1017 replies to this topic

[Rakkis Wolfheart]

Cannon, game balance, whatever. I have NO problem with ECM. I LIKE that it unbalances the Game. Thats what ECM is SUPPOSED to do. Its WAR. Cry because war is unfair? Its not Balanced? Laughable. Its why most of the modern militaries today have highly capable EW platforms. Or should they bag those too because it's not fair?

[Joanna Conners]

So the OP left one beta for another. This is post-worthy?

[DocBach]

Rakkis Wolfheart, on 30 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

Cannon, game balance, whatever. I have NO problem with ECM. I LIKE that it unbalances the Game. Thats what ECM is SUPPOSED to do. Its WAR. Cry because war is unfair? Its not Balanced? Laughable. Its why most of the modern militaries today have highly capable EW platforms. Or should they bag those too because it's not fair?

Ask the Iraqis how much fun they had fighting us and our ECM.

This is a game, not war. It's made to be fun and entertain. Something overly powerful breaks the balance which breaks the fun.

[ICEFANG13]

Because this is a game, and we want it to be balanced. Why in the world do people get all up in a tizz if its not like/too like real world?

I want a balanced game, I'm willing to accept there will be bumps, I'm willing to accept there will be wait for fixes, but I am not willing to accept that ECM is good, or balanced, and I hope very much so they make it balanced, and put a lot of effort to make it good, but never auto include, or worse, game defining.

[Mr Steik]

[Rakkis Wolfheart]

DocBach, on 30 December 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Ask the Iraqis how much fun they had fighting us and our ECM.

I tried, their radios didnt work.

[DocBach]

its not letting me like that post Rakkis

[ltwally]

Willie Sauerland, on 30 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

Ok, I'll bite if for no other reason than to feed the trolls.

What is the C3 system? It is a Command, Control, and Communication device which, amazingly, takes care of such things as communication between mechs, targeting, and sensor information. As ECM disrupts this within its 180 meters, it is not surprising you cannot get this information from the bubble effect mentioned in the BMR. Therefore, I would argue you are incorrect in your assumption that "the cannon ECM suite does nothing about basic sensors/comms or LRM / S-SRM locks", as I would hope you can see.

It is interesting that all mechs have this already as it didn't come around until 3050ish if I remember correctly. However, it is there and as such, the ECM implementation makes sense given what you found in the canon.

Just my two C-Bills to the conversation.

In BattleTech, C3 is a specific piece of add-on equipment.

In TT / canon, ECM specifically disrupts C3 (along with Active Probes [eg Beagle], Artemis, and Narc), and specifically does not disrupt other systems.

So, no, it is not canon to disrupt basic sensor or comm systems or missiles.

It doesn't even cause issues for indirect missile fire.

Mr Steik, on 30 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

Judging from the responses to this post and other similar posts, you are quite mistaken.

But I'll give you this: that image is all kinds of special.

[Marcus Tanner]

SixStringSamurai, on 30 December 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

It doesn't? I'm confused. Maybe words mean different things when they're written on Sarna:

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

It would appear that they do. Sarna is incorrect.

This part, for instance, is explicitly contradicted by the actual rules:

SixStringSamurai, on 30 December 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems....

ECM most decided does not interfere with communications, targeting computers or guided weaponry... with some very clear and specific exceptions, namely C3, Artemis, Beagle and Narc.

Incidentally, it only nullifies Beagle if you are not using the double-blind rules. IF you're using the double-blind rules, Beagle helps you cut through ECM.

Evinthal, on 30 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

The whole shebang of "One could be jamming the enemies without even knowing they're on the other side of a building." is complete bull poop. If you had any common sense to check the right side of your screen or look at your damn map and see it being scrambled, you'd know damn well know you were being jammed.

You seem to have things a little backwards. The thing that's being jammed knows it's being jammed, but the jamming thing doesn't necessarily know that it's jamming. I find that other member's complaint to be a little silly, but he wasn't saying what you think he was saying.

Incidentally, if the enemy is 600m away and ECM is preventing you from locking on you don't get told that you're being jammed by ECM.

Evinthal, on 30 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Adding in that LRMs can still be used if you have a TAG yourself, or a competent friend to TAG for you and not be a total derp. Especially now that TAG has a 750 meter range.

Extra range doesn't help you keep the TAG on an enemy light for the 5-15s it takes for LRMs to come in. It also doesn't help if the light turns around and gets within 180m of you.

Willie Sauerland, on 30 December 2012 - 02:47 PM, said:

What is the C3 system? It is a Command, Control, and Communication device which, amazingly, takes care of such things as communication between mechs, targeting, and sensor information. As ECM disrupts this within its 180 meters, it is not surprising you cannot get this information from the bubble effect mentioned in the BMR. Therefore, I would argue you are incorrect in your assumption that "the cannon ECM suite does nothing about basic sensors/comms or LRM / S-SRM locks", as I would hope you can see.

It is interesting that all mechs have this already as it didn't come around until 3050ish if I remember correctly. However, it is there and as such, the ECM implementation makes sense given what you found in the canon.

These basic sensors are not C3.

These sensors are not C3.

It's worth saying again. These sensors are not C3.

You do not need C3 to share an enemy's position.

You do not need C3 to call in indirect LRM fire.

You do not need C3 to share the wireframe damage estimate of enemy mechs you're getting.

In addition to all that functionality, C3 makes enemies easier to hit. These sensors do not. Therefore, these sensors are not C3.

---

I don't particularly mind PGI having ECM disrupt this kind of target data sharing, which works in a manner reminiscent of C3. That's because C3 isn't out yet and a big part of the utility of ECM is handling C3. I want ECM to be worth the 1.5 tons, but right now it's worth one hell of a lot more than that.

[Ashnod]

Really.. You any tell friend or for because of ECM? I don't think I've ever had that issue.. Most of the time it's bloody obvious and once you get close where allies don't show on radar you can target them.. Oh and the guys shooting you are usually the baddies as well, the only people that deserve to complain at all about ECM are streak and LRM users, specially since Guardian ECM isn't supposed to affect those systems at all.

[Redoxin]

ltwally, on 30 December 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

In BattleTech, C3 is a specific piece of add-on equipment.

In TT / canon, ECM specifically disrupts C3 (along with Active Probes [eg Beagle], Artemis, and Narc), and specifically does not disrupt other systems.

So, no, it is not canon to disrupt basic sensor or comm systems or missiles.

It doesn't even cause issues for indirect missile fire.



Judging from the responses to this post and other similar posts, you are quite mistaken.

But I'll give you this: that image is all kinds of special.

People only post here because the are annoyed about you telling us what you do, not because they care about what you do.

Didnt read the OP either btw.

[Willie Sauerland]

Marcus Tanner, on 30 December 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

These basic sensors are not C3.

These sensors are not C3.

It's worth saying again. These sensors are not C3.

You do not need C3 to share an enemy's position.

You do not need C3 to call in indirect LRM fire.

You do not need C3 to share the wireframe damage estimate of enemy mechs you're getting.

In addition to all that functionality, C3 makes enemies easier to hit. These sensors do not. Therefore, these sensors are not C3.

I assume you mean the Mark 1 Type 1 sensors (also known as the pilot's eyes)...

No. I can confirm, ECM even in the CBT did not affect these sensors.

[PiemasterXL]

ECM drove you to hawken?

My ECM Raven drove me to victory.

[Native]

I've been reading a lot of threads about the pro's and con's of ECM, and how it effects game play. Perhaps part of the solution to the ECM problem could be turning it into a module rather than part of the normal loadout? Retain the variant requirements, so if your intent on using it, you have to earn it on one of the specific variants.

not to flame, QQ, Troll or otherwise, just my .02 cents

Edited by Native, 30 December 2012 - 04:29 PM.

[HiplyRustic]

PiemasterXL, on 30 December 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

ECM drove you to hawken?

My ECM Raven drove me to victory.

So, you sat on your IWin button then...

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

What about spending your 2 cents pushing the next page button.

http://mwomercs.com/...-feedback-cont/

[MaxllmuS]

I think all agree ECM OP right now. In this tread we can make ECM much better.
I post here old ECM stats and add some thing i think make it realy good but not usless.
Bold font for changes.

Quote

When a Mech is hidden by a friendly ECM:

• Enemy Mechs will have to come within 1/4 the normal distance (200 m instead of 800 m, by default) for hidden Mechs to show up on their battlegrid and HUD.The Beagle Active Probe is of no use in extending this range.
  
• It takes twice as long to achieve a missile lock against a hidden Mech.
  
• Narc beacons will stick to hidden Mechs, but they won’t provide their normal bonuses until the Mech leaves the ECM’s range.
  
• Artemis IV does not provide any bonuses against hidden Mechs.

When a Mech is hidden by a friendly ECM:

• Enemy Mechs will have to come within 1/2 the normal distance (400 m instead of 800 m, by default) for hidden Mechs to show up on their battlegrid and HUD.The Beagle Active Probe used in extending this range by 25% to 500m.
  
• It takes twice as long to achieve a missile lock against a hidden Mech.
  
• Narc beacons will stick to hidden Mechs, but provide their normal bonuses only half time (10sec) in ECM’s range.
  
• Artemis IV does not provide any bonuses against hidden Mechs.

Quote

When your Mech is disrupted by an enemy ECM:

• You will not know where your teammates are, and they won’t know where you are, unless you have direct line of sight to each other.
  
• You cannot share any targeting data with the rest of your team, and vice versa.
  
• Your Beagle Active Probe ceases to function.
  
• You cannot achieve any missile locks.
  
• Your TAG laser can still fire but provides no bonuses.
  
• Your battlegrid and targeting information will flicker.

When your Mech is disrupted by an enemy ECM:

• You will not know where your teammates are, and they won’t know where you are, unless you have direct line of sight to each other.
  
• You cannot share any targeting data with the rest of your team, and vice versa.
  
• Your Beagle Active Probe ceases to function.
  
• It takes triple time to lock target,and twice if target under TAG or NARC effect.
  
• Your TAG laser work normal because its optic not electronic weapon system
  
• Your battlegrid and targeting information will flicker.

Counter mode stay same.


Also i want changes in NARC make it weight from 3t to 1.5t like simple SSRM (its just a launcher missle do all the trick) and ammo increase from 6 to 10.

Edited by MaxllmuS, 30 December 2012 - 06:23 PM.

[MaxllmuS]

I try to make ECM more balanced.Need all your help.
http://mwomercs.com/...upcoming-patch/
Short list of changes

When a Mech is hidden by a friendly ECM:
Enemy Mechs will have to come within 1/2 the normal distance (400 m instead of 800 m, by default) for hidden
Mechs to show up on their battlegrid and HUD.The Beagle Active Probe used in extending this range by 25% to 500m.

When your Mech is disrupted by an enemy ECM:
It takes triple time to lock target,and twice if target under TAG or NARC effect.
Your TAG laser work normal because its optic not electronic weapon system

Edited by MaxllmuS, 30 December 2012 - 06:30 PM.

[PiemasterXL]

HiplyRustic, on 30 December 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

So, you sat on your IWin button then...

Your whine goes well with my cheese.

[Eddrick]

It's probably best if GECMS didn't prevent locks. Just breaking it at regular intervals to make getting a missle lock tricky. But, not inpossible without help. Simlar to how it is in MechWarrior 4.

Having them not appear on radar is differant equipment from GECMS.