46 replies to this topic

[EyeOne]

Pr8Dator, on 21 December 2012 - 07:37 AM, said:

That will turn MWO into P2W and thats what PGI has been avoiding so far... (although I dun see whats the problem with P2W, LOL! I would P2W! )

No it wouldn't. It'd be "pay fake money to cusomize" but there is no way to guarantee the mech you paid to mod wouldn't suck butt anyway.

The clans create a big problem for the economy. Clan tech is pretty much P2W anyway, it's better and more expensive. How do you add and balance a game element that was designed to de-balance the lore? I'm just curious about how they are going to handle it.

[Grimorkin]

I voted "Yes but seperate clan and IS games."

That said I agree with FiveDIgits. If you're going to have IS and clan tech in the same battle at least tip your hat to canon and keep them on seperate sides.

And yes, I know there's the old argument of "But so-and-so piloted a this-and-that". Those are part of the story/history. Most people did not have the opportunity to run cross-tech and we (the players) should be representing those "most people".

At least, in my opinion.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

They are going to be added. The only question is how.

Grimorkin, on 21 December 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

If you're going to have IS and clan tech in the same battle at least tip your hat to canon and keep them on separate sides.

That creates pretty much the worst possible scenario for game balance.

Edited by crabcakes66, 21 December 2012 - 07:56 AM.

[Viper69]

The way you balance clan tech is by battlevalue level drops. That is the only way, and that is how FASA had to do it. You cant do it by tonnage ELO or anything alone as long as mech BV is in there, ELO could work but not ELO alone. I think it will be something like 4 clan mechs Vs 8 IS mechs, just to have a crude image of what I see it looking like. Now if they go about a different way of balancing their weapons by say longer cycle times, then who knows.

[MustrumRidcully]

What I would like to see is having Omnipods be parts you can take from one omnimech to another onnimech, but this pod may still have hard points restrictions, or be even more limited, in the specific weapons it has. And I think some Omnimechs still have non-Omnipodded equipment, like the Mad Cats Missile Launchers. So it could be a mix.

I would prefer if CLan Tech wasn't inherently superior to IS tech. But that's probably a pipe dream.

I do not believe that PGI or the players are really prepared for Clan tech if it isn't notched down a bit. Even if you put slower numbers of Clan Mechs against IS Mechs, CLan Mechs simply can pack a lot more firepower than IS mechs, but neither IS nor Clan mechs have more armour than Clan Mechs. Number-balancing or battle value balancing will not fundamentally change this.

That means that overall, combat with clan tech will be much faster paced. THe devs are already now worried about Cicadas being able to deliver too much damage if htey gave them "True" Double Heat SInks, but imagine you could equip your Cicada with Clan ER Medium Lasers -more damange, mroe range, and yes, more heat - but also more compact double heat sinks.

I really like the "zoo" of weapons that was introduced with higher tech levels. There is just more variety there. but I'd prefer it was all balanced against each other.

[Clubs]

I don't want clans or clan tech in this game until the existing tech is well balanced (which I think is pretty close now) and they have fixed net code, added more maps and game modes and given us time with community Warfare.

If clans were introduced tomorrow I would think we don't need this right now.

The Clan Invasion shoulld be a really cool thing to bring in once we've settled into Community Warfare and the game is out of Beta and frankly, it should be a surprise when it shows up while people are plotting in CW.

I think they should have made 2012 be 3048 in the game and 2013 be 3049.

But clearly they've been optimistic on their time table.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

[Voted no] I only want to see the Clanners as opposition in PvE/Co Op, but sadly, we all know that won't be the case. Piranha has admitted already that they intend to eventually unlock Clan stuff for players. I just hope they don't let IS use it, because that would be too problematic for balance. If they really want to let players use Clan stuff, then make a Clan a faction and limit the stuff to that faction. Then you can make PvP matches strictly IS vs Clan, and adjust balance with numbers.(aka 3 lances of 12 IS vs 2 stars of 10 Clan) I'd actually enjoy smashing Clanner teams in my old obsolete IS scrap Mechs if they did this. Take it, Madcat fanboys.

But if they do stupidly let everyone use Clan Tech for every House, then all my IS stuff will quickly become obsolete unless they totally destroy the logic behind Clan Tech being better. I don't want Clan Tech. I like my Catapult(used to anyway), my Raven, my Hunchback, my Atlas, etc. I don't need a Madcat, Vulture, or Couger, to enjoy this game. I don't want that funny looking Daishi either. I like my death skull. But if they ruin the balance, I'll cease being competitive in this stuff and be forced to upgrade to Clan Tech like everyone else. Do what I suggested, make a Clan faction, limit the stuff to it, then make matches IS vs Clan. I'm sure that faction will be the biggest, but plenty of us will stay behind and bigger just means I get to fight Clan Mechs from the invasion all day long.(No problem with that) It'll be the biggest faction, naturally, but that'll just mean all the rest of the Houses just fight Clan a lot instead of each other. It is an invasion, after all.

Edited by Bluten, 21 December 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Ozric]

You are right about being out of time, and I'm really starting to think that we'll have Clans more or less when the game goes live. CW without the clans would only be half the system anyway, and I did wonder why/how long the IS would knock itself about for until the clans turn up and everybody picks sides. Seems to me that it's all going to happen at once, with CW in the open beta only serving as a test for the real CW system that is to come with the invasion.

And six houses means six clans, right?

Edited by Ozric, 21 December 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Tetatae Squawkins]

Bluten, on 21 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

and adjust balance with numbers.(aka 3 lances of 12 IS vs 2 stars of 10 Clan)

That is not even close to balanced if clan tech isn't artificially nerfed.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

They don't have to put Clan in anytime soon fyi. This invasion lasts until sometime 3052. 2012=3049. They still got 3 years before this timeline runs out. They might get around to it fall 2013, and it wouldn't be too late then because you've still got all of 2014(3051) and 2015(3052) before the invasion technically ends.

crabcakes66, on 21 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

That is not even close to balanced if clan tech isn't artificially nerfed.

You got a better idea? And ya it would help. I don't think you realize the effect of +2 to a team in a PvP match where people only have 1 life.

[Pando]

FiveDigits, on 21 December 2012 - 07:22 AM, said:

I too want to see the iconic clan mechs. I also don't want them to be neutered to IS level for the sake of balance.
We should avoid mix tech (clan + IS on the same mech) at all costs.
My solution for the introduction of the clans and their technology would be to separate the two completely. A player should decide if he wants to play clan or IS on a:

• one time
  
• per login
  
• per drop

basis. I'm not sure what the best scale would be. But by separating the two tech pools completely matches could then be balanced by quantity and the canon quality differences could remain intact.


PS: I didn't vote in your poll because no option applies to my POV.

^ this.

Clubs, on 21 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

I don't want clans or clan tech in this game until the existing tech is well balanced (which I think is pretty close now) and they have fixed net code, added more maps and game modes and given us time with community Warfare.

If clans were introduced tomorrow I would think we don't need this right now.

The Clan Invasion shoulld be a really cool thing to bring in once we've settled into Community Warfare and the game is out of Beta and frankly, it should be a surprise when it shows up while people are plotting in CW.

I think they should have made 2012 be 3048 in the game and 2013 be 3049.

But clearly they've been optimistic on their time table.

Kind of agree. But we'll just have to see how it all goes down.

[Nik Kerensky]

This is why having more unique traits for each mech chassis is so so important!!!

http://mwomercs.com/...ss/page__st__40

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

When I see the trend already going towards nerfing Clans to make if "fair" Id rather they not put them in the game

http://mwomercs.com/...ch-in-the-game/

Just started already 2 to 1 against putting clan tech in unmodified as it was never meant to be on par with IS tech

[Orgasmo]

I don't mind seeing Clan Tech introduced in this game, as long as they must pay high purchase and repair cost for using them. They should cost twice as much as Inner Sphere counterpart and double the repair/rearm bill before that got removed. We'll then see people being more careful and technical with them, as Clans should be.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bluten, on 21 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

But if they do stupidly let everyone use Clan Tech for every House, then all my IS stuff will quickly become obsolete

If they dont "everyone will use Clan" OR your IS stuff will be made obsolete anyways by the better IS tech that comes along too

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Orgasmo, on 21 December 2012 - 08:41 AM, said:

I don't mind seeing Clan Tech introduced in this game, as long as they must pay high purchase and repair cost for using them. They should cost twice as much as Inner Sphere counterpart and double the repair/rearm bill before that got removed. We'll then see people being more careful and technical with them, as Clans should be.

A higher store price won't do ANYTHING for balance. It'll just make them rich toys that eventually everyone will still have. Eventually, IS stuff would still be obsolete and phased out as people stopped buying it or become able to afford Clan Tech.

Also, Clanners aren't "careful", lol. They blindly charge straight into battle betting they can win with superior technology or 1vs1 combat skill. They were great at honorable duels and "trial" fights, but in reality, they had no idea how to actually fight a war. This is why they lost the invasion. The Inner Sphere Houses have been at war with each other since the dawn of time, not just fighting 1vs1 matches or small evenly preset skirmishes, thus they knew what they were doing when Clan showed up. They ran the Clanners out of Inner Sphere space rather easily in just a few years then went right back to fighting each other as if nothing had happened.(Right after the Clan Invasion, you have the Steiner Davion Civil War where the alliance between the 2 houses is shattered and the factions practically butcher each other.) The most ironic part is that most players that like what the game has become this patch would make great Clanners... because they like their OP ECM and 300m pewpew.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Wonder if Clan ECM will actually make mechs invisible?

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 December 2012 - 09:01 AM, said:

Wonder if Clan ECM will actually make mechs invisible?

Lol, ya. With our ECM so stupidly OP already, you got to wonder what the Clan ECM will do. Piranha will turn it into a cloaking device!

[Mike McSullivan]

I´m for the option that the IS Mechs fight against Clans (sure, i want a real invasion^^), no mix-tech, no Clanmechs in the hands of IS Pilots.

The balancing is made by:
-Matchmaking (like Bluten said) Lances vs Stars, like 8vs5, 12 vs 10
-DBL-Heatsinks @1.4 value!!!
-and Omnimech restrictions:
The rules say: "Once an Omnimech has been designed, allocation of permanent fixtures, such as XL,Engines, EndoSteel, Ferro Fibrous cannot be altered, Heat seaks and Jumpjets can be added afterwards but not removed. All of there are integral to the machine, and the critical spaces they consume cannot be rearraged thereafter."
(about Weaponhardpoints: "Weapons can always be installed/replaced, providing there is sufficient room.")

[Bishop Steiner]

Pr8Dator, on 21 December 2012 - 07:16 AM, said:

Personally, I think Clan mechs are cool, they are all my favorites but in view of how fun and strategic the current hardpoint system is, I have to go against my personal like for clan mechs and say no to clan tech. How about you?

Sure.

With a great big BUT added to that tho......

I want to fight them. I want the Dev's to set up and Control the Invading Clans, and for the first year or so, have the Clan Mechs ONLY available to members of those "Clans". Then have them slowly trickle into GenPop, costing obscene amounts of MC ONLY for another year or so, then start being available for C-Bills after, but again for at least 4-5 times the cost of current "Level 2" tech mechs of the same weight class.

And all this is ONLY if they re-institute Repair and Re-Arm, with obscenely high costs for Clan Tech repairs, the need to replace any "destroyed" weapons with Inner Sphere stuff (initially).

Why? Because the glut of Lvl 2 tech has already rendered most variants of mechs and pretty much all "Stock" mechs as obsolete. If Clan Tech becomes readily and cheaply available, then it will instantly obsolete all Inner Sphere designs, PERIOD.

What good is taking the time to make and introduce all these Mechs if it will just instantly turn the game into ClanWarrior Online? And that doesn't even address the Meta, the canon reasons. (Clan Mechs were essentially unused by the Inner Sphere until after 3052, and then were few and far between. Most of those were mothballed or re-assigned to Research and Development when it became obvious that essentially no Mercs, and few House Units, could afford or even perform the maintenance and upkeep/repairs on these high tech designs. AFTER 3060, and the conclusion of Operation Bulldog/Serpent yielded up the treasures of Clan Smoke Jaguar, only then did they start to become "readily" available. And even then few Mercs drove them (unless won in battle) due to cost.)

So I had to vote NO, sadly, because virtually every move (I am assuming the Publishers have forced) since Open Beta has been to dumb this down, more and more to make it entirely for the casual FPS player, where soon the whole "Meta" will serve no purpose. Free Repair Clan Mechs would just totally finish the game for me. Especially with 3rd Person, and you and I both know it's coming, ReSpawns.