195 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Dmitri Valenov, on 22 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

P.S. Also, something to keep in mind. Be glad PGI didn't go the cyber warfare route and give mechs modules that could hack other mechs and shut them down or force weapon malfunctions. The setting is in the year 3050 and that is a perfectly viable option. Just sayin.

this is not mechassault 2 "just sayin"

[Major Cockburn]

Daekar, on 22 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

You can't call targets

LOL...

saying "the left most atlas," the red catapult," "kill the dragon (no need to be specific since who runs them...)" etc still work just fine.

Also, no ecm did not create high alpha builds, they have been popular long before ECM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

BoomDog, on 22 December 2012 - 09:32 AM, said:

I tried to give ECM a chance, but I can't see how this device is not broken. Especially in PUG matches where you have no control of your team layout.

I always do a spot check at the beginning of a match. If I see 4 or 5 lights on my team without ECM, I get a feeling of dread. There's an extremely high chance we're about to fight a 4 man light ECM team.

It's sad when you'd rather face an Atlas than a Raven.

100% agreed.

ECM as we have it now makes pugging a luck-of-the-draw thing. If you end up on a team without ECM you just have to hope the other side hasn't brought LRM boats or SSRM Ravens. If they do, well I've had a number of games recently where my team just got splattered without being able to do much in return. No fun and not good for a game trying to grow a player community.

LRMs and streak cats were a bit too good and needed taming to make the game fun to play, but putting ECM on mechs with lag shields was not the solution.

[Noth]

Dmitri Valenov, on 22 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

Am I the only one that expected PGI to bring out a more realistic form of ECM? I mean seriously folks, at least one year before this game even went closed beta the devs talked about electronic warfare playing a major role in the game. As such, when I heard ECM was coming out in November I pretty much assumed it would be pretty damn potent. Here's the thing though....wait for it.... ECM is supposed to be potent why do you think most modern militaries invest soooo much money in to it.

I will agree that some things need to be tweaked. Allowing streaks to dumb fire while under ECM would be a huge improvement and would likely stop a bunch of complaints. Also making the Beagle Probe the counter to ECM would have probably been a good idea too. This way you have two pieces of equipment. One jams, while the other counters and if you want both then you have to clean out 3 tons of space.

Ok, now that spoken my piece.

Enough with the ECM threads already. The Devs obviously get that point that you want to see a change so please stop cluttering up my front page with "OMG ECM is OP!!!" threads.

Dmitri

P.S. Also, something to keep in mind. Be glad PGI didn't go the cyber warfare route and give mechs modules that could hack other mechs and shut them down or force weapon malfunctions. The setting is in the year 3050 and that is a perfectly viable option. Just sayin.

The thing is, this is nothing like the BT ECM. While not sticking to TT strictly, they didn't even try the TT version. In fact they tried an even more powerful version. The ECM would still be very potent if it acted like TT (no denying locks, no limited detection range, block all added electronics, lowers accuracy of LRMs that target mech under the ECM blanket and cuts off out Map sharing). It would still be very potent at that point, just not a must for avoiding LRM fire.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

RocketDog, on 22 December 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

LRMs and streak cats were a bit too good and needed taming to make the game fun to play, but putting ECM on mechs with lag shields was not the solution.

The lag shield is a myth.

[Andarist]

Meh. I like ECM because it adds a level of strategy that wasn't there previously. Bear in mind I've never fielded an ECM capable mech, and likely I never will. But if the enemy is fielding them it makes for an interesting game of hide and seek, and if my team is fielding them even better... But I find the game no more or less difficult than before. Maybe that's because I've always preferred direct fire weapons, even on my cats (3 lpl cat c1 ftw!!) but I am having even more fun if anything rather than less, especially now with no r&r. I just snuggle up close to the biggest bad I can find and pound it with my stalker's 5 srm 6s and 4 mold while simultaneously tagging him, and he usually blows up. Then I find another one and do the same.
The big challenge I'm finding is not when there is ECM on the field, it's when there isn't, and then the enemy Lrm stalkers open fire and it feels like being hit by a streak cat but at 500 meters or more, because of how a stalker fires lrms. It's vicious, I tell you.
But meh... With a couple of good teammates those stalkers go down, too. Sure I get blown up. Sometimes (though rarely) it's because of a sneaky little ECM light (who I normally hammer with srms until he hightails it or gets mincemeated) but sometimes one gets me. Usually when I go down, however, it's because of smart play by the enemy team, and no excuse in the world is going to change that fact.
I like ECM. Though the BAP ping thing sounds like a nice strategic option that I would probably use.

[Kousagi]

Noth, on 22 December 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

The thing is, this is nothing like the BT ECM. While not sticking to TT strictly, they didn't even try the TT version. In fact they tried an even more powerful version. The ECM would still be very potent if it acted like TT (no denying locks, no limited detection range, block all added electronics, lowers accuracy of LRMs that target mech under the ECM blanket and cuts off out Map sharing). It would still be very potent at that point, just not a must for avoiding LRM fire.

PGI deviated from TT from the start of the game. All mechs have C3i for free of cost. The tech does not even come out for it till 3067. Target sharing should not even be able to be done without the C3 system that was currently in use at this time. So sure, Make ECM just like the TT version, but then make sure that all mechs don't have free of cost C3i systems, and make them pay for the C3 cost in weight/crits and make it come with all the limitations of C3.

Using TT as your base argument does not work well. Just saying.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Major Cockburn, on 22 December 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

LOL...

saying "the left most atlas," the red catapult," "kill the dragon (no need to be specific since who runs them...)" etc still work just fine.

Also, no ecm did not create high alpha builds, they have been popular long before ECM.

yeah this from the ecm fanboi who thinks the effect of ECM are "pilot error" on the part of the guy trying to shoot at them

[Noth]

Kousagi, on 22 December 2012 - 09:58 AM, said:

PGI deviated from TT from the start of the game. All mechs have C3i for free of cost. The tech does not even come out for it till 3067. Target sharing should not even be able to be done without the C3 system that was currently in use at this time. So sure, Make ECM just like the TT version, but then make sure that all mechs don't have free of cost C3i systems, and make them pay for the C3 cost in weight/crits and make it come with all the limitations of C3.

Using TT as your base argument does not work well. Just saying.

ECM counters C3, so I'm not sure what you are complaining about there ( i even stated it would block map sharing we have now). If ECM is also going to be a null signature system it needs to have the drawbacks of the nullsignature system. It does way too much for 2 crit slots and 1.5 tons.

They typically start with TT and move on from there. that is what they've done with pretty much every single other equipable. This they just threw TT to the wind. I'm not for sticking to TT completely, but when they just throw it out and put out something that is two things in one I see an issue.

Edited by Noth, 22 December 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[Major Cockburn]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 December 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

yeah this from the ecm fanboi who thinks the effect of ECM are "pilot error" on the part of the guy trying to shoot at them

thanks for the "i have no valid argument so I'm going to resort to hes an ecm fanboi disregard his post" comment...

Edited by Major Cockburn, 22 December 2012 - 10:03 AM.

[paladin yst]

Quote

It's sad when you'd rather face an Atlas than a Raven.

That little sentence explains everything lol, broken, so damn broken. Would happily fight and own or die to an atlas. Against a raven its more like rear cored lol.

Quote

This has to change I have lost me easy missile dominance and now have to actually use some strategy. Change it now or I quit.

I suppose this comes from a moron with no skill? Btw I`m an ecm user, for me to see heavy & assaults running away from my little raven is just, illogical. I enjoys both winning and losing,

Artemis era was great when I actually have to use some skill to dodge and infiltrate, now I frikking zerg into they whole 8 man formation and they scatter, lost their radar and they thought all their mates died, when I shoot at them they just ran, a few fight back obviously and I vanish into the shadows, obviously since none can see me. Obviously enemy ecm can counter me but these days who would dare risk turning their ecm to counter mode lol. ZOMG wheres my cloak my easy ecm godlike mode, woot turned off counter.

Ecm is fun and all but this ecm era is the most boring stage I ever got in the entire beta. Lrm is so much fun where its like sniper vs sniper, whoever got into position first and fire theirs win(when they r still imba at that time but massive fun). However ecm is like a no skill game.

Starting in 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1

A: Hi any1 with ecm?
B: Me I got it.
A: EVERYONE FOLLOW HIM
B: ok....

Pretty boring game, rush in, brawl brawl brawl, no tactics boring match, cover and everything means nothing. Lrm era, cover, avoid open, meet brawl, take more cover, skirmish or zerg lrmer, always something to do other than boring ecm brawl. Gauss era is even more fun, take out heavythreat unit, aka kittykats etc, and all the above moves.

Ecm era - just walk behind building and the entire zone is cloak and radar free. Mech like pults who r actually meant to be long range support is taken out of the game, rendering it obselete. Centurions, atlas, awesome, stalker which all comes with inbuild lrm has to change it just to match this piece of equipment.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Major Cockburn, on 22 December 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

thanks for the "i have no valid argument so I'm going to resort to hes an ecm fanboi disregard his post" comment...

well when you ardently refuse to see ANY problem with it it kinda makes you a fanboi so...

paladin yst, on 22 December 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

That little sentence explains everything lol, broken, so damn broken. Would happily fight and own or die to an atlas. Against a raven its more like rear cored lol.




I suppose this comes from a moron with no skill? Btw I`m an ecm user, for me to see heavy & assaults running away from my little raven is just, illogical. I enjoys both winning and losing,

Artemis era was great when I actually have to use some skill to dodge and infiltrate, now I frikking zerg into they whole 8 man formation and they scatter, lost their radar and they thought all their mates died, when I shoot at them they just ran, a few fight back obviously and I vanish into the shadows, obviously since none can see me. Obviously enemy ecm can counter me but these days who would dare risk turning their ecm to counter mode lol. ZOMG wheres my cloak my easy ecm godlike mode, woot turned off counter.

Ecm is fun and all but this ecm era is the most boring stage I ever got in the entire beta. Lrm is so much fun where its like sniper vs sniper, whoever got into position first and fire theirs win(when they r still imba at that time but massive fun). However ecm is like a no skill game.

Starting in 10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1

A: Hi any1 with ecm?
B: Me I got it.
A: EVERYONE FOLLOW HIM
B: ok....

Pretty boring game, rush in, brawl brawl brawl, no tactics boring match, cover and everything means nothing. Lrm era, cover, avoid open, meet brawl, take more cover, skirmish or zerg lrmer, always something to do other than boring ecm brawl. Gauss era is even more fun, take out heavythreat unit, aka kittykats etc, and all the above moves.

Ecm era - just walk behind building and the entire zone is cloak and radar free. Mech like pults who r actually meant to be long range support is taken out of the game, rendering it obselete. Centurions, atlas, awesome, stalker which all comes with inbuild lrm has to change it just to match this piece of equipment.

this from a guy that runs it

[Kousagi]

Noth, on 22 December 2012 - 10:00 AM, said:

ECM counters C3, so I'm not sure what you are complaining about there. If ECM is also going to be a null signature system it needs to have the drawbacks of the nullsignature system. It does way too much for 2 crit slots and 1.5 tons.

Yes, it does, but the thing is we are getting C3i for FREE. That means, no cost in weight/crit's. So a 1.5ton/2crit slot system is needed to counter a FREE system. C3i does way too much for its cost... Not to meantion the tech for it does not come out till 3067. I could see if were using just the C3 system with master/slave units, but we are not, and its all for free of charge, which in TT C3/C3i cost tonnage and crit slots, so why are we getting it for free?

[Major Cockburn]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 22 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

well when you ardently refuse to see ANY problem with it it kinda makes you a fanboi so...



this from a guy that runs it

I don't see a problem because there isn't one, l2p and it will be ok

[paladin yst]

Quote

P.S. Also, something to keep in mind. Be glad PGI didn't go the cyber warfare route and give mechs modules that could hack other mechs and shut them down or force weapon malfunctions. The setting is in the year 3050 and that is a perfectly viable option. Just sayin.

Tbh its far better than ecm. Every1 can have modules, right now its frikking boring ecm lag shielded lights. I`d rather hack and shut down an ecm light and watch it squirm or rather die getting hacked than frikking shotting it and see it getting 0 dmg. Dont get me wrong I like my raven but its seriously I dont even know whether its my skill or the lag shield, which kinda annoys me.

Edited by paladin yst, 22 December 2012 - 10:08 AM.

[pcunite]

siLve00, on 22 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

It's not the ECM ... it's the lagshield ... every1 knows it ... if you could tear lights appart like medium mechs it wouldnt bother you at all.

True, the scariest thing out there is a ECM'd Raven with streaks ... unstoppable. I like ECM otherwise.

[Noth]

Kousagi, on 22 December 2012 - 10:06 AM, said:

Yes, it does, but the thing is we are getting C3i for FREE. That means, no cost in weight/crit's. So a 1.5ton/2crit slot system is needed to counter a FREE system. C3i does way too much for its cost... Not to meantion the tech for it does not come out till 3067. I could see if were using just the C3 system with master/slave units, but we are not, and its all for free of charge, which in TT C3/C3i cost tonnage and crit slots, so why are we getting it for free?

I game design choice,like they did with everything. It made support LRMs have a purpose and give purpose to spotting in game. They did it so people would get benefit for those types of things and expand from just brawling. The current ECM completely removes such and encourages brawling above all else.

Paladin Yst explained exactly what the problem is. Before ECM I could avoid LRM fire, I could sneak up on people, I could flank. Doing so took actual effort though. Now with this powerful of ECM it trivializes it, no threat of being spotted, and just blindly run to get into position to flank instead of having to stick to specific routes and rely on team mates to spot mechs so I don't run directly into them.

[DisasterTheory]

When my group heads out of our DZ the first thing we do is hunt the ECM carriers and kill them. After that the enemy team is toast and our LRM boats mop the floor with them.


Why all the whining?

[Sarevos]

Daekar, on 22 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

A few things:
You can't call targets
TAG is not a counter. Not even close. Try it, it sucks.
Makes HV mandatory to use all the time
Has resulted in high-alpha pop-out builds (ick)
Scout spotting is essentially dead

The game is now "hide in a clump and play peekaboo until our invincible lagshielded lights do enough damage that we can come out."

for the record we ALL should be able to disable our radar which lowers detection without bap to about 250m as of now its limited to ecm mounting mechs if we could ALL stealth ourselves there would be hell to pay...

[Major Cockburn]

pcunite, on 22 December 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

True, the scariest thing out there is a ECM'd Raven with streaks ... unstoppable. I like ECM otherwise.

idk what game you've been playing, but ecm ravens are far from unstoppable in my experience...