65 replies to this topic

[Zylo]

PGI, it is clear that players will continue to sync-drop 4+4 groups in the random "small-group/lone-wolf" matches until a fix is put in place to stop this. Other posts have popped up complaining about this sync-drop problem but have not offered reasonable solutions to the problem.


A simple fix for the random weight matched drops for small-group/lone-wolf matches:
1) Allow no more than 1 pre-made group on each team.

A more complicated fix could better solve balance issues for small-group/lone-wolf matches:
1) Allow no more than 1 pre-made group on each team.
2) Place an equal number of pre-made groups on each team (0 or 1).
3) When possible* match the pre-made group size by number of players.

*If exact match is not possible +/-1 player matching could be used. A pre-made group of 3 could face another pre-made group of 2, 3 or 4 while a pre-made group of 4 would only face a pre-made group of 4 or 3.

Even with the simple fix this would force an end to sync-drop groups on the same team. This would balance the game for both the small group players and the lone-wolf (pug) players. This could also have the side effect of forcing some 4+4 sync-drop groups back into the 8vs8 pre-made drops.


If something is not done soon to fix the sync-drop problems, the number of players will drop to the point that a group of 8 can drop against anyone just like in closed beta. Phase 3 ELO matchmaking will not work if there are too few players to make it work.

This isn't a threat to quit if changes aren't made but it should be very clear that players are unhappy with the sync-drop 4+4 teams still being allowed continue.

[Vassago Rain]

But if you guarantee one premade per team, then they'll be even madder that they can't ninjacap or farm kills.

[Wormrex]

Stop trolling him rain XD

Folks need to realise the match making topic has already been addressed by the dev ; their solution is phase 3 coming end of Jan, fingers crossed.It isn't perfect but it ease the pressure just enough for everyone to be comfy. So before that, enjoy the 'end of the world' and if that doesn't happen, enjoy Christmas! XD

And have a Happy New Year! 3050 SOON!

[Vosje]

Vassago Rain, on 21 December 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

But if you guarantee one premade per team, then they'll be even madder that they can't ninjacap or farm kills.

Don't worry. I don't doubt we will hear from them on this forum.
(And then all of us know who they are.)

[Zylo]

Well, I guess in theory 1 of the pre-made teams could try to ninja-cap which would leave their lone-wolf players facing the entire enemy team which might make it sort of like farming for the pre-made group that decided to fight rather than ninja-cap.

How often would that actually happen though since base cap rewards are so low?

[Vassago Rain]

Vosje, on 21 December 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

Don't worry. I don't doubt we will hear from them on this forum.
(And then all of us know who they are.)

But you gotta think of me, man. Think of all the responses I'll have to type out, and all the games I'll have to play against even more stupid 8 manz, that put XLs in all their mechs.

[Zylo]

Wormrex, on 21 December 2012 - 01:30 AM, said:

Stop trolling him rain XD

Folks need to realise the match making topic has already been addressed by the dev ; their solution is phase 3 coming end of Jan, fingers crossed.It isn't perfect but it ease the pressure just enough for everyone to be comfy. So before that, enjoy the 'end of the world' and if that doesn't happen, enjoy Christmas! XD

And have a Happy New Year! 3050 SOON!

I can't help but think that phase 3 matchmaker trying to match ELO ratings of players and mech weights will result in too much of this:

Failed to find a match.

[Vassago Rain]

Zylo, on 21 December 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

I can't help but think that phase 3 matchmaker trying to match ELO ratings of players and mech weights will result in too much of this:

Failed to find a match.

No ****? Add to that, it'll highlight how good some players are, and how bad others are, which will further divide the 'tiers,' if you even want to call them that.

But I guess I can live with that, if it means pubs finally won't have to put up with lame people who absolutely must farm kills and ninjacap at all costs.

[LarkinOmega]

So coming from a group that sync drops to try and get our 5-7 playing together, or our 9+ in the same match to shoot each other (srsly, we rarely have exactly 8 on, very annoying), the success rate is very low.

1/4 if you're piloting proper mechs (aka heavies in 1 group lights in the other). You can get it down to 1/2 if you've got two groups piloting the same weight classes, but that's usually on the other team. Which is exactly what this solution wants.

Honestly, it's not premade sync drops that are the problem. They're rather fun to fight against, since they're usually not all ECM mechs (like the 8 mans) and they aren't usually super serious. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times I think I've faced off against a synced group. And one of those was just now (bunch of LRMs with a good scout, when I charged them at short range they worked together decently well from what I could tell, so probably on comms), my side lost, but we killed two and I got 600+ damage so a decent payout was had.

The problem is the lack of skill for most of the playerbase. New players, troll players, people who don't understand the system, or just people who are really bad, they're the majority of the playerbase, they're the super majority of the Lone Wolf portion. That's just the way it is, and the way it will always be. So if the otherside is skilled at all, a general drop is going to get run over. This will never, ever, ever change. You can keep playing and get better, or quit and never get better. Or whine on the forums that the system is broken, or this weapon system is OP, or that mechs are invincible (yes the netcode is terrible, but you can learn to shoot around it), in the end, it is YOU that has to improve, or nothing will change.

Mount up Mechwarrior, it's your turn to drop.

[Zylo]

LarkinOmega, on 21 December 2012 - 02:04 AM, said:

So coming from a group that sync drops to try and get our 5-7 playing together, or our 9+ in the same match to shoot each other (srsly, we rarely have exactly 8 on, very annoying), the success rate is very low.

1/4 if you're piloting proper mechs (aka heavies in 1 group lights in the other). You can get it down to 1/2 if you've got two groups piloting the same weight classes, but that's usually on the other team. Which is exactly what this solution wants.

Honestly, it's not premade sync drops that are the problem. They're rather fun to fight against, since they're usually not all ECM mechs (like the 8 mans) and they aren't usually super serious. In fact, I can count on one hand the number of times I think I've faced off against a synced group. And one of those was just now (bunch of LRMs with a good scout, when I charged them at short range they worked together decently well from what I could tell, so probably on comms), my side lost, but we killed two and I got 600+ damage so a decent payout was had.

The problem is the lack of skill for most of the playerbase. New players, troll players, people who don't understand the system, or just people who are really bad, they're the majority of the playerbase, they're the super majority of the Lone Wolf portion. That's just the way it is, and the way it will always be. So if the otherside is skilled at all, a general drop is going to get run over. This will never, ever, ever change. You can keep playing and get better, or quit and never get better. Or whine on the forums that the system is broken, or this weapon system is OP, or that mechs are invincible (yes the netcode is terrible, but you can learn to shoot around it), in the end, it is YOU that has to improve, or nothing will change.

Mount up Mechwarrior, it's your turn to drop.

So, do you think it should just go back to the old way with 8 player groups fighting anything that the matchmaker decided to place on the other team?

That's what a sync-drop is in many cases. By doing sync-drops you really aren't helping and I suspect those teams you end up against when you sync-drop aren't exactly having much fun. What is going to happen when many of those less dedicated players quit the game?

I'll still be here no matter what happens with the matchmaker but I won't be happy if I'm waiting forever to find a match just because some players continue to exploit the current matchmaker issues to get an 8-player pre-made into a game where there is a low chance they will face another pre-made of equal size.

[Ilwrath]

They just need to make sure that each team get one premade. Right now it feels like the matchmaker rather puts 2 premades on one team and zero on the other. The reason why I believe this is that I take it for granted that a premade will at least bring one ECM mech and I get plenty of matches with several ECM mechs on the other team and zero on mine.

I don't consider ECM a problem at all so this is no whine about that but I think it is an easy way to see how the matchmaker ***** up.

I also suspect that they changed something with the last patch because people simply avoids the 8 vs 8 que. Kinda sad that we have all that garbage return to the ordinary que but that is a natural result of only US servers.

Edited by Ilwrath, 21 December 2012 - 02:23 AM.

[Zylo]

Ilwrath, on 21 December 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

They just need to make sure that each team get one premade. Right now it feels like the matchmaker rather puts 2 premades on one team and zero on the other. The reason why I believe this is that I take it for granted that a premade will at least bring one ECM mech and I get plenty of matches with several ECM mechs on the other team and zero on mine.

I don't consider ECM a problem at all so this is no whine about that but I think it is an easy way to see how the matchmaker ***** up.

I also suspect that they changed something with the last patch because people simply avoids the 8 vs 8 que. Kinda sad that we have all that garbage return to the ordinary que but that is a natural result of only US servers.

As I understand it some players don't want to deal with the unrestricted 8vs8 matches so that's their excuse for sync-dropping into the small group + lone wolf matches.

Location of the servers means nothing (I think they are in Canada?) the same type of player will continue to use this sort of "exploit" as long as they can get away with it. Nationalities of the players don't matter, I suspect there might be some connection to player age but even that may not be true.

[Vassago Rain]

Zylo, on 21 December 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

As I understand it some players don't want to deal with the unrestricted 8vs8 matches so that's their excuse for sync-dropping into the small group + lone wolf matches.

Location of the servers means nothing (I think they are in Canada?) the same type of player will continue to use this sort of "exploit" as long as they can get away with it. Nationalities of the players don't matter, I suspect there might be some connection to player age but even that may not be true.

They really just want to pad their stats.

[Particle Man]

Vassago Rain, on 21 December 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

But if you guarantee one premade per team, then they'll be even madder that they can't ninjacap or farm kills.

it seems more like it's the pugs that are mad that they have to try. Once PGI got rid of 4+4 drops, they would be crying about 4mans, then they would cry about something else. Thats what they do, cry about everything. Notice the threads crying about lrms, or streaks, or just about everything else? They're all from pug players. But you know that, you post in most of them.

Edited by Particle Man, 21 December 2012 - 02:37 AM.

[Zylo]

Vassago Rain, on 21 December 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

They really just want to pad their stats.

They're going to be in for a big surprise if phase 3 matchmaker uses those padded stats to match them up to other teams that are far better players.

[Ilwrath]

Zylo, on 21 December 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

Location of the servers means nothing (I think they are in Canada?) the same type of player will continue to use this sort of "exploit" as long as they can get away with it. Nationalities of the players don't matter, I suspect there might be some connection to player age but even that may not be true.

Player age is probably important and I think that the US has more kids with internet access and a game worthy pc than any other nation on earth. But I cannot see those kids teaming up much so they are more a problem when you get them on your team.

EU servers mostly hold higher standard. Just look at Guild Wars 2 and how the US guild Ruin polluted the EU servers when they moved over from the US servers. So many trashkids that don't want a challenge and will leave when they face one.

There is simply no culture for that with a pure EU population.

but enough about this or the thread will get lock.

Edited by Ilwrath, 21 December 2012 - 02:43 AM.

[KingKalvin]

Question is...whats stopping the PUGS from forming their own premades?

So easy to download teamspeak and look for team servers here in the forums.

You wanna play exclusively with your friends with voice function? Why not just download skype and run it while playing MWO.

Join a clan or a house and play with them 24/7

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thing is if you have 10 below matches under your name then its safe to assume that you are just trying out the game

You have 10 or more but you feel that having a premade can be a bit too serious for your taste? Then just accept the fact that in 10 games, you'll probably win 2-3 games.

But if you have 50+ more and you feel like you're getting stomped on by other premades then its your job to look or form your own. Hate to break it to you but casual players who go solo will always be rocked hard by premades composed of serious individuals who take this game seriously.

Then again people should try to understand that a game like MWO will be extremely competitive with groups of people trying to win 10/10 drops every gaming session. Only advantage premades have using voice chat is being to talk to teammates for a smoother gaming experience. Its not that hard to use voice chat really, its a matter of decision if you wanna look, form, or stay a loner.

[Ilwrath]

KingKalvin, on 21 December 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

Question is...whats stopping the PUGS from forming their own premades?

A game that let people join matches solo must be design so it is fair for those soloers or the game will ******** die.
Its that simple. WoT was fair to everybody. WoT had like 100k people online at the same time. You would see it
because they let you see it ingame with a population counter.

They have one more phase to fix this or they will face the consequences.

Edit; removing solo joining and forcing people into a pre-match screen where you can chat a little before it starts would also be "fixing the problem".

Edited by Ilwrath, 21 December 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[Zylo]

KingKalvin, on 21 December 2012 - 02:45 AM, said:

Question is...whats stopping the PUGS from forming their own premades?

So easy to download teamspeak and look for team servers here in the forums.

You wanna play exclusively with your friends with voice function? Why not just download skype and run it while playing MWO.

Join a clan or a house and play with them 24/7

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thing is if you have 10 below matches under your name then its safe to assume that you are just trying out the game

You have 10 or more but you feel that having a premade can be a bit too serious for your taste? Then just accept the fact that in 10 games, you'll probably win 2-3 games.

But if you have 50+ more and you feel like you're getting stomped on by other premades then its your job to look or form your own. Hate to break it to you but casual players who go solo will always be rocked hard by premades composed of serious individuals who take this game seriously.

Then again people should try to understand that a game like MWO will be extremely competitive with groups of people trying to win 10/10 drops every gaming session. Only advantage premades have using voice chat is being to talk to teammates for a smoother gaming experience. Its not that hard to use voice chat really, its a matter of decision if you wanna look, form, or stay a loner.

While I would certainly like to see more players joining merc corps rather than being lone-wolf players there are some players that just don't want to do it. I'm not saying solo players should have their own matches free of pre-made groups.

I am saying that small-group pre-made + lone-wolf teams should be balanced a bit better rather than allowing for 1-sided sync-drop matches with a pre-made of 8 on 1 side (2x groups of 4) vs 8 lone wolf players on the other. Limiting each team to a single pre-made group would provide this balance which will keep these players in the game which helps keep the game going for everyone else as well.

If all these lone-wolf and small group players leave the game due to being constantly stomped by sync-drop teams, how long do you think this game will last? The same could be said for merc group players if it becomes impossible to find matches in 8vs8 due to the sync-droppers all trying to score easy wins. The game needs to be balanced to keep all types of players playing the game, and many of them paying as well.

[Rushin Roulette]

Zylo, on 21 December 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

So, do you think it should just go back to the old way with 8 player groups fighting anything that the matchmaker decided to place on the other team?

That's what a sync-drop is in many cases. By doing sync-drops you really aren't helping and I suspect those teams you end up against when you sync-drop aren't exactly having much fun. What is going to happen when many of those less dedicated players quit the game?

I'll still be here no matter what happens with the matchmaker but I won't be happy if I'm waiting forever to find a match just because some players continue to exploit the current matchmaker issues to get an 8-player pre-made into a game where there is a low chance they will face another pre-made of equal size.

You really did not read his post at all did you? Go back and read the first and second paragraphs again. The drop/success rate is very low.

First, youve got to be able to drop in the same match (Sometimes very dificult as this is probably the same as trying coordinated 8v8 matches against a second full 8 player team).

Secondly, once you do manage to land in the same match, it is not guaranteed that you will also automatically land on the same team. Mostly this isnt even wished for (eg. the comment on getting 9 players in the same game which would be impossible on one team) as many want to play against each other , but cant field a full 8 player team because they only have 5-7 players.

Until you can 100% tell if your opponents are all in premades, then whining that PGI should nerf players who are better than you is pointless. These threads have been around since before the Matchmaker phase 1 was implemented. A developer even posted his findings on how many premades he faced while pugging back then... the result was, out of about 20 games he was aginst full 8 man premades in only aproximately 25% of those matches, but still lost around 50% of the overall matches. Not every match against 8 player premades was a loss either.