1017 replies to this topic

[ICEFANG13]

Except you can enjoy the double down while it kills you, 8 mans with ECM majority? Not enjoyable and very deadly.

[ShadowSpirit]

BerryChunks, on 29 December 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

I had a lot of success last match hammering slow atlases that were carrying ECMs with ER laser and ER ppc in addition to the clean fast locks of TAGging. Just sayin.

Clean, fast tag locks? *MAYBE* on an Atlas .... but what about the raven, cicada, and commando? You know, the 3 other (out of a total of 4) mechs that can use ECM. Any break in LOS and it's gone and it takes many times longer to regain lock.

[StalaggtIKE]

BerryChunks, on 29 December 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

I had a lot of success last match hammering slow atlases that were carrying ECMs with ER laser and ER ppc in addition to the clean fast locks of TAGging. Just sayin.

Key word, "slow". TAGging an assault mech is not much of a feat. It's pretty easy. I've had success with simply dumb firing. However the other three ECM mechs are a different story. They're fast and require a 'bit' more effort to TAG.

[DeaconW]

Merovigian, on 29 December 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

ECM's disadvantage is that you can only use it on 4 chassis.

Logical correction: This is not a disadvantage. It simply defines what most people will drive to maximize success, further proving ECM's OP.

Edited by DeaconW, 29 December 2012 - 09:08 PM.

[BerryChunks]

StalaggtIKE, on 29 December 2012 - 08:46 PM, said:

Key word, "slow". TAGging an assault mech is not much of a feat. It's pretty easy. I've had success with simply dumb firing. However the other three ECM mechs are a different story. They're fast and require a 'bit' more effort to TAG.

Well I'd prefer sending my LRMs against large targets, where more will hit.

[Mordin Ashe]

BerryChunks, on 29 December 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Well I'd prefer sending my LRMs against large targets, where more will hit.

What game are you playing, my good sir? Definitely not MWO! In MWO you can't pick your enemies. When there is five lagshielded lights rushing you and assaults are not present or hiding, you can't choose who to attack, you just shoot the one or two you can shoot. So please, if there is some game where I can pick who to kill without spacial and tactical awareness whatsoever, please tell me!

[BerryChunks]

Mordin Ashe, on 29 December 2012 - 10:04 PM, said:

What game are you playing, my good sir? Definitely not MWO! In MWO you can't pick your enemies. When there is five lagshielded lights rushing you and assaults are not present or hiding, you can't choose who to attack, you just shoot the one or two you can shoot. So please, if there is some game where I can pick who to kill without spacial and tactical awareness whatsoever, please tell me!

And then you don't waste your LRM ammo against them, using lasers or streaks instead. They're going to be close range to you, which means your LRMs wont do as much damage either, even if they do hit.

Edited by BerryChunks, 30 December 2012 - 12:00 AM.

[Peter Valentine]

I still want normal Guardian ECM not Angel ECM.....

[Marcus Tanner]

BerryChunks, on 30 December 2012 - 12:00 AM, said:

And then you don't waste your LRM ammo against them, using lasers or streaks instead. They're going to be close range to you, which means your LRMs wont do as much damage either, even if they do hit.

Did you honestly recommend using streaks against 5 lag-shielded lights with ECM?

You do realize that he was talking about ECM mechs, right?

Peter Valentine, on 30 December 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

I still want normal Guardian ECM not Angel ECM.....

Angel didn't disrupt LRMs. Not even semi-guided ones (not even a little bit).

[Stingz]

Peter Valentine, on 30 December 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

I still want normal Guardian ECM not Angel ECM.....

Angel ECM + Null Signature, neither Angel or Guardian ECM say anything about radar reduction unless the opponent is within the ECM bubble(Double-Blind Rules).

Edited by Stingz, 30 December 2012 - 06:00 AM.

[Ey3cD34Dppl]

Stingz, on 30 December 2012 - 05:59 AM, said:

Angel ECM + Null Signature, neither Angel or Guardian ECM say anything about radar reduction unless the opponent is within the ECM bubble(Double-Blind Rules).

Well, I think i gathered some experience on MWO by now. And the way ECM works actually is absolutely not like it is supposed to be. From my perspective ECM should only be able to affect enemy systems which are within the ECM bubble. Otherwise it would have to affect the systems of the own team as well. From my perspective the ECM system how it is implemented in the game should be somehow tweaked to work the above mentioned way.

Just think about it from the physical way. How should it be possible to influence radar or target systems that are far out of his area of influence?

Therefore I'd like to suggest to change it like suggested above.

This would support the quoted posting and the usual rules for ECM like it is in the Battletech Universe.

[HiplyRustic]

If the devs really want the thing acting like Null Shield+Angel Shield on steroids then apply all the Null Shield slotting reqs in addition. The extra heat, no targeting gear, 7 crit slots, one crit to any of those slots disables the whole system...plus the ecm slot/weight. Even then, Null Sig makes a mech harder to track...not impossible to track.

Let's at least try and remember that location computations and targeting locks are not simply radar, they are a combination of a mech's available information gathering systems feeding data into a targeting computer...so unless that ecm is blocking/scrambling everything...heat, the radar signature of 70 tons of rolling metal, electronic emissions, audio...everything...that system's going to get a lock eventually.

It's actually a bad idea since the Null Shield is lostech and didn't function as an umbrella anyway...but if we have to have ecm functioning this way at least provide it some disincentive.

Edited by HiplyRustic, 30 December 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[rmz]

This is coming from a hardcore casual pov. I play MWO pretty often, only PUGs though. I am happy as long as I can walk and shoot a big tin can. Easily pleased you might say. I play a lot of games in general and I am not 13 for a long time.

With that in mind...

About the repair bills - I don't mind either way, but I don't play assault. If in fact you could lose c-bills even on wins then bringing back the costs seems silly. I mean it's perfectly fine for people who play MWO only MWO and always MWO, but a pain in the *** for everyone else. The only thing that this changed is that now every mech is fully loaded/repaired on every match and there are less afkers and suiciders. Horrible, I know...

Matchmaking - Can't say it's working bad right now, but maybe it's different for PUGs. There are pretty one sided games once in a while, but that might be due to thousands of reasons.

ECM - Holy -ing ****. If you can't see it's broken you have to be running it. It gives you the kingmaker position. You, the ECM guy, will decide who wins. And basically, the team without ECM loses. It's that simple. The only good thing it did is the fact that I'm just giving up MWO until it is somehow fixed. More times for other good games.

But really, what were they smoking? ECM is currently the only equipment every mech would have if it would be available to all. If you can't see it as broken then I don't know what is.

[ICEFANG13]

I laugh really hard at people who think its balanced, but have no argument why it is. Or counter arguments for why we think it is not, and there's the huge majority that think its OP, but PGI still is in magical, "working as intended" land.

[ltwally]

Previously, I had (mostly) enjoyed MW:O, even with its many rough edges. ECM however, has had me mostly sidelined for the past 3+ weeks. *shrug* No biggy, since I've been busy with work, family and holiday insanity.

But I thought I'd give it a whirl again.

So, last evening, I PUG'd ~6 games. My hunchbacks -- which are direct-fire weaponry only -- still need more XP, and I wanted to see if either ECM use had died down or I was better able to stomach it. Who knows, perhaps I'd have a change of heart.

In every game ECM was present. Out of 44 possible mech variants, it was not missing from even one single game. Far from it, only once was there as few as 2 ECM mechs, most of the time it was 4+. And its presence was indeed a game changer -- those with ECM had clear advantages. In one of those matches, I found myself on a team with ECM while our opponents had none. Another match was reversed. In both cases, the team without ECM was treated so harshly, a police special victims unit could have been called out.

Even while playing in direct-fire only mechs, I found myself more than once having no clue who was friend or foe, due to ECM killing sensors/comms. Equally frustrating was the game where 3 of my teammates chimmed in at the start, saying they were LRM mechs looking for spotters, and watching as they were completely useless in game.

Not if ECM weighed 15 tonnes would it be balanced. But only 1.5 tonnes?

Decisions like this wreck games, and push players elsewhere.

I'm off to sign up for hawken and see what it's like. I'll keep an eye on MW:O, but I don't plan on playing here while the system is bent into its current pretzel shaped horror.


Dear PGI: As a professional game company, you really do need to learn to roll out new stuff in a more balanced, or even somewhat weakened, state and then ramp up as necessary. Even after all the issues you've had with this very problem in the past, you still chose to roll out ECM as it is. If you want people to pay you money, you need to do better. This sort of decision making does not engender folks to open their wallets to you.

Dear PGI PS. I applaud how you rolled out Autocannons, even if it was likely accidental. There, they were weak, and you've slowly tuned them up. This is how it should be with everything you add to the game. Think on it. Pray on it.

Edited by ltwally, 30 December 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[Damocles69]

1. this belongs in general discussion or one of the many "ECM is bad and you should feel bad" theards

2. bye, can i have your stuff?

[ltwally]

Damocles69, on 30 December 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

1. this belongs in general discussion or one of the many "ECM is bad and you should feel bad" theards

Wrong. The more threads like this, the better the chance PGI will learn their lesson. And, really, isn't that the point: to get PGI to do things better/smarter.

Quote

2. bye, can i have your stuff?

No

[Black Ivan]

Agreed. The overall implementation and balancing of ECM is catastrophic. The system in game has nothing to do with the Guardian ECM from the BT rules.

Edited by Black Ivan, 30 December 2012 - 10:31 AM.

[SPencil]

ECM did indeed change the game. For better or worse that's more a matter of opinion.

I use SRMs and lasers almost exclusively, and haven't really noticed that big of a difference. What I've noticed is that people tend to stick close and group up around ECM, MW:O is a game of teamwork, and ECM made not working as a team much deadlier. Of course when working as a team, regardless of ECM, will help bring you through battles.

ECM isn't the problem: it's the people who use it. I think improvements could be made but for now it's good.

And just an FYI, Hawken is much more of a "traditional" modern-shooter. I tried it, and it put me in mind of Call-of-Duty with robots. IMO, it's disappointing.

Can I have your hunchbacks? What engines do they got?

[SixstringSamurai]

Black Ivan, on 30 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

Agreed. The overall implementation and balancing of ECM is catastrophic. The system in game has nothing to do with the Guardian ECM from the BT rules.

It doesn't? I'm confused. Maybe words mean different things when they're written on Sarna:

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite