92 replies to this topic

[The Choppa]

I find myself agreeing with OP on the fact that a lot of people will probably leave the game in frustration over some of the current mechanics. Quite often I end up logging off in a rage after losing 10 straight games, or worse.

I hate premades entirely. In my preferred world it would be 100% random vs 100% random, leave the teamers to fight only against other teamers. But its not, so I deal with it.

But the one thing that really gives me the angerz is the lag. I only just found out last night that you need to "lead" lasers in order to hit... I thought that was a srm/AC thing. Fighting a dragon doing roughly 70kph at 100 meters means I need to do aim around 2 mechs width ahead... that's pretty poor. The joys of living in Australia I guess.

All my problems are solved with "deal with it or ****", so I will rage quit for a month or so at a time, play for a week, etc etc.
What can be done to fix my issues with the game? I'm pretty sure it's already being worked on, along with the million other things they are trying to also fix/do.
Just gonna take time. People need to be patient

[Helbourne]

One thing I do know, the OP is wrong about dropping the TT contraints as he puts it. The first Battletech TT game came out in 1984, the first Battletech novel was in 1986. This entire game is based off that TT game. Now yes the TT game is turn based and this online game is real time. So the devs are going to need time to make the adjustments to everything so it feels just like the TT game. I am sure there are a lot of people who decided to play this game because they expect it to feel like the TT in many ways. Sure things may not exactly match up because of turn based vs real time scales.

If and when the devs can put there more advanced tech and different munitions in this game people are really going to go off the deep end of crying that is OP or ezmode. Oh man what if they put in the missle that lays down mine fields? There are a couple different versions of that missle.

[ATao]

LRMs are just fine right now. They are at their sweet spot where they are not too weak and not too powerful. With TAG buff they are a viable option in 8s but not to the point where you want to take more than 1-2 lrm boats (max 3 for very spesific setups). If you nerf LRMs they'll be completely useless. Buffs aren't needed either. There's no need to break what's already working.

If you can't understand this and think LRMs are OP... I'll be you captain. L2P sir.


And about premades... tbh don't really care as I have 8s now . And I don't think any competitive player will care either as now we all have what we really wanted. Teams of 2 max imo are ok for pugging.

Edited by Alexander Malthus, 21 December 2012 - 12:14 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

There we have an agreed upon point. 2 player teams are good for pub matches.

I'll leave the LRM argument alone, I mean, people are raging about it every day. 3 posts from different players per day complaining should get the devs attention. What I am asserting, is that with using less effort, my scores are higher when i stacked on lrms for a handful of matches, than they are now using my typical weapons.. mostly ballistics.

I am sorry you think this games community is based on the idea taht TT rules are a good thing from 1984, for a 2013 fps. I am sure you will never agree with my position, and you will forever argue your point. I expect as much from fanboys, blind support for the status quo. Your just so worng though, maybe someday someone whos opinion you respect will explain it to you.

I want this game to usurp wot. I liked wot, but this has one thing wot will never have. Unbridled customization. In wot you can move up, but the best gun is well, the best gun (with some exceptions). Anyone complaining about tier 3 versus 7, has hardly played the game, and has no room to offer opinion. Get some tens, get in clan wars (sure most of you never seen wot clan wars first hand (not the africa stuff the real McCoy). You will see what I define as real strategy. This game can get there, and I pray it does because like I said, the mech lab stuff here has my heart at the moment. I can't lower the HP's of my treads there (wot) to add a larger weapon. That one aspect, is one of this games strongest. Hawken, same thing, not nearly as customizable.

But the plethora of issues is killing the community. I plea for change, and am largely answered with scorn from fan boys.

This is my spirirt in MWO, an old trailer from an old game I loved into the ground. watched it every time I played, before I played. PS you need an opening trailer... stop making your first screen look like a poor mans carbon copy of the steam store. You make your game run solid, balance the weapons, and reinvent MM to the point where it matches based on skill, and you will see success. I know how to compete and be "tactical" (X field commander of clan wars matches in wot), but I am largely disincetivised to do so at the time. Even if I can convince myself to sit behind a rock for 5+ minutes (your idea of tactical), I can guarantee my pubbie mates won't. Then I am last to die, so ok. I guess in your minds I did the right thing. In my mind I am saying, I just wasted 10 minutes of my life and it was not fun.

Drop with people. If you don't want to put in effort statement.... I will jsut say this (60-70%) of wot users, many paying customers, never platoon, join company battles etc. They are half perma-noob, and maybe pvp isnt even really right for them, but they are paying and playing. Maybe you founders do not care about them, but the core of my argument is that while you hard-cores might like the state today, or where it is going, those droves of would be customers will never put in that level of effort. I never said I would not, I said at this time, a super noob mech pub as I am, am field testing things into the ground. yes I read forum statements regarding weapons, BUT I want to test them for myself.. 20x over and come to my own conclusion.

Indirect fire is pretty much the cheap easy win in all mediums.. whether it be LRMS in mwo, arty in wot, or artillery in RTS games, its the easy way, the easy win.

Note that all the players who call me a noob and critisize my opinion, are founders.

Your making such a great name for yourselves guys. Keep it up. Someday I may post "Told ya so."

PGI stop with the new mechs, game mechanics should be your priority. Fire everyone who is clueless on net code, and bump the salary offers for the new coder positions you cannot fill.

So heres my spirit, as applied in mwo, in my own mind.



Now, I do die fast, but you have to understand that i'm having fun right up until the moment my core pops.

Note I do not want everyone to viably run around like this. I want to be the pariaha in my play style. "uncharacteristicly aggressive" as compared to the flock. So I want it tactical, but I want there to be a remote chance that if played well, I can pull off some solo-sam sh*t. I would accept a 10-15% success rate on this type of play style. As it stands it is closer to zero. World of sit behind a rock and pray my mates do the same, isn't going to fly for me. World of I have to get on TS to have fun, equally will fail to hold my interest. And that 70%, the casual noobs, if PGI has any common sense, they will not disregard their value as quickly as the uber-skilled founders. They will be the economic back bone of this community, if it succeeds. Without them, I see a grim future for PGI: MWO..

[Ghogiel]

Yes, the matchmaker is kinda dumb.

Premade 4 mans noobstomping all day is a fact of MWO's life.

Noobstomping premades will defend their easy win noobstomp mode.

LRMs are annoying as ****.

And so is ECM.

^every thread pretty much on MWO is like this one.

[Lon3Wo1f]

The OP was far, far too long and I'm too tired to read it fully but the general sentiment seems to be that he / she / it thinks premade teams are killing the game. What? The simultaneous drop is annoying and bothers me too but it's not something you can do regularly or without fail. We're currently in Phase 2 of the matchmaking revamp and it's vastly improved from where it was previously where you could end up on team of 7 players against a team of 8.

Is there a magic fix? Nope, they're working on it though so they're not ignoring any cries and pleas for help. Premade teams are not killing the game. We have 8 vs 8 now and until we get some sort of clan warfare it makes it hard if a group of friends have over 4 players but not 8. Then you end up with groups sometimes trying to do the simultaneous drop. I don't think it's a big problem but PGI aren't saying it's fine this way. Patience is key especially in any kind of beta. Yes I said it but it's true.

[Helbourne]

Sixsixsix, please step off your high horse and quit bloviating.

No TT = No lore = No Mechwarrior, then why even bother

as far as the other points, give the programmers and devs a break, this cannot be an easy project to do.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Damn dice rollers.. always trying to QQ kachoo when someone wants the game to compete and be successful in today's competitive gaming market. Your "this has to remain table top rules" assertions don't worry me too much. 100% sure if they arnt abandoned MWO fails, 90% certain the devs will figure that out first, and adjust fire to avoid "failing".

Leave your 4 mans you noobs, or go play 8 man and face an equally skilled opponent. Quit farming and driving away new players, forever stagnating community growth. Quit spamming the easiest indirect fire weapon I have ever seen (LRM's).. Saw a guy say in the why arnt u all in 8 mans post that when he plays w the pros they tell him his build sucks, drop pulse and AC's. Sh*t those are the only weapons I like to use. Someone explain to me how the founders can have a general consensus that a number of weapons systems are sub-par for 8 man competition (pseudo-clan wars), and yet the ones they prefer are not overpowered. If there was balance, all the weapons would have a role at the high competition level, albeit in situational capacities.

[Knights0fNi]

All this is but to say "I am not good at this game, I have no interest in learning to be good, I have no patience, I should be able to win right away and win often. I should not have to play against people better than me because I might lose a lot and that would make me feel bad. If I feel bad I wont play this game. I don't like it when people on the other team work together because it helps them win and I want to win"

When did people begin to expect to pick up a game and win right away? Every MP game I have played extensively started with me getting my teeth kicked in for a good while before I started to do well. When did that change? When did people start feeling that they have a right not to lose to superior teamwork?

1. PUGs and PreMades: I pug a lot, or often run with only one friend. Mostly I play this way, and its rare to have more than one friend on at a time. My win ratio is high and I very often see teams of complete pugs or small groups (2, 2mans and 4 pugs say) stomp the snot out of another pug group because the pugs don't follow very simple tactics like sticking together. Separate and die, simple. The pugs then often get on chat and say YOU JERKY 8 MAN SYNC DROPPING LRM STREAK ECM PREEMIES etc. Try questioning your tactics instead of assuming if you keep losing over and over that its not your fault. It is. Seems to me it is poor players who want an easy mode where they can just fight other people who refuse to learn the ins and outs of the game or play in a tactical way. Victory mostly comes not from individual piloting skill in this game, but from teamwork. If you can't stomach that, don't play. Even the coming matchmaker will not help you if you cant learn to stick together and fight strategically, but it should help people who are willing to learn as they will get a chance to try out more things against similarly new or just plain bad opponents.

2. LRMS/STREAKS: This is a game designed to reward tactics and strategic play not 'skill' in the sense of aiming. Its how you leverage the tools available in the game that is skill in MWO. This is by design. If you feel that skill in aiming is the only legitimate type of skill then this game is not for you. If lock on weapons seem unfair to you this is not the game for you and never will be. Its not a test of your ability to destroy another player in one on one combat, its a test of your ability to work with your team to dismantle the enemy team by use of various tactics. LRMs are one legitimate option in the arsenal of tactics a team or player can use (and it has many counters). This will never change, if you don't like it you probably wont like this game. Oh and as an aside, high damage totals from lrms mean almost nothing. Its putting the damage where it counts that matters. A 2x guass player might get quite low damage numbers but a lot of kills because he just takes out the CT. An LRM player may get tons of damage but not really kill anyone cause all that damage is spread over the whole mech on multiple enemies.

3. XYZ weapon is no good QQ: Keep in mind balancing of heat, damage and projectile speeds is ongoing patch to patch. It says beta in big blue letters on the icon for a reason. Read the command chair posts. If you are unhappy with some weapons being underpowered because they haven't revived enough Dev TLC yet or are uncomfortable with playing a fluctuating game, don't play in the beta.

At the end of the day, what you are saying is: "I don't like this game because winning is hard and takes thought and teamwork, please change it so that isn't the case and I can win by running out, guns blazing".

If you aren't happy playing a tactics and teamwork based game, I respectfully put it to you that there are a ton of other games out there that are just what you are looking for. Please don't come in here demanding that this game change to suit a totally different style of play than is advertised.

I am not making a coment about the relative worth of such games (I also happen to love Halo and although it has a strong team component, it is also very skill-at-aiming based and allows a single very good player to carry a whole team under certain circumstances.) I am just saying "Here is a different type of game, why not learn to be good at it as it is instead of demanding it change so as to fit your own ideal of what is fun"

It is not illegitimate to design a game where superior tactics and teamwork yield superior results.

Edited by Knights0fNi, 22 December 2012 - 10:15 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

I really appreciate the well worded and thoughtful response Knight. I am afraid you may have mischaracterized my position though.

I do think a factor of ones success in an fps, should be aiming their darn guns.. yep. Even in wot we skoffed at "auto aim nubs" because once youve learned how, you can do far better manually aiming.

I, in my posts, stated a ten % success rate of pariaha tactics would be ammendable. I find it hard to see where I said, I expect to win, in any shape or form. I'll get better, slowly.

Theres no way around arguing 4 man teams in a 8v8 game give far too much influence of said group over the outcome.. (see orig. post) I did fine mb a 60% win rate with one buddy. I appreciate that you do very well with just one pal, so why argue to the bone that 4 mans are ok as is. If you were doubled, and your pal, given your presumed skill, no pub team would stand a chance, regardless of what your 4 pubs do.

Ands I have to say that my only interpretation of your weapons arguments are that auto aim long range weapons taht take far less effort, but net far more damage and success are ok because... "this game is not designed to reward aiming".

Wow, thats some FPS you helped beta test there..... helped create... helped shape. Don't even bother with the its a sim argument. I found enough posts to convince me that faulty argument has been abandoned.

But but, its a beta... its released... its advertizsed everywhere... they seem to be putting more effort into create mechs you need real dollars to buy, than they are with fixing the broken netcode (you know, the foundation of every fps). It really makes it hard to aim you know... BUT HEY This isn't a fps about aiming right, its about not moving more than 20 yards from a guy who thinks sitting near his spawn is entertaining. Sweet.... lol.

[Kraven Kor]

By this time next year, I expect us to have regenerating health, force fields, and "death" will merely be your mech kind of standing there smoking until a friendly mech is able to stand next to you for a second, regenerating health to full.

[Lon3Wo1f]

SlXSlXSlX, on 21 December 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

<snip>
But but, its a beta... its released... its advertizsed everywhere... they seem to be putting more effort into create mechs you need real dollars to buy, than they are with fixing the broken netcode (you know, the foundation of every fps). It really makes it hard to aim you know... BUT HEY This isn't a fps about aiming right, its about not moving more than 20 yards from a guy who thinks sitting near his spawn is entertaining. Sweet.... lol.

Why do you insist on ignoring obvious facts? The people who create Mechs, the 3D artists, render specialists (or whatever titles they have) likely have zero knowledge of netcode. What do you want, PGI to fire them and hire in more netcode people so the game stagnates until this one area is to your satisfaction? That's not how it works. They have a team that work on their own areas and while it isn't ideal that's how it is in MWO and almost every other game. Heck that's how it works in almost every program created on a large budget.

[Knights0fNi]

SlXSlXSlX, on 21 December 2012 - 12:24 PM, said:

I really appreciate the well worded and thoughtful response Knight. I am afraid you may have mischaracterized my position though.

I do think a factor of ones success in an fps, should be aiming their darn guns.. yep. Even in wot we skoffed at "auto aim nubs" because once youve learned how, you can do far better manually aiming.

I, in my posts, stated a ten % success rate of pariaha tactics would be ammendable. I find it hard to see where I said, I expect to win, in any shape or form. I'll get better, slowly.

Theres no way around arguing 4 man teams in a 8v8 game give far too much influence of said group over the outcome.. (see orig. post) I did fine mb a 60% win rate with one buddy. I appreciate that you do very well with just one pal, so why argue to the bone that 4 mans are ok as is. If you were doubled, and your pal, given your presumed skill, no pub team would stand a chance, regardless of what your 4 pubs do.

Ands I have to say that my only interpretation of your weapons arguments are that auto aim long range weapons taht take far less effort, but net far more damage and success are ok because... "this game is not designed to reward aiming".

Wow, thats some FPS you helped beta test there..... helped create... helped shape. Don't even bother with the its a sim argument. I found enough posts to convince me that faulty argument has been abandoned.

But but, its a beta... its released... its advertizsed everywhere... they seem to be putting more effort into create mechs you need real dollars to buy, than they are with fixing the broken netcode (you know, the foundation of every fps). It really makes it hard to aim you know... BUT HEY This isn't a fps about aiming right, its about not moving more than 20 yards from a guy who thinks sitting near his spawn is entertaining. Sweet.... lol.

Your biggest mistake is thinking that this is an FPS game. It is not. Its a combat piloting simulator. Like a jet-figter game. You wouldn't get mad a top gun game for having lock-on missiles why in this game? It is designed to simulate a wide variety of weapons, and teamwork and tactics are rewarded far more heavily than the ability to aim, on purpose. If you dont like that its not a game for you. Are you saying that making a game where teamwork + tactics > aiming is unfair or should never be done?

Regarding impact of teams goes, the fact that teamwork has a large impact on play is (once again) BY DESIGN. It is deliberately rewarded heavily. This is on purpose. I don't know how to put it any better. People who work as a team well deserve to absolutely stomp those who don't because this a game where teamwork is designed to be a primary key to success. If you don't want to play a game where you need to exhibit good teamwork and the team that does this the most will almost always win, then DON'T PLAY. This game will never be a free for all rumble pit, its always going to be a game where if you cant act as a team and play the game smart you will lose every single time.

As far as beta goes, the fact that it says beta means its a beta. Its the devs telling you THIS IS NOT FINISHED. For you to put your fingers in your ears and say, but you're advertising it and taking money so I am going to ignore the word beta on the sign and expect a full game, is incomprehensible. If you don't want to play an unfinished game, come back when its not a beta.

All that being said, I think you will find things much improved when the matchmaker is out. It will allow you to play only against other people who dont yet understand how to win, untill you start learning the tactics that lead to success. This will allow you to learn without being stomped into the mud over and over as much.

[Edited for formatting and typos]

Edited by Knights0fNi, 22 December 2012 - 10:13 AM.

[SlXSlXSlX]

L O L...

1. It is an FPS (are you crazy). Not even worth expanding on. You are jaw droppingly ignorant to argue otherwise.

2. stop playing.. peep the stats. Havnt logged a game in 2 days (I have stopped). Forgot how much fun a game that does not have lag hard coded into it can be. (World of tanks)

3. The lag should be expected? It is ok to have them spending 80% of their effort taking your money, and 20% fixing the product their trying to take your money with.

This level of netcode error, is alpha sh*t. Even wot, on day one of their year + long beta, had functional non laggy netcode. Closest issue we had was the beta server was in Europe and that wasnt fun to connect to. Here that isnt the excuse, the damn lag is hard coded into the game, and they dont have people in their company who seem to know how to fix it.

Anyone throwing money at this game should seriously consider the possibiltiy the game will be just this sh*t laggy a year from now. So I am back to tanks. I may be back but dont hold your breath.

Have fun pub stomping your community into oblivion, in Lag Warrior Online.

[Jaynis]

You are the exact same type of person that ruins the World of Tanks forums as well. You're the same kind of person that does nothing but cry and cry about Russian Bias, or Pay to Win tanks, or even the "NERF ARTY NERF ARTY NERF ARTY."

Did you know, you can sync drop in World of Tanks too? I've faced entire clans on a single team before.

And not to mention that without putting money into the game, up until about a year ago, you weren't even able to play with friends? They did finally change it though, took them awhile, but non-premium accounts can play with ONE other person.

Not to mention that massive, massive balancing issues that stem from every single patch they have. Remember the droves of Type 59s? The droves of T54s on a single team? Of the Batchat rampages that occurred because someone put enough money in the game they instantly had Tier 9 and 10 tanks when they came out.

I've played both games since Closed Beta, and thus far MWO is doing a MUCH better job than what Wargaming dished out. The only complaint I have for MWO is lack long term content, which WILL come. I liek both games but I far prefer MWO over WoT. Better dev and community involvement, and Mechs are sooo much more awesome than WW2 and Cold War Era tanks.


It isn't something I'm going to make ridiculous conjectures about day in and out on the forums.

Edited by 7thD3adlyS1n, 22 December 2012 - 10:51 AM.

[Zero Neutral]

This is a triple decker QQ sandwich with TT sauce, hold the wah.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Youve faced entire clans sync dropping in tanks.. i know KNOW that occurs.. in 1/100 or 1 in 300 games, more often, theyre split in 2-3 games vsing mostly eachother, but you wouldnt know that because you never ascended to that "level".

The no teamamte thing, they did that for the exact same reason your leaking new players like a siv. They realized new entrants didnt want to be forced to get pro immediately or QQ go back to your old titles. Wot wanted their business, and "look at their server numbers, bc they dont hide their counter), it worked.

Th59 54 and bat spam, each was prevalent when it first came out, people bought them and spammed them, then they got nerfed. Regardlss, on day one we saw them as fresh meat. Why? Because if you play a lagless game you can place precision shots. You ever hear of a tracking shot, or ever see a bat tracked, and what happens next?

But you never even hit a t50-2 moving max speed broadside..... WHY?

Well it doesnt have auto aim like your precious lrms so you cant perform.

If anything so far, you have created a game which dramatically rewards camping over participation.

If you have played both games, but like this more, you apparently thinking imbalanced and laggy games are competitive in the 2013 gaming market, and your mentality, will be fatal for this title.

It is a QQ sandwich. This game has alot of potential in some ways (customization), but tahts about it. If the play experience isnt changed on 7 different levels, it will be DOA, if it even ever leaves pseudo-beta.

Keep berrating new players opinions, some day you'll see the player counter, and see the results of your handiwork.

[Jaynis]

But there is auto-aim in World of Tanks..not to mention Artillery in World of tanks is FAR FAR more deadly than in here. I mean, you can sit back, and one shot enemy tanks from a birds eye view. LRMs are far more involved than that. Sure it is lock on based, but its not a one hit kill. It requires constant lock to even to maximum damage, and Artemis needs LOS just to work. Its just as involved and not any easier. LRMs are pure support,

Hell, I've hit a T-50-2 with a KV-2's Derp gun while it was at full speed. I do the same to Light Mech's in here. IN fact, in CB of WoT, I had both the Maus and T30, now in full release, I have the IS4, T110E4, and the M48 Patton. 3 tier X tanks. I have others but not nearly as far progressed.

World of Tanks is far grindier than this game as well. You failed to address the level 4-6 grind that exists in that game. Its slightly improved since last August, but back before that landing bottom of a team time and time again, in a tank that can hardly penetrate 2/3rds of the enemy tanks, was a crap shoot.

But this isn't WoT, so it isn't relevant. Similiar F2P model no doubt, but it isn't the same game, and plays quite different.

Part of most of the lag whine is location based. Netcode DOES need improvement, but right now there is only one sever location.

Canada.

Do you SERIOUSLY, think, no are you SO NAIVE as to think that is always how it is going to be? A single Canadian sever for a worldwide audience?

And no, I don't berate new players opinions. But what you call your opinions, you keep trying to push off as end all be all facts.

You can have criticisms, you can have justified opinions, but the moment you try to pass them off as facts, facts that have a 100% guarantee of this game's future, then I will berate them at will.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Wot auto aim is commonly know as inferior to well placed manual shots, read my posts in full so you can respond effectively. Seriously glad someone here can make precision shots.. tagging tack 2s.

Wot is grindier? How about mwo... in mwo you will have any mech u want mastered in 2 weeks. You are the "i want it now" crowd.

Tier 4-6 was easy if u could place precision shots well, ie do well, ie score well.. could be from 4 to 5 in 1 day, 5 to 6 the next. Easy.

And as to playing with pals.. they say... graphics suck, no 3rd person view, and the lag are the reasons mwo isnt fun. So they arnt signing in.

You really mean to tell me you think this game can succeed without an enjoyable single player exprience... not single player campaign but I mean, that it is fun to play solo. o many gamers out there dont have the time, have families, jobs, etc so many reasons they arnt hardcore ts using gamers. You think losing ALL of them is good for your community, or for PGI's bottom line? Really? REALLY???

[BarackaFlockaFlame]

Don't do it. You're too young to die. Life is precious. Go take a walk in the woods or something. Get a dog.