245 replies to this topic

[De La Fresniere]

Redwo1f, on 13 February 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

Is AMS still useful on a 94.5 km/h Flame?

I usually put it on the majority of my mechs (I figure that I am spending 1.5 tons to last longer in matches with lots of LRMS), but I am recognizing that the 1.5 tons could be quite useful in upgrading the weapons a bit. Your thoughts on this matter please.

I think it depends on your loadout and how precious that last 1.5 ton is for that loadout. A lot of people use SRM6 with 2 tons of ammo on their Flame for some reason, and in that case it'd be very easy to free 2 tons. On some other builds, you'd have to sacrifice a ton and a half of armor, which I think is far too high a price.

Also, an AMS doesn't actually do all that much (destroys *one* missile every 0.5 second). It's good to have one if you run close to other AMS mechs, but honestly, if someone fires a 40-LRM volley at you while you're alone, you'll take critical damage with or without it. Considering you're in a fast mech to begin with, I think it's better to seek cover (or rush the LRM boat if you're close enough).

If you can get it without sacrificing much though, it's way better than nothing.

[Redwo1f]

Finally bought my first Hero mech - Flame. Still a rookie (but getting better). I am looking for feedback on 3 possible Flame builds that i am trying to decide upon:

All use the 350xl engine (94.5 km/h) and are close armor wise.

Option A (AC10 build):

AC 10 (2T ammo)
SRM 4 (1T ammo)
1x MedPulse
2x ML
358 Armor, 14 Dbl HS
FirePower: 36, Cooling Eff: 47%

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fc4b32b44a96805

Option B (UAC 5, AMS build):

UAC5 (2T ammo)
SRM 4 (1T ammo)
1x MedPulse
3x ML
AMS, 1T a
376 Armor, 14 Dbl HS
FirePower: 36, Cooling Eff: 41%

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...231723d7c39a401

Option C (AC5, LPL build):

AC5 (1T ammo)
SRM 4 (1T ammo)
1x LargePulse
2x ML
358 Armor, 14 Dbl HS
FirePower: 35, Cooling Eff: 48%

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3580b463255e221

The Option B - UAC5 build is a little concerning as the UAC5 is essentially the main weapon and has reliablity issues (have 1 one on my Phract), but it is perhaps more defensive as it has a bit more armor and the AMS to boot.
Option A - I like the punch of the AC10, but i lose the energy punch as a trade-off.
Option C - I like the Large Pulse (Pulse good for shoot and scoot i find - plus nice to have against fast lights), but lose the ballistic punch as a trade-off (but AC5 perhaps ultimately far more reliable than the UAC5).

Which of the 3 do you think is the best build? Thoughts on this matter please.

(Note: please don't suggest a total rebuild with Gauss - have on other mech and not a huge fan (blows up too easily). Also, it's an easy swap of ssrm2 instead of srm4 which i can experiment with later, but will stick with srm4 for the moment).

Edited by Redwo1f, 13 February 2013 - 09:49 AM.

[NRP]

Any of those would work, but I would advise you to equip 4 lasers. The Flame's dual arm energy hard points are it's biggest advantage, so be sure to take advantage of that. You will eventually run out of ballistics ammo, so don't skimp on lasers. Also, lasers are more effective than ballistics imo.

[Xenon Codex]

I always hated the UAC5 because it was so unreliable. However, the other night I spectated a Flame carrying one and he did really well (over 600 damage and a few kills).

Personally, I don't do very good with ballistics on a fast mech and do best with energy/SRM builds. For example, I routinely do much better with the LBX-10 than the AC/10 (plus get an extra ton of ammo), but that's probably just me and my sucky shot timing. I really do like the "cha-chiiing" sound the AC/10 makes when it's ready to fire again, very helpful.

I don't think the Gauss explosion should worry you too much. On the Flame it'll be mounted in the torso, which doesn't attract to much damage due to the size of your center hump, and if it does go you were probably only a shot or two away from losing your XL anyway. Definitely worth checking out.

Also, I'd drop AMS and add more HS or ammo. It can be useful, but in reality if there's a missile boat on you the few rounds taken out by AMS won't matter. Much better to use your speed and find cover. Capture bases work really well, just snuggle up real close and they won't hit ya.

[Strucker]

Fang

This was the first hero dragon I bought, unfortunately my initial setups tended to be brawler based (my preferred play style) and after spending a couple million c-bills I decided that the Fang was a very poor brawler, I then began building different configurations before finally settling on my current build:

XL280
2x Medium Lasers
1x Gauss Rifle
1x LRM 10
15 Heat Sinks
384 Armor

It functions very well at medium range where you can hit with lasers, LRM's and Gauss, while still retaining a respectable speed. Even though the LRM's become useless at close ranges the Gauss on the arm is all to easy to kill light mechs with if you are willing to spend the time to master it.

I will admit that this setup is somewhat hit or miss with the current abundance of ECM and large groups of lights. That said I typically roll this build with my friends when someone is is using an LRM boat I can support.

*I also though of putting a tag on the shoulder energy slot, however unless tag's are changed to toggle effect I find it far too cumbersome to use effectively

Flame

I bought this mech a couple weeks after buying my flame, in my opinion this mech has far more potential in terms of fittings and play style when compared to its counterpart. I very much use a cookie-cutter build that I am sure has been mentioned on the forums before:

XL360
4x Medium Lasers
1x SSRM2
384 Armor
25 Heatsinks

It functions very well in many roles (heavy scout, interception of lights and mediums, brawler), though I will admit my main reason for liking this build is the anticipation of collisions, should they be added back this mech essentially becomes a 107kmh bowling ball for any light mechs... so much potential for QQ

[De La Fresniere]

Strucker, on 13 February 2013 - 02:01 PM, said:

XL360
4x Medium Lasers
1x SSRM2
384 Armor
25 Heatsinks

It functions very well in many roles (heavy scout, interception of lights and mediums, brawler), though I will admit my main reason for liking this build is the anticipation of collisions, should they be added back this mech essentially becomes a 107kmh bowling ball for any light mechs... so much potential for QQ

I've actually never seen that loadout, I definitely wouldn't call it cookie-cutter. It would indeed work pretty well as a Light hunter, but it's highly unusual. Very lightly armed even for a Dragon, and very basic; no DHS, no Endo-Steel... I suppose the loadout's incredibly low cost was a factor?

I'm a fan of more versatile builds, but specialization does have its advantages...

[Redwo1f]

Thanks for the feedback to my 3 Flame options! I appreciate it.
When in doubt, try them all! - which I have been doing. Ironically, I find I am least successful with the build I thought was the best (C - LPL, Ac5). B (UAC5 build) is better I find - and both the energy compliment and armor can be upgraded by removing AMS as was suggested, but dam, even though I think I am realitively good at operating an UAC5 so it jams less often, it still seems to jam at the most inopertune moments! Arrgh - I can't have this with my main weapon!
Been having the most success with build A - love the critical hit potential of the AC10! Gotta have 2 tons of ammo for it though as 15 shots with 1 T is not nearly enough to get by. Still playing with this build...

SRM's - admittedly a rookie to them (more of a laser & ballistics guy (though I have streaks on my lights)) - I find i am just not that successful with them especially with a fast or moderatly fast moving target - seems i am getting only 2 of the 4 missiles hitting on average (wish damaged stats after matches could be broken down by weapon too). I think I may be better off swapping the SRM4 out and replace it with SSRM 2 and adding a fourth laser (SL) to the build (5 pts damage SSRM + 3 pts SL (8) vs. the 5 pts I seem to be averaging atm with SRM4) - or even switching to an LRM5 to give it a distant weapon and encourage targets to move. Thoughts on this? Also, is the critical hit potential greater with an srm missile vs lrm missile vs. ssrm missile?

Edited by Redwo1f, 14 February 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[Ryebear]

The guaranteed hit of the SSRMs can't really be aimed and the SSRMs are useless against ECM lights, but the SRM4 is actually really great for lights because they come out of your CT. Timing your SRM shots for when the light smashes right into your face as they often do works wonders! You dont even really have to be aiming at that all that well since their torso height is the same height as your launcher tubes. Also timing your SRM volley to your AC/Gauss shot up close helps give some added punch in slapping distance against bigger targets.

Its just some food for thought though; SSRMs do give you an extra half tonne to work with and is functional most of the time which is nice. The lock on is tied to your arms which also helps a lot on drive bys. It's really just personal preference.

[ExplodedZombie]

Fang:
XL325
LB-10X, 3 Med Las, 1 SRM6

Flame:
XL325
LB-10X, 4 med Las, 1 SRM6

Both have endo steel and Double heat sinks.

I use them as very fast brawlers that hit and run, shredding armor, and getting people to chase me. Pretty effective.

[Redwo1f]

Why have 2 pretty much identical Mechs? I think I would be tempted to make them with different load-outs.

[The Slippery Gypsy]

Unsure if listed already or not, but this is a favorite Flame setup for me. Basically as many guns as I can fit, while not being slow, light on armor or hot.

XL300
Endo Steel
4 x med pulse laser
LB10x (2 ammo)
srm6 (1 ammo)
16 x DHS (heat rating of 1.29)
336 armour points, loose it off the head and legs. Spread it on the torso to cover your back when the action gets too hot, or when your pursuing someone while someone is pursuing you. (this happens a lot once they realize its you tearing them apart. )

Use the SRM6 and LB10X grouped together like a big bad 25 damage shotgun, ripping limbs from from enemy with ease. (only because I find 2 weapons buttons better than 3). And use the 4 pulse lasers grouped like a 24 damage scalpel to slice off meat from your foes. Use the speed to get in (and out) of trouble. Get yourself behind an enemy as they don't shoot backwards, and also have less armor there. Always know where your team is at. Support your big guys and your gonna win a lot more than you lose. This build is a close range in your face dragon, ammo isn't super heavy, but the punch is big. You can mix it up a bit for more or less ammo/heat/ amour etc depending on play style.

[Aim-Bot]

Flame:

Endosteel
Double Heat Sinks (2 in Engine)
Heat : 1.37

Left Arm : 2 large laser
Right Arm: 2Large laser

Max Amor

Legs : 36

Works fine for me so far. The Heat is pretty good and 93,6 kph is pretty fast.

[NRP]

I mastered my Fang using this build. It's bascally a sniper.

XL340
Gauss
ERPPC
ML
DHS, Endo, FF

The ERPPC-Gauss 1-2 punch is really effective, and helps with heat management.

This build excels on Alpine and Tourmaline.

[RazarG]

Im running the xl360 in mine, to go at 106kph (with speedtweak)

Im Packing

4 med lazers
Ac 10 - 2 tons ammo
Streak 2 - 1 ton ammo

Armor at 394 along with speed, makes it a nice brawler

In my Fang im using an xl340

3 med pulse lazers
ultra ac 5 - 2 tons amo
lrm 10 -2 tons ammo
AMS

Same armor as my flame and a little slower

Edited by RazarG, 31 March 2013 - 04:04 PM.

[Verrue]

How about now , what you find the baddest weakness of your flame/dragon ?

How you kil a dragon type mech or a flame mech ?


Edit: Explain how you compensate for the weakness of the mech build , or how you hunt, skirmish .

How you figth in urban , or open ground.


tx !

Edited by Verrue, 04 April 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Verrue, on 04 April 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

How about now , what you find the baddest weakness of your flame/dragon ?

How you kil a dragon type mech or a flame mech ?


Edit: Explain how you compensate for the weakness of the mech build , or how you hunt, skirmish .

How you figth in urban , or open ground.


tx !

Biggest weakness is that you won't last long under focus fire. No mech does, but the giant CT makes it worse.

My favorite way to kill another Dragon is through the shoulder. They are small, but if you can line the shot up it is the quickest way. Almost all Dragons run XL's, and if they don't, they wont have enough firepower to really be a threat back to you.

The most important thing is to identify where the enemy is, where the front line of the battle is, and knowing when to flank. Flanking is crucial for success in a Dragon, as well as understanding the ebb and flow of a fight. Knowing when to run away and not get shot is just as important as dealing damage.

You have to be able to anticipate enemy movement too. When you flank, how many of them are going to turn around and come at you? Is your taget isolated or are his friends nearby? Where are the enemy lights, will they counter your flanking move? When you reveal yourself are you in any enemy mechs perephiral vision? If the plan goes fubar can you make it back to your team before you are killed?

To win in a Dragon you have to be able to out think your opponent in the movement game. Most other heavies will be able to outgun you in a straight fight, so you need to make your shots count. That means accuracy and as many rear armor and headshots as possible.

Bob and weave through buildings if possible. Dont be afraid to come to a full stop once you are behind cover and take a different angle, somtimes they will anticipate you moving in a circular motion, and you can catch their back if they take the bait or make a clean escape.

Edited by Roughneck45, 05 April 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Hayashi]

SRM6, 4x MPLAS.

4 arm-mounted medium pulses is really extremely powerful.

[NRP]

How to be effective in a Dragon? Go fast and keep moving. Speed is the Dragon's only real advantage. Use it to get behind enemies and shoot them in the back or sides. Focus on distracted enemies. Don't 1v1 someone unless they're severely damaged.

Play like this and you will have a lot of fun in your Dragon.

[Volts]

Wintersdark, on 20 December 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

Edit: Also, through all the Battletech games, I've had this deep seated love for PPC's. I don't care if they're not terribly great in MWO.

HAHAHAHAHA.

The good old days.

[Wintersdark]

Volts, on 30 June 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

HAHAHAHAHA.

The good old days.

lol it's hard to believe that there was a day where PPC's where trash weapons in MWO.

No HSR, ridiculously high heat, lagshields....

*sighs*

Still, thanks for reminding me of that post It serves as my hipster "I was using PPC's before they were cool" post.