

Novawrecker, on 28 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

I too agree that not all Dragon builds need an XL engine to be effective. I currently run the Mad Dragon as one of my Flame's layout (AC20 +3tons ammo & 4 Medium lasers all with a standard 275) and the blasted thing just slays.

You can't fit that AC20 in there with an XL. also don't think you can fit in a gauss with the XL. That's makes setting the Flame up so tricky, you can't use an XL to save the weight to equip an AC20 because then you lack the slots to equip it. Still, the Flame seems to be a fairly fun mech to fiddle with in the mech lab. I do think I'll be purchasing one after all.

[Ryebear]

Dont knock FF on a Dragon. My current Flame I was able to save crit space outside my engine by using FF to save weight to get a 350XL which allowed me to have more DHS overall because I could fit them inside my engine.

Basically because of FF I was able to downgrade 2 Large Lasers to 4 Medium lasers (losing ~200m in range for 2 more dmg and a tiny bit more heat) and upgrade to a 350 XL while keeping the same Heat Efficiency.

Raso, on 28 December 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

You can't fit that AC20 in there with an XL. also don't think you can fit in a gauss with the XL.

You can't fit an AC/20 with an XL, everything else will fit. Honestly, the only reasons to not have an XL engine is you cant afford one yet or you are entirely commited to an XL engine. In other circumstances you can usually upgrade to a 350 XL if you are crit starved as it will save 6 crits in DHS room.

Edited by Ryebear, 28 December 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[De La Fresniere]

Raso, on 28 December 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

don't think you can fit in a gauss with the XL

You can, and since the Gauss is so ridiculously heavy (and generally needs to be put in a side torso so it doesn't get blown off), an XL Engine and the Flame are both good matches for the weapon.

Regardless of free slots, you're right though, the AC/20 (a weapon as ridiculously heavy as the Gauss) does present some issues given that, using a Standard Engine, you just don't have all that much tonnage left to work with.

And yes, I think the Flame is a good buy. There's just too much fun stuff you can do with it. I've spent almost as much time messing in the mechlab as actually playing it and I'm not complaining.

[Tremendous Upside]

Novawrecker, on 28 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

I too agree that not all Dragon builds need an XL engine to be effective. I currently run the Mad Dragon as one of my Flame's layout (AC20 +3tons ammo & 4 Medium lasers all with a standard 275) and the blasted thing just slays.

I have to be honest on this... I just can't buy into the idea that a Mad Dragon carrying an AC20 at 81kph (after speed tweak) is a "good" build. Sure, it'll do well with good teammates (or against bad ones). It'll do well in situations where others are drawing fire away and you're just mopping up - but pretty much any mech can do that and be productive. Too many other mechs can do what you're doing better - and some (like YLW) will do it MUCH better with 10 tons less to work with. When speed is your chassis' biggest asset and it's huge CT hitbox is it's biggest vulnerability, it just doesn't make sense to me to work so far against the grain with a loadout. If brawling and striking is what you're looking to do (which it certainly seems to be with this build), you'd be so much more effective running smaller/lighter weapons with a bigger, faster engine... The difference between running 80kph and 95+ is like night and day in this game.

[De La Fresniere]

Banky, on 28 December 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

I have to be honest on this... I just can't buy into the idea that a Mad Dragon carrying an AC20 at 81kph (after speed tweak) is a "good" build. Sure, it'll do well with good teammates (or against bad ones). It'll do well in situations where others are drawing fire away and you're just mopping up - but pretty much any mech can do that and be productive. Too many other mechs can do what you're doing better - and some (like YLW) will do it MUCH better with 10 tons less to work with. When speed is your chassis' biggest asset and it's huge CT hitbox is it's biggest vulnerability, it just doesn't make sense to me to work so far against the grain with a loadout. If brawling and striking is what you're looking to do (which it certainly seems to be with this build), you'd be so much more effective running smaller/lighter weapons with a bigger, faster engine... The difference between running 80kph and 95+ is like night and day in this game.

I'm kinda torn on this.

It's true that a large XL Engine is what makes a Dragon shine. Few other mechs of similar weight can go anywhere as fast and for most it wouldn't be worth it because of the XL vulnerability (that a Dragon has much less trouble with). The speed is really, really good.

81.7 km/h and 40 damage's worth of attacks (all aimed!), though... it's really not bad at all. The AC/20 being in a hard-to-hit location is a big plus because Gausses and AC/20s break easily; everytime I see a YLW, I always go for its right arm. With a 4xLL Dragon (which is what I have most experience with), two or three shots will de-arm the mech 5 to 10 seconds into the encounter.

It's true that a brawling Dragon might not do much better than a common Hunchback, though, which is a shame considering the Dragon is a whole 20% heavier.

But there's no substitute for experience... I think I'm gonna try brawling with an AC/20 + SRM4 Dragon with a 300 Engine, see if using my right side as a shield makes me durable enough to make it work.

[Ryebear]

You cant shield your CT with your arm. It still sticks out like a sore thumb. You can soak up *some* damage, but not enough to stop a good shot. A centurion is built much differently and has a very small CT.

[Novawrecker]

Banky, on 28 December 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

I have to be honest on this... I just can't buy into the idea that a Mad Dragon carrying an AC20 at 81kph (after speed tweak) is a "good" build. Sure, it'll do well with good teammates (or against bad ones). It'll do well in situations where others are drawing fire away and you're just mopping up - but pretty much any mech can do that and be productive. Too many other mechs can do what you're doing better - and some (like YLW) will do it MUCH better with 10 tons less to work with. When speed is your chassis' biggest asset and it's huge CT hitbox is it's biggest vulnerability, it just doesn't make sense to me to work so far against the grain with a loadout. If brawling and striking is what you're looking to do (which it certainly seems to be with this build), you'd be so much more effective running smaller/lighter weapons with a bigger, faster engine... The difference between running 80kph and 95+ is like night and day in this game.

Although I do agree that speed is an important factor in this game. I do not, however, agree that a YLW can take on a Mad Dragon. Even if taking the same opions (Endo, DHS, and a larger engine say like a 250), the YLW is still down in armor and, importantly, weapons. If someone opts to take an even larger engine, they run in to XL territory which makes it super vunerable to AC20 shots.

The Mad Dragon has been donned it's name due to well ... you have to be mad to drive it But once you do *grins*. Not having an XL increases it's brawling potential and when you run out of ammo or the AC20 gets shot (face it, it will happen with any mech under the suspicion of running an XL), you'll still have 4 mediums to back you.

I agree with some of the points you made, but YLW, even moded, will not out match a Mad Dragon, specifically for the reasons you stated.

De La Fresniere, on 28 December 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

Interesting, I hadn't thought about that loadout. Truth is I'm not a big fan of the SRM4 (or any spray damage weapon), it's just that it's decent damage for very little weight and heat, and turns your arms into shields so it's a good weight investment. I'd rather have that 40, all-targeted damage from your build, but the potential heat issues scare me a little.

I currently run the Mad Dragon with 12 DHS. So far I have had little to no heat concerns. Then again, I don't go on a mad shooting spree either.

Raso, on 28 December 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

You can't fit that AC20 in there with an XL. also don't think you can fit in a gauss with the XL.

I guess you completly ignored the "standard 275", eh? hehe. However, one can fit a Gauss Rifle on a torso carrying an XL engine and still have 2 crit slots left in that torso. Tis risky if that Gauss takes a dive, but it is feasible

Edited by Novawrecker, 28 December 2012 - 02:44 PM.

[NRP]

For now, I've settled on this loadout for my Flame:
XL320
4 MLs
1 AC/10
1 SSRM2
15 DHS (HE = 1.21)

It weighs in at 59.8 tons with a top speed of 86.4 kph. I wish it were a bit faster, but hopefully the speed tweak unlock will help with that. I LOVE this mech!

[De La Fresniere]

Huh... I tried the AC/20 + SRM4 a couple time. I'm having really uneven results.

First time I only did something like 250-300 damage. I did get four kills, but two of those were "lucky" hits to damaged Light mechs, one was a pure, defenseless LRM boat and the last was a Cataphract who was more concerned with protecting its base than protecting its back. Fairly low damage, two lucky kills and two free kills. Meh.

Second time, I missed a lot but somehow did close to 450 damage. I only got like two kills, guys who'd already been damaged by teammates. Most important lesson of that match: I ran out of ammo much faster than I'd anticipated. Removed a ton of armor, added 7 more shots of AC/20.

All in all, nowhere as good as what I was getting with 4xLL. I'm kind of enjoying not caring about my arms or my right side torso, though.

EDIT: 3rd time. Ran out of ammo again. Did close to 700 damage but only one kill. I don't know if I should just dump the SRM4 for lots more ammo... fighting with only a single AC/20 sounds a little bit crazy. I might just replace the SRM4 with lasers instead, to supplement my early-match damage a bit.

EDIT2: 4th. Tried taking on two Dragons head-on. Got severely damaged and my AC/20 got destroyed. Teammates killed one of them. I hunted down the other one and got maybe a dozen dual ML hit on it, nearly killing it, but it finally got me. 295 damage and only 3 assists. Lesson: use your speed and never look directly at opponents for extended periods of time or they get shots at your left torso.

EDIT3: I'm such a good shot I managed to shoot right through that tiny hole under enemy mechs' armpit. Twice in one match. While I ran like a headless chicken, unaware that I was in a killzone. 265 damage, 6 assists, one quick death. Can't blame the build here, I just plain sucked.

EDIT4: 441 damage, 2 kills, we lost.

I guess that's enough early data. Overall it doesn't generally score *too* poorly but it never seems to do really good either. I'll keep using it for a while and see if I can do better. I miss far too often with the AC/20.

Edited by De La Fresniere, 28 December 2012 - 06:05 PM.

[Tremendous Upside]

Novawrecker, on 28 December 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

I agree with some of the points you made, but YLW, even moded, will not out match a Mad Dragon, specifically for the reasons you stated.

Bah, I know I'll never convince you otherwise on this but... my YLW runs similar weaponry, with comparable armor at 100kph. I'd expect to win that matchup every single time. The XL engine isn't the liability some here seem to think. This isn't table-top. I die to side-torso explosions maybe once every week or two (at most) - and I run them in virtually every mech I own. The only time when an XL engine is not the right choice is when you're only doing it for a minor speed increase or to carry a little more offensive weaponry (at least where brawling is the main focus). Taking an Atlas from 57-60kph? Not worth it. Taking a mech from 80 to 100kph (or more) absolutely is... You'll slip and mitigate more damage just off the speed alone than you'll ever absorb as a walking stick.

[Novawrecker]

Banky, on 28 December 2012 - 06:47 PM, said:

Bah, I know I'll never convince you otherwise on this but... my YLW runs similar weaponry, with comparable armor at 100kph. I'd expect to win that matchup every single time. The XL engine isn't the liability some here seem to think. This isn't table-top. I die to side-torso explosions maybe once every week or two (at most) - and I run them in virtually every mech I own. The only time when an XL engine is not the right choice is when you're only doing it for a minor speed increase or to carry a little more offensive weaponry (at least where brawling is the main focus). Taking an Atlas from 57-60kph? Not worth it. Taking a mech from 80 to 100kph (or more) absolutely is... You'll slip and mitigate more damage just off the speed alone than you'll ever absorb as a walking stick.

Don't get me wrong, Banky, I do agree how speed can and does help. However, I am not convinced a YLW can take on a Mad Dragon (barring lucky shots and experiece gaps between pilots), especially if said Centurion is sporting XL's. There are plenty of pilots that can (and will) hit Jenners, Ravens, and other mechs running 120+ kph in Heavy/Assult mechs. I couldn't tell you how many times my teammates or myself have scrapped that annoying ECM raven/commando tonight alone. What makes the YLW any different? None ... be it 100 kph or 130 kph, one well placed shot it all they need. In YLW vs. Mad Dragon scenario ... pop the arm, and that's all you need. The YLW was more armor to chew through and with less weapons to do it with (AC20 + 2 medium lasers) while the Dragon sporting an AC20 & x4 medium lasers has more weapons at its disposal while needing to eat through less armor. Now, do not get me wrong. I am not stating that the Mad Dragon is a fantabulous/broken/impossible to beat mech. It has its flaws like most mechs do. But YLW vs. Mad Dragon? Sorry, but the insane wyrm has the (slight) upper hand.

I do not knock the merits of a tweek'd YLW, it can be an impressive build, but I remain un-convinced that it, especially with an XL, will beat and AC20 totting Dragon with 4 medium lasers w/out an XL. On the average, that Dragon will tear it a new one.

De La Fresniere, on 28 December 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Huh... I tried the AC/20 + SRM4 a couple time. I'm having really uneven results.

First time I only did something like 250-300 damage. I did get four kills, but two of those were "lucky" hits to damaged Light mechs, one was a pure, defenseless LRM boat and the last was a Cataphract who was more concerned with protecting its base than protecting its back. Fairly low damage, two lucky kills and two free kills. Meh.

Second time, I missed a lot but somehow did close to 450 damage. I only got like two kills, guys who'd already been damaged by teammates. Most important lesson of that match: I ran out of ammo much faster than I'd anticipated. Removed a ton of armor, added 7 more shots of AC/20.

All in all, nowhere as good as what I was getting with 4xLL. I'm kind of enjoying not caring about my arms or my right side torso, though.

EDIT: 3rd time. Ran out of ammo again. Did close to 700 damage but only one kill. I don't know if I should just dump the SRM4 for lots more ammo... fighting with only a single AC/20 sounds a little bit crazy. I might just replace the SRM4 with lasers instead, to supplement my early-match damage a bit.

EDIT2: 4th. Tried taking on two Dragons head-on. Got severely damaged and my AC/20 got destroyed. Teammates killed one of them. I hunted down the other one and got maybe a dozen dual ML hit on it, nearly killing it, but it finally got me. 295 damage and only 3 assists. Lesson: use your speed and never look directly at opponents for extended periods of time or they get shots at your left torso.

EDIT3: I'm such a good shot I managed to shoot right through that tiny hole under enemy mechs' armpit. Twice in one match. While I ran like a headless chicken, unaware that I was in a killzone. 265 damage, 6 assists, one quick death. Can't blame the build here, I just plain sucked.

EDIT4: 441 damage, 2 kills, we lost.

I guess that's enough early data. Overall it doesn't generally score *too* poorly but it never seems to do really good either. I'll keep using it for a while and see if I can do better. I miss far too often with the AC/20.

Curious. Have you tried replacing that SRM4 & its ammo for medium lasers? I too was tempted to carry and SRM in the early stages of testing out the Mad Dragon, I did not like the results at all. That took a complete 180 when changed to the arm mounted lasers.

As for missing with the AC. Like most ballistic weapons, they take time getting used to. I would fire blindly and too aloofly. After getting use to its trajectory, I've gotten to the point of hitting dead on with it to threaten even light & fast mechs. There are those that make me look like a blind man that can't shoot the broad side of a building compared to how good they are shooting ballistics.

Edited by Novawrecker, 28 December 2012 - 10:47 PM.