80 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

One Medic Army, on 20 December 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

Well, there's a niche for PPC in the "I've just been shot... WHERE THE HELL DID MY TORSO GO!" category.

IF the hit detection works right, I hear theres some issues

[Brilig]

I kinda have to agree that LL feel good where they are at. Lowering heat on PPCs and the other LL types, even a little bit should make carrying 1 or two of them a lot more viable. Hopefully it will be just enough to keep them from being boated in a really effective manner.

[SpiralRazor]

der langsamere, on 20 December 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

ERPPC at 10 heat ... wasnt that where the clan version was? 10 heat 15 damage or something like that?

15/15

[Pugastrius]

Quote

I still think the PPC/ERPPC could use a cooldown increase as they recycle a tad fast. Maybe from every 3 seconds to every 4. By only changing that stat, you can get the same cooling effect (at the cost of DPS) without changing heat values or burst damage.

People can currently "Choose" to not shoot for 4 seconds to get that benefit, or they can "choose" to have added damage now. Removing that choice would be a huge nerf to the PPC...

I agree that the PPC does have that strength Medic, but 2xLL uses about the same heat as an ER-PPC and deals even more damage.

[SpiralRazor]

Pugastrius, on 20 December 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

LOL no...

Jack of All trades: Large Laser
Short range weapon of choice: Large Laser
Beam Sniper weapon of choice: Large Laser
Mid-range weapon of choice: Large Laser
Sniper weapon of choice: Large Laser

Right now, if you're doing it differently, you're doing it wrong.

The Large Laser currently does more damage at any range for the heat it generates.

Its not the sniper weapon of choice....at 900 your really not doing all that much, and i commonly was able to inflict serious damage at 1200-1300 with my 4X utilizing AC/2s or 5s.

Id say large laser is best as a medium range sniper....real long range still goes to PPCs and the small bore ACs.

[SteelPaladin]

Pugastrius, on 20 December 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

The Large Laser currently does more damage at any range for the heat it generates.

A large laser has a DPH (damage per heat) of ~1.29. A medium laser has a DPH of 1.25. That's paying 4 extra tons for a DPH increase of 0.04.

Medium lasers are still the most overall efficient weapon in the game for engagements under 300m.


Back to the initial post of the thread, LLs are really not all that bad for ranged combat, heat-wise. I used to run 3 on my CTF-1X w/16 DHS and the heat was manageable. You can't run them constantly on cooldown, but PGI doesn't seem to want anything bigger than a medium laser to be able to do that.

I could live w/ER LLs being 9 heat if the ER portion really meant something (like a burn duration drop to push their accuracy higher than a standard LL).

They'll never change the tonnage, though. It would break stock builds and that's too much of a hassle for them to deal with. Damage, fire rate, burn time, and heat are the only things that will ever be changed on lasers.

[SkyCake]

Remove the minimum from the ppc and put it on the erppc...

make ppc 8 heat, erppc 9 heat..

ppc range 480, erppc range stays as is...

DONE!

[SpiralRazor]

Brilig, on 20 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

I kinda have to agree that LL feel good where they are at. Lowering heat on PPCs and the other LL types, even a little bit should make carrying 1 or two of them a lot more viable. Hopefully it will be just enough to keep them from being boated in a really effective manner.

Boating is a myth that bad players like to regurgitate.

Listen up noobs, there is NO such thing as boating....there are plenty of Canon builds that specialize in one weapons system, and only have a small to no amount of back up weapons. Stop reading TRO3025 and get your hands on some updated books.

[Pugastrius]

Quote

A large laser has a DPH (damage per heat) of ~1.29. A medium laser has a DPH of 1.25. That's paying 4 extra tons for a DPH increase of 0.04.

Sorry you miss-understood. I meant of the alternatives listed (LL, LPL, ER-LL, PPC, ER-PPC.

I agree MLs are incredibly useful especially considering the bulk of combat happens between 0-250 meters.

[PanzerMonkey]

SpiralRazor, on 20 December 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Oh my...you are ignorant arent ya lol....Ive been here a long time now, and I dont trust them to test batteries anymore after what ive experienced.

I told Paul what needed to be done with the energy weapons months, and literally months ago and its taken this long to see some light.

No my friend, his numbers need to be released to the beta community...some of us who can actually do math will know next to instantly if the change is good, bad, overpowered or will relegate a weapon to flamer status.

You should read up on the Dunning-Kruger effect.

[Vassago Rain]

Nuck Fewton, on 20 December 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

did they ever give a real reason for no 2.0 heatsinks? I mean besides the "jenner coring a atlas in 3 seconds" crap? Said jenner still gets the 2.0 sinks and still cannot core a atlas in 3 seconds.

They want to push goldsinks down the line. Garth got mad when we had a very cynical thread about this.
Or they don't understand the math.
Or they're egotripping to the point where math and sense doesn't matter (bioware style), and we're gonna have 1.4 because they said we're gonna have 1.4.
Or they've said '**** it, leave the system as is. We can't balance this ****, so stop trying. Everybody will have to adapt, both us and them.'

Basically, it doesn't matter anymore. We seem to be stuck on it for now, and if they insist on altering the heat levels on all weapons, instead of giving us truedubs everywhere, well...that's their problem. The end result will be the same for the mechs that are really hurting from heat, which are the assault mechs.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

SteelPaladin, on 20 December 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

, but PGI doesn't seem to want anything bigger than a medium laser to be able to do that.

youd think theyd fix that given thats the thing keeping us from 2.0 dhs from what theyve said

Vassago Rain, on 20 December 2012 - 04:08 PM, said:

They want to push goldsinks down the line. Garth got mad when we had a very cynical thread about this.
Or they don't understand the math.
Or they're egotripping to the point where math and sense doesn't matter (bioware style), and we're gonna have 1.4 because they said we're gonna have 1.4.
Or they've said '**** it, leave the system as is. We can't balance this ****, so stop trying. Everybody will have to adapt, both us and them.'

Basically, it doesn't matter anymore. We seem to be stuck on it for now, and if they insist on altering the heat levels on all weapons, instead of giving us truedubs everywhere, well...that's their problem. The end result will be the same for the mechs that are really hurting from heat, which are the assault mechs.

Goldsinks? Wanna explain that? An you got a link to that thread?
I hate being out of likes. Stupid daily like limit

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 20 December 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

der langsamere, on 20 December 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

ERPPC at 10 heat ... wasnt that where the clan version was? 10 heat 15 damage or something like that?

IS

PPC - 10 damage, 10 heat
ERPPC - 10 damage, 15 heat

CLAN

ERPPC - 15 damage, 15 heat

[Soy]

Pugastrius, on 20 December 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:

LOL no...

Jack of All trades: Large Laser
Short range weapon of choice: Large Laser
Beam Sniper weapon of choice: Large Laser
Mid-range weapon of choice: Large Laser
Sniper weapon of choice: Large Laser

Right now, if you're doing it differently, you're doing it wrong.

The Large Laser currently does more damage at any range for the heat it generates.

If you think a LL is as efficient for light swatting as a LPL, I don't really know what to say.

Again, the roles are pretty much there already. We're talking about slight tweaks to heat, not dramatic changes to roles/utility. Derp?

[SteelPaladin]

Pugastrius, on 20 December 2012 - 04:04 PM, said:

Sorry you miss-understood. I meant of the alternatives listed (LL, LPL, ER-LL, PPC, ER-PPC.

I agree MLs are incredibly useful especially considering the bulk of combat happens between 0-250 meters.

Oh. Yeah, the LL stomps the other options on that list. Standard PPCs are a bit better w/the projectile speed boost, but they still need a bit more love. Forget ERs.

[Buckminster]

I dunno, I love my ERPPCs. That being said, I'm much better at leading a target and hitting them with a single shot than I am at hitting them and keeping my reticule on target for the beam duration, and the no minimum range makes ERPPCs fantastic. I can't count how many mechs closed in thinking that getting under the minimum range was the way to go, only to have me core them.

[Lefty Lucy]

If they're going to maintain minimum range on PPCs, it needs to be dropped down to like 30 meters.

[Draxtier]

Not having posted or discussed the exact numbers was a clear and deliberate choice. When they've gotten far enough in the adjustment process that they're ready to release those details, they'll be released.

[LarkinOmega]

Garth Erlam, on 20 December 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

While the balance-wanting-player in me likes the heat levels as-is, the CDA-2A 6xML user in me would salivate to have our old 2.0 rates live.

Hellooooooo never letting go of the trigger!

So you're saying that 3 (.6*5) to 4.2 (.6*7) extra heat dissipation will make it so you can never stop firing?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 December 2012 - 04:25 PM, said:

If they're going to maintain minimum range on PPCs, it needs to be dropped down to like 30 meters.

Well yeah why are they sticking so hard core with TT in NEEDING a min range on these when there are plenty of areas theyve broken out of the TT shell when it came right down to it?