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Battle Of The Assault Mechs: Who Wins Most Of The Time?


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#21 Sarevos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:51 AM

View PostKhobai, on 20 December 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:


Obviously. Thats why it takes 3 volleys to down an Atlas. If SRMs didnt spread out you could kill an Atlas in 1-2 volleys.

right but his weapons can pinpoint and while youre staring him in the face to fire the first shot he will head shot you If hes as good of a shot as you are or simply punch your armor since you carry significantly less than he does and many of his weapons will be rather spammable

#22 Khobai

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

Quote

right but his weapons can pinpoint


yeah because its not like the stalker has 5 medium lasers or anything. the SRMs are just for opening them up. The medlas are for pinpointing.

Atlas D-DC with x2 medlas, x3 srm6, and x1 AC/20 is the most burst damage an Atlas can do. So thats 30 pinpoint damage and 45 spread damage. And if youre using anything besides a D-DC you fail because ECM is absurdly overpowered and theres no reason not to use it.

While the Stalker 5M is doing 25 pinpoint damage and 75 spread damage. So yeah the Stalker is doing 5 less pinpoint damage but is doing MASSIVELY more spread damage. And if that spread damage hits a destroyed side torso it still transfers inward anyway.

Edited by Khobai, 20 December 2012 - 08:02 AM.


#23 Calon Farstar

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:01 AM

Depends on the pilot and the terrain.

#24 STRONG LIKE BEAR

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:05 AM

View PostKhobai, on 20 December 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

The Stalker does ludicrous damage compared to the Atlas and in any 1v1 situation the Atlas has no chance whatsoever


Uhh, no.

I exclusively pilot Atlases, I have yet to die to a stalker, and to be honest I rank them along side the Awesome -- down in the "Free Kill" or "Food" category

#25 Sarevos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:05 AM

burst is not the only type of damage UAC5s are disgusting over the course of a fight and it can mount 2 take sustained fire and accidently lose a torso or an arm and thats about all she wrote man the stalker would not posses any capability outside of 270 and you wouldnt even know where he is under ecm therefore surprising him or finding him for that matter would be difficult hed likely get the drop on you and hammer you outside of your range also atlas is capable of the same speed as the stalker so even with the ac20 which does full damage at 270 you need to be at round 180 to do real damage with those streaks and he can run about as fast as you if you are on the same level of skill and 1v1 ecm makes it impossible to know where he is in cover and hard to track him and with the 5ms small torso twist he can actually out maneuver you

#26 Purlana

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

View PostSarevos, on 20 December 2012 - 07:51 AM, said:

right but his weapons can pinpoint and while youre staring him in the face to fire the first shot he will head shot you If hes as good of a shot as you are or simply punch your armor since you carry significantly less than he does and many of his weapons will be rather spammable


If even half of his salvo hits the CT, that's 38 DMG. Add in small or medium lasers and we are looking at 63 CT DMG in one salvo...

Edited by Purlana, 20 December 2012 - 08:09 AM.


#27 Sarevos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

its fine to like your mech but understand its limitations lol

#28 Omni Tek

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

I dunno I took the trial stalker out for a few spins and the only think that really got me where fast mediums, atlases where too slow and awesomes make a nice wide target.

P.S I'm not very good at the game to boot.

#29 Sarevos

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:08 AM

View PostPurlana, on 20 December 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:


Who cares, if even half of his salvo hits the CT, that's 38 DMG. Add in small or medium lasers and we are looking at 63 CT DMG in one salvo...

against 108 armor vs the stalkers 86

#30 Lanessar

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:08 AM

View PostNik Kerensky, on 20 December 2012 - 07:03 AM, said:

Soo, based on the current (proposed) stable of Assaults, who wins the majority of these one on one fights (assuming certain factors like pilot skill relatively constant), and how do you reckon these brawls go down:

- Atlas vs Stalker
Stalker wins in a head-to-head match quite frequently. This is situational; if the Atlas is highly mobile, able to use cover, or is a more skilled pilot, then the Atlas will win. Standing 100m apart blasting away, the STK's pure frontal laser fire is just insane and melts CT armor like a hot knife through butter. I've seen a 4xLL 2xML STK take the damage of two salvos from a brawler Atlases laser and SRM fire, return fire in two salvos and core him with 0 CT damage before the incident started. The Atlas is better when not charging straight up to the Stalker, but using it's lack of torso twist against it.

-Atlas vs Highlander

Wish I could comment, but we're missing a lot of information on the details of implementation. It's pure speculation. A pilot skilled with DFA in a highlander (if it were implemented) would be insane; based on straight weapon loadouts, I think an Atlas would leave it a smoking pile of scrap.

-Awesome vs Stalker

The 4xSRM variant with LL backup would give a STK a run for it's money. The sheer alpha potential of the 9M variant coupled with higher speed and manuverability, with a greater range of movement with the arm-mounted weapons, give the AWS a great advantage. Again, situational; if it's 300-400m apart, blasting away, I think the STK's additional 5 tons and focused weapon fire would destroy key components in the AWS, (arm lasers, for example) reducing it's damage considerably. The STK is a pretty compact mech, hard to cripple - the AWS big shoulders make it an easier target to hit the weapon-bearing arm.

-Awesome vs Highlander

- Atlas vs Awesome

So far, the odds have favored the Atlas. They generally have a more robust heat model, and the variety of weapons and diversity of hard points as well as more armor generally favor the ATL in frontal, no-nonsense brawls. Skill of pilot is the primary determination, however, as I've taken down both AWS and Atlas with a Dragon...

- Awesome vs Highlander

Looking forward to some solid analysis/rationale!


#31 Purlana

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:14 AM

View PostSarevos, on 20 December 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

against 108 armor vs the stalkers 86


With an Alpha like that it won't take long to get through the armor of either mech.

Edited by Purlana, 20 December 2012 - 08:15 AM.


#32 Broceratops

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:28 AM

i dont think an analysis based on 2 mechs facing each other shooting is correct. thats how it plays out most of the time because pilots are bad, but in my experience stalkers are pretty terrible because they're lucky to get through an arm before my atlas neuters them.

the problem with the stalker is that every location has a bunch of weapons and its really easy to RT/LT one since the arms are tiny. so there's very little you can do to prevent losing half your weapons in a couple broadside hits especially when you also consider it cant turn very far and its slow (it is not faster than the atlas. atlas can mount up to a 360, the stalker is limited to a 310. the weight of the engine is mostly irrelevant because in a 350 engine atlas, you can mount the same weapons as in 300 engine so there is no tradeoff)

compared to the atlas, on the arms all you have is one puny medium laser. so you can shield all day with that thing while waiting for the torso weapons to reload, and if you lose the arm, who cares? and especially with srms and laser weapons, you will not be getting much torso damage through to an atlas facing you with his arm. with a ballistic you might be able to sneak a shot through to the torso but that's not an option with stalkers.

so what i'm saying is if anyone's evidence on how good the stalker is is based on CTing some atlas, it was probably just a bad pilot. against a good pilot the atlas is near unbeatable 1v1 because they'll make you go through a lot of useless armor before you actually do meaningful damage, and all the while you have to avoid a series of potentially devastating alpha strikes.

Edited by Broceratops, 20 December 2012 - 09:02 AM.


#33 Zoom2136

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:32 AM

The big problem with the Stalker is that you cannot get that torso to twist enough to tightly circle an opponent.

#34 Lee Ving

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:39 AM

View PostNik Kerensky, on 20 December 2012 - 07:06 AM, said:

oh dont be such a negative nancy, brighten up a little and untangle those panties!

This thread is to mechwarrior what bench racing is to racing your car on Monza.

Keep it up, someday you'll be an indycar driver!

#35 Pinkydinky

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:43 AM

View PostZoom2136, on 20 December 2012 - 08:32 AM, said:

The big problem with the Stalker is that you cannot get that torso to twist enough to tightly circle an opponent.


Faced a stalker in my atlas-rs. Even with enemy missiles hitting me I still took him out 1v1. I just circled, kept hitting him with 4xMPLs, showing him my sides/arms before quickly twisting to hit his torsos with gauss and SRMS. After I blew up one torso (and its very easy to focus fire on a side torso without it spreading over to the CT) it quickly went my way. He was trying to destroy my gauss but his shots kept spreading all over and my CT absorbed quite a bit, allowing me to keep my weapons longer.

#36 Lightfoot

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:46 AM

There is no Highlander yet. There is a lack of assault mech balance in MWO. There are no Double Heatsinks so you can't compete in an energy assault, even if you do manage a win now and then.

Atlas rooollllzzzzzz!

#37 Chacatumbi

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:47 AM

ECM DDC Duh

#38 Battalia

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:52 AM

I have not died to an Atlas or awesome in 1v1 with my Stalker yet. I actually usually come out of it with great armor left.

Set-up is:
2XLL for plinking at range / snap shots

4XSRM6 for killing.

Yes I rock an XL, but it only takes 2-3 SRM salvo's to get into the juicy parts of an Atlas or Awesome. My last 2 games last night was:

Went off to the right (heading north east) on forest map, entire team went left. Found an Atlas coming out of my end of the tunnel, so I turned him into scrap. He had ECM though so my artemis did nothing, but he still died. Went through the cave and into enemy spawn, nothing, started flanking and ended up in a tussel solo VS 2 stalkers and a cataphract. Cata took 2 SRM salvo's and died, Stalker overheated and took 2 and died, then the final one killed me from behind. Stalkers are just mean.

2nd match was river city, went Northwest to the mining rig there, ended up with ANOTHER Atlas with ECM! first off and a catapult plinking from behind. Again, same story, SRM's took out the side torso but he didn't go down, but lucky me another side torso shot goes to internals and sent him packing anyways. Cata seen the demise of his friend and ran (lol?) from that point I tussled with a raven who ended up fleeing as well and then I took on an awesome (from behind) and sent him packing after 2 salvo's as well.

Yes, the awesome and Atlas are 'Mechs to be feared... But the Stalker just packs SO much ordinance it can cut right through their survivability and cut them down much earlier than they expect. The humanoid forms don't help them at all, it is much easier to pack in a SRM pack into where I want it to go than any other 'Mech.

My stalker does not fear assault 'Mechs.

#39 QuantumButler

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:52 AM

View PostSTRONG LIKE BEAR, on 20 December 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:


Uhh, no.

I exclusively pilot Atlases, I have yet to die to a stalker, and to be honest I rank them along side the Awesome -- down in the "Free Kill" or "Food" category


It's true Bear, PROVIDED the stalker pilot has a non **** build and knows what he's doing.

Most people try to boat lrms on stalkers and/or try to drive them like atlases, and end up as easy kills for anyone with half a brain.

They're glass cannons to be sure, but at least have overwhelming firepower, unlike the poor, useless awesome.

#40 Andarist

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:59 AM

View PostSarevos, on 20 December 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

thats someone doing something wrong he obviously didnt take you seriously enough a square alpha would have put you in bad straits or killed you with a head shot its not your mech but your piloting that was superior. Stalker up close will lose to an atlas properly outfitted for CQC too much more armor you cant stand toe to toe you have to be maneuverable again you must be the superior pilot. this is a straight matchup on even skills with the different mechs


again you must be proficient enough to get in real close and drive all those missiles to a localized spot which is quite hard with even skills the atlas with CQC in mind will core you with direct fire weapons while you pepper him with missiles and probe with MLS


That's why I'm running my stalker with 6 large lasers. I have surprised plenty of atlases with that loadout. And sure, I overheat after a couple of alphas, but the atlas I'm fighting normally either gets blown to bits when I power up again, or by my teammates after I've stripped the armour from his torso (I tend to favour right torso shots)
And yes, I know I'm insane to run with 6 lls but it's super fun and I can practically see the look of surprise on enemy mech pilots as I drill them with a couple alphas. Sometimes I'll throw on chain fire to make them think I've got missiles loaded too, which is fun because then they try to snuggle in nice and close, but I'll normally just go full bore until I overheat, because either I go down fighting or they do, and the net end result is damage done, cbills earned





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