9 replies to this topic

[Cache]

In a discussion about ECM and SSRMs elsewhere, I was reminded that the Clans field 2-, 4-, and 6-pack SSRMs that weigh less and have a longer range than Inner Sphere versions. Seeing the damage groups of three to four SSRM2's can do I am seriously worried about the same with SSRM6's. The Mad Cat D carries four of them as a stock configuration, I can imagine what the custom configs will look like.

I would like to suggest two changes for Streaks that bring them more into line with TT rules. (Yeah... I went there. ) These changes will both nerf and buff streaks so I think them a pretty fair trade if implemented together.

1) Break the lock after firing. In TT you have to make the to-hit rolls every time you fire--you don't get a bonus for having locked on during the previous firing phase. All streaks should be able to fire with a single lock-on. If you chain fire, the lock should break once you cycle around to a previously-fired launcher. Obviously launched missiles should auto-track, even after the lock is broken.

2) Make streaks immune to ECM as they are in TT. (This is an ECM nerf as well, and the only one that I would suggest.) ECM is giving lights an invulnerability (LAG-shield) that I do not believe was ever intended. I know that code is being streamlined in order to minimize this but you can't fix poor/slow connections. With my first suggestion implemented this should not be a game-breaking change.

Edited by Cache, 11 January 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Cache]

I'm going to bump this since I got no feedback whatsoever. I expected to get shouted down for my brilliant ideas at the very least.

[Cache]

Poll added for more attention grabbing.

[Moridan]

Cache, on 23 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

ECM is giving lights an invulnerability (LAG-shield) that I do not believe was ever intended.

I have no problem with MWO getting more inline with TT rules, but I dont really understand this statement. Are you saying that ECM causes lag, thus making it harder for people to hit light ECM mechs? As a light ECM driver myself, I havent ever had any problems with this "lag-shield".

[Cache]

Moridan, on 11 January 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

I have no problem with MWO getting more inline with TT rules, but I dont really understand this statement. Are you saying that ECM causes lag, thus making it harder for people to hit light ECM mechs? As a light ECM driver myself, I havent ever had any problems with this "lag-shield".

Initially I noticed that ECM actually seemed to cause more lag when in disrupt mode. It may have been my connection but I had heard others complaining of it as well. What that statement means, though, is this: SSRMs were the one weapons that would hit consistently despite the lag-shield. ECM neutralizes SSRMs therefore giving lag-shielded Mechs a degree of invulnerability. I believe that lag will always be present despite the developer's best attempts to fix it (due to poor/slow connections). Lag is an unintended advantage thus neutralizing the only sure lag-proof weapon is giving lights an invulnerability that was never intended.

[Moridan]

ECM scrambles your tiny radar, but I still dont see how that in itself would cause game-play lag. But then I am no software engineer. I guess an easy test would be fighting a DDC and see if you run into the same problem.

Sure the net-code isnt fully optimized, this is still in Beta. But shouldnt a small mech traveling at 130mph be hard to hit? Especially when well-piloted.

I just hate reading how people use "lag-shield" as an excuse for being a poor shot. 9-(

[Darling_In_The_MeXX]

I would say that your issues are half a year away. But yet again the SSRM 6 and 4 will be huge problems. I think that it can be fixed by having the IS versions appear a month after the clans do.

I believe that the devs will make it worth playing with Inner Sphere technology after the Clan tech comes. If not they they will have killed half the Battletech universe without mercy.

[Cache]

Moridan, on 11 January 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

ECM scrambles your tiny radar, but I still dont see how that in itself would cause game-play lag. But then I am no software engineer. I guess an easy test would be fighting a DDC and see if you run into the same problem.

The DDC has also caused issues, but they are proportionally lessened due to the slow speed of it. The current HUD overlay is an enormous resource hog. Scrambling it makes it worse.

Moridan, on 11 January 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

But shouldnt a small mech traveling at 130mph be hard to hit? Especially when well-piloted.

Of course it should... except with a laser. Crosshair on target... fire... instant hit. You shouldn't have to sweep back and forth in front of the target to find out where the invisible "true" target really is. Also, I ran my Raven 3L with stock engine for quite a while (97.2 kph). My lag-shield was still very noticeable.

Moridan, on 11 January 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

I just hate reading how people use "lag-shield" as an excuse for being a poor shot. 9-(

I don't consider myself a poor shot. As an example, last night I took out a Raven 3L with my Raven 4X AC/20 build. I fired five times and connected with four. I didn't have a laser pointer to gauge the lag-shield either. All shots were fired under 150 meters with both of us maneuvering heavily (not just circling). In order to hit I fired when he was on the far side of my viewscreen. We're talking two full lengths ahead and my connection is extremely fast. That is just a little ridiculous.

Oblivion5000, on 11 January 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

I would say that your issues are half a year away. But yet again the SSRM 6 and 4 will be huge problems. I think that it can be fixed by having the IS versions appear a month after the clans do.

Break further from canon in order to address an issue that was caused by breaking from canon? Not a great solution. Also, consider the no-minimum range, half-weight LRMs of the Clans. LRMs are one step short of streaks now. Picture a scout boating LRM20s. Are the devs supposed to break from canon and give Clan LRMs to the IS right away too? Or they could change the way missile locks function now and prevent problems in the future.

Edited by Cache, 11 January 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[Reno Blade]

The issue with breaking lock would be how to handle mixed mech loads with LRM and SSRM?
The LRM would need to lose lock also, because they use the same lockon mechanic.

In MW3, the SSRMs had the best turn rate, SRMs came after and LRMs were pretty slow turning. This gave everything with high speed more survivability against LRMs than SRM or streaks and still all missiles could be avoided with the right speed + angle what made it the best implementation imo.
I don't like to see MW4s Point-and-click locking of Streaks, nor the wasp-swarm always-hit flying mechanic of the MW4 LRMs.

I would like to see Streaks flying like LRMs in regards to lock and turn mechanics with higher turn rates, but no 100% hit chance.

[UnseenFury]

Cache, on 23 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

1) Break the lock after firing. In TT you have to make the to-hit rolls every time you fire--you don't get a bonus for having locked on during the previous firing phase. All streaks should be able to fire with a single lock-on. If you chain fire, the lock should break once you cycle around to a previously-fired launcher. Obviously launched missiles should auto-track, even after the lock is broken.

2) Make streaks immune to ECM as they are in TT. (This is an ECM nerf as well, and the only one that I would suggest.) ECM is giving lights an invulnerability (LAG-shield) that I do not believe was ever intended. I know that code is being streamlined in order to minimize this but you can't fix poor/slow connections. With my first suggestion implemented this should not be a game-breaking change.

Love it!

But I suggest that you can lock streaks on ecm mech inside 100 meters only, so ecm mech still have stealth but have to play at range.