70 replies to this topic

[Silence Jin Mang]

I`m sorry but 8 heavy/assualts with lrms and guass rifles, kinda scare people off. I`m sorry but i`m a brawler, i like my ac20 and medium lasers, but why do an 8 man when i`ll get hammered by missles and gauss rounds well before i can reach you? Alot of the people who can pull 8 mans, dont because it encompasses camping and sniping. Not too many like that, as its not like in a twitch game, a single sniper round is a kill, its a bunch of sniper rounds is one. Means it takes more time, and not all of us have time for 15minute matches when it takes 15mins to set up. So sorry but I wont do 8man till there is a weight limit.

[Purlana]

Here is an idea, instead of having 4 man groups finding 4 more people. You can have solo players find 3 more people.

Edited by Purlana, 21 December 2012 - 12:05 PM.

[lordlazarus]

well i second remorses claim to be apopular 8 man commander i couldent join an otlws team tonight because of the que of people keen to play in his squad . , its not a complaint as a unit we rotate the team members so no one has to wait too long . some people step down to let others in . personally i didnt mind not getting in coz i was comfortably numb anyway an not much use in a semi serious game .

[Asakara]

I enjoy 8 mans. I try to do them most nights for a couple hours starting at 7 PM or so PST. Generally we have no issues finding opponents until around 10-11 PM PST.

I would like to see a weight limit imposed if possible. Personally I would say 500-600 tons distributed among the 8 members would work out well, with 550 allowing 2 lights, 2 mediums, 2 heavies, and 2 assaults without much issue.

[One Medic Army]

Asakara, on 21 December 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

I enjoy 8 mans. I try to do them most nights for a couple hours starting at 7 PM or so PST. Generally we have no issues finding opponents until around 10-11 PM PST.

I would like to see a weight limit imposed if possible. Personally I would say 500-600 tons distributed among the 8 members would work out well, with 550 allowing 2 lights, 2 mediums, 2 heavies, and 2 assaults without much issue.

The problem with a 550 or so is you'd just see 4 D-DC atlas and 4 ECM ravens...
What I'd like to see is one of two things:
Limit of 2lights/2mediums/2heavies/2assaults and/or limit of 1 of any specific variant per side (Only 1 Raven-3L, only 1 Cataphract 4X, only one Stalker 5S, etc...)

Of course enforcing variety in this manner is just a poor substitute to encouraging variety through balance.

Edited by One Medic Army, 21 December 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Purlana]

I don't really like the 2/2/2/2 rule people are suggesting.

Sometimes your pilots have certain specializations, limiting the group like that makes it tougher to get things going.

[Ursh]

Because I don't care about 8 mans right now, and because I have enough fun either solo pugging or running four mans when I feel like it. The key thing to understand here is that my current playstyle makes me happy. I have enough intensity and mental fatigue from my day job, I play mechwarrior to relax, which isn't something 8 mans really allow me to do..

Be happy with your own success. Don't insult other people for not wanting to play something they don't want to play.

[Asakara]

I am also not keen on forcing teams to conform to specific chassis, ergo why I proposed a tonnage limit. 500 I would say is the minimum.. And that would get you 4 commandos and 4 atlases at the extreme end. If you go for less, like 400 and 1 person has to take an atlas, have fun getting the other 7 people into anything but lights with the 300 tons left to spread among them. Get that tonnage limit up too high and it becomes pointless.

I am sure PGI will think of something. As it is though it is still fun to fight in 8 mans.

[Kraven Kor]

Silence Jin Mang, on 21 December 2012 - 11:57 AM, said:

I`m sorry but 8 heavy/assualts with lrms and guass rifles, kinda scare people off. I`m sorry but i`m a brawler, i like my ac20 and medium lasers, but why do an 8 man when i`ll get hammered by missles and gauss rounds well before i can reach you? Alot of the people who can pull 8 mans, dont because it encompasses camping and sniping. Not too many like that, as its not like in a twitch game, a single sniper round is a kill, its a bunch of sniper rounds is one. Means it takes more time, and not all of us have time for 15minute matches when it takes 15mins to set up. So sorry but I wont do 8man till there is a weight limit.

Our groups generally don't have any abundance of LRM's or Gauss; from where I sit, AC/20 Cats and SRM Cats and 4x Large Laser Cat/Phract along with SRM'd Atlas D-DC are preferable in the 8v8 queue (for assault anyways.)

Every team is different, and plenty do us the "cookie cutter" configurations, but not all or even most.

A good brawler team can easily get up under the LRM / Gauss killzone; it isn't easy but it is indeed doable.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

You can only play so many 8-man matches before the repitition gets old. We seem to meet the strategy and composition every match, I mean I love bacon, but I don't want to eat it every meal every day.

Currently there is way more variety and playability be had in the PUG drops, especially for the medium mech pilot. Maybe when PGI implements Community, Role, and Information Warfare that will change.

[Soy]

8 mans for noobs.

[Kraven Kor]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 21 December 2012 - 12:53 PM, said:

You can only play so many 8-man matches before the repitition gets old. We seem to meet the strategy and composition every match, I mean I love bacon, but I don't want to eat it every meal every day.

Currently there is way more variety and playability be had in the PUG drops, especially for the medium mech pilot. Maybe when PGI implements Community, Role, and Information Warfare that will change.

I would seriously recommend you try letting your pilots use what they are good at, and be willing to take some losses to figure out a way to win at 8v8 without resorting to "the tactic."

Silverhawks do OK without having to do too much forcing folks into specific chassis; so long as we have the 3 requisite ECM mechs we fare "OK" for the most part.

[Cferre]

Weeble, on 21 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

There are a lot of 4 man groups on the community servers but these are mostly pug's using TS. I don't blame them for not trying to get 8 strangers to agree on mechs, tactics, etc. They would probably get their butts handed to them if they ended up against a real premade group and that's not fun. I'm sure OP didn't mean it that way but it sounded a lot like "C'mon and play 8 mans so we have someone to kick around". LOL

Wut? Just call it a premade.

Edited by Cferre, 21 December 2012 - 01:12 PM.

[Alfred VonGunn]

Why? Because many of us can't stand teh new 8 man rules.. There is NO Mech class Matching like in the PUG/4 mans.. So no matter what you take you almost always end up facing 4-6 Assaults(most DDC) and the rest are Commandos and Ravens with ECM...

Beleive it or not a lot of people like playing other mechs besides these 3.

Once they get the Phase 3 in and add match making that gets away from ECM/DDc Fest you should start seeing fewer 4 mans.. Except when there are not 8 from a single team on.. That being the other problem

[Kraven Kor]

Alfred VonGunn, on 21 December 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Why? Because many of us can't stand teh new 8 man rules.. There is NO Mech class Matching like in the PUG/4 mans.. So no matter what you take you almost always end up facing 4-6 Assaults(most DDC) and the rest are Commandos and Ravens with ECM...

Beleive it or not a lot of people like playing other mechs besides these 3.

Once they get the Phase 3 in and add match making that gets away from ECM/DDc Fest you should start seeing fewer 4 mans.. Except when there are not 8 from a single team on.. That being the other problem

Our groups generally do OK so long as we have at least the one D-DC, and at least two scouts with ECM. The rest can be Dragon, Catapult, Stalker, Hunchback, Centurion, Cataphract... if the pilot is capable of doing decent damage in a given chassis, then so long as you have that minimum ECM coverage, you can in fact use "whatever you want" to an extent.

Just have to make sure your team has a cohesive, complimentary set of loadouts.

[Alfred VonGunn]

Kraven Kor, on 21 December 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Our groups generally do OK so long as we have at least the one D-DC, and at least two scouts with ECM. The rest can be Dragon, Catapult, Stalker, Hunchback, Centurion, Cataphract... if the pilot is capable of doing decent damage in a given chassis, then so long as you have that minimum ECM coverage, you can in fact use "whatever you want" to an extent.

Just have to make sure your team has a cohesive, complimentary set of loadouts.

I know but it gets SOOOOO boring seeing only ECM mechs on the other team when your trying to have fun.... Plus right now with the Stalker added 4 mans mean LOTS of Stalkers to shoot large holes in:)

[MuonNeutrino]

Weeble, on 21 December 2012 - 11:54 AM, said:

There are a lot of 4 man groups on the community servers but these are mostly pug's using TS. I don't blame them for not trying to get 8 strangers to agree on mechs, tactics, etc. They would probably get their butts handed to them if they ended up against a real premade group and that's not fun. I'm sure OP didn't mean it that way but it sounded a lot like "C'mon and play 8 mans so we have someone to kick around". LOL

This. The large majority of the 4 mans on (for example) the NA comstar server aren't true 'premades' made up of people drawn from a standing team - they're 4 randoms who simply came together in the same TS channel. Taking a group like that into 8 mans is just asking for trouble - it's not the fault of any of the individual players involved, but 8 people that have never played together before don't have a prayer of meaningfully competing against a true competitive standing team who have coordinated mech loadouts, coordinated pre-planned strategies, and complete familiarity with each other and their commander. We're not interested in playing the pinata for the real hardcore teams.

[Name115734]

Sorry but what is good for the goose is good for the gander

VOIP player to pug: "Get on TS to get into some teams and learn how to coordinate and do teamwork and stop complaining"

8 man player to 4 man player: "If you are on VOIP then use teamwork and coordinate so you can learn how to win at an 8 and stop complaining"

Do you see the logic of using one argument against one side and then refuting that argument????

8 ECM mech teams are a rarity. Yes I have encountered them and tonight we lost twice to 2 teams of just ECM ravens in 8 man. Do I care, hell yes! I will figure out how to beat them, just like I figured out how to beat 6 Atlases and 2 ravens. Will I give up and throw my hands in the air and only run 8 ravens in conquest because that is the "only" way to win? HELL NO!

Its fine if you want to play a 4 man game to relax and enjoy, I honestly have no problem with that. My problem is with all the players who play this game seriously and refuse to play in 8 man because of this excuse or another. If you all played, then ECM teams would be even more a rarity, and you would provide an example that well rounded teams CAN win.

BTW I do play in public TS exclusively, I am part of a organized unit, but almost all the time I play with people who are not part of that unit, even people who I do not know and have not played with before.

Edited by No Remorse, 21 December 2012 - 02:51 PM.

[lordlazarus]

Soy, on 21 December 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

8 mans for noobs.

troll much?

[FrostPaw]

There is far less pressure on mech choice in a 4 man team and I personally enjoy that. I could bring the very best mech I have but that's the best because I already upgraded and mastered it....now I want to upgrade and master something else. Which isn't the best mech I have and isn't at the cutting edge of competitive build design.

"Bring what you're best in" isn't the same as "Bring whatever you want" and that's important when 7 other people are judging if you're affecting their ability to compete.

I'd be happy pugging sometimes but since I know that means I'm solo vs what could be two teams of 4 I'd rather be in a team of 4 myself so I know I have support rather than just hope for it by random chance.

If I'm in an 8 man team by association with people who want to do that, I'll do my best to help support them, but I always feel pressured into my mech choice/build when I do, because I don't want to be the reason the team loses or has a handicap.

The original 8 player teams at the start of open beta didn't have that sort of pressure because the competitive need for it didn't exist, the matchmaker always tried to match against equal classes so what you took wasn't important, you just took what you enjoyed regardless and knew the enemy would have roughly equivalent mechs. Unfortunately the down side was that it sucked to be pugging during that phase so it needed changing.