114 replies to this topic

[ivr56]

It'll be the same once clan hits.
Clan mech variants (MC or Cbill) and hero clan mechs (MC only).

If it were the case where all clan mechs were MC only it would not go well with the player base

Edited by ivr56, 23 December 2012 - 01:31 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

im guessing and hoping for battlevalue. it would certainly be appropriate to have a limit of 500 IS vs 400 clan tons in example. Makes it more fun & challenging to be clanner too.

[Leetskeet]

Aurien Titus, on 23 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

I've never seen PGI say that Clan's would be playable. The community has just always assumed they'd be playable.

They'll be playable, don't waste your time thinking they won't be.

[Therius]

First think i hope that Clans will be playable, but they should strictly seperate Clans and IS.

Also i think that Clan and IS Mechs should be avaiable for Clans (and for IS under specific circumstances) Or the IS will field only Clanmechs against outnumberd Claner

That are only my thoughts.

And i dont think that Clantech will be too OP, cause a good Pilot cann do devestating Damage with inferior Gear, if he outmaneuvers the Enemy

[Funky Bacon]

Isn't clan weapons generally a lot hotter than IS weapons? so even if they are lighter and stronger, wont they need more Heatsinks to be effective?

[MustrumRidcully]

I predict the Clan tech will bring imbalances that will take very long to be resolved, and will never make anyone really happy.

If the heat system stays as is, we will probably see most Clan "Stock" Configurations to be way too hot to be useable (even if the get DHS 2.0, that would only make them as good as IS Single Heat Sinks stock mechs, and in fact, they will probably still be a bit worse, simply because the TT to MW:O conversion is more punishing the higher the heat levels of mechs are - regardless of whether they are heat neutral,hot or cool in TT, the prime matter is how much heat it can produce absolutely without considering dissipation)

[Vodrin Thales]

Nahuris, on 23 December 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

I just assumed, looking at the way they are throwing hero mechs into the game, that the clan mechs will be MC purchase only....
Free to play,. pay to win.... isn't that the goal?

Nahuris

I seriously doubt this as the hero mechs currently give no real advantage other than the C-bill bonus. It's not like the hero mechs are really any more powerful than the versions purchased with in game currency.

[Kelb]

Are we really crying about Clan Mechs while we are still in Beta?

[IceSerpent]

Therius, on 23 December 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

First think i hope that Clans will be playable, but they should strictly seperate Clans and IS.

Also i think that Clan and IS Mechs should be avaiable for Clans (and for IS under specific circumstances) Or the IS will field only Clanmechs against outnumberd Claner

You lost me here - what do you mean by "strictly separate Clans and IS" while allowing everybody access to both kinds of mechs?

[verybad]

HRR Insanity, on 23 December 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Make Clan Tech as good as it should be (DHS at 2.0 and 2 crit slots, expected Clan weights for weapons, Omni slots, etc).

No, 1.4 with a 2 crit size is fine. Clan hs are already better, no reason to make them extra better.

Quote

All Clan vs. IS drops should require PureTech (Clan Tech on Clan OmniMechs, IS Tech on IS BattleMechs).

Agree mostly. Some mixing can come later. Certain thngs should never mix (Clan Endo, and Clan engines probably)

Quote

[The forums respond... ] "But Insanity, Clan tech is BROKEN! TOO POWERFUL!! You are proposing the game be unbalanced! How will the IS compete?"

Solution: Clan vs. IS drops will be: 2 Lances (4+4) vs. 1 Star (5 'Mechs) and will have a maximum allowed weight of 63% of the IS Lances cumulative tonnage.

Make clan stuff more expensive, and clan drops earn less money. That makes IS dropping a way to earn money. Agree with the smaller clan force sizes though also.

Clans should play differenetly. They should get penalties for assisted kills, but more bonuses for kills. They should have a target pick system that makes it easy for other clan members to see who'se been "picked" (maybe surround that target in yellow rather than red or blue) This is because clans traditionally don't group up on targets.

Make their LRMs have no minimum range, but have a penalty similiar to assited kills when used for Indirect fire. (Considered dishonorable) or at least no bonuses for indirect fire damage.

Again, the Clans need to PLAY differently, not as a better group of toys.

[Balu0]

Nahuris, on 23 December 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

I just assumed, looking at the way they are throwing hero mechs into the game, that the clan mechs will be MC purchase only....
Free to play,. pay to win.... isn't that the goal?

Nahuris

I certainly hope not!

Pay to win is a different thing. Pay to win is, when you can buy more powerful ammo or weapon Or if they make the clan mechs as powerful as they are in the lore and make them mc only.. that is pay to win, but if they make it that way MWO will die quick.

Pay to Win model is for short lifespan games, typically for browser games. Big free to play games have to keep the pay to win aspect at a minimum to be successful for a long period of time (see, LOL) at least in my honourable opinion.

Nahuris, on 23 December 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

I just assumed, looking at the way they are throwing hero mechs into the game, that the clan mechs will be MC purchase only....
Free to play,. pay to win.... isn't that the goal?

Nahuris

I certainly hope not!

Pay to win is a different thing. Pay to win is, when you can buy more powerful ammo or weapon Or if they make the clan mechs as powerful as they are in the lore and make them mc only.. that is pay to win, but if they make it that way MWO will die quick.

Pay to Win model is for short lifespan games, typically for browser games. Big free to play games have to keep the pay to win aspect at a minimum to be successful for a long period of time (see, LOL) at least in my honourable opinion.

[herosson]

"But Insanity, Clan tech is BROKEN! TOO POWERFUL!! You are proposing the game be unbalanced! How will the IS compete?"

Have you played with lights lately duh..... More of the same just down the road.

Edited by herosson, 23 December 2012 - 02:06 PM.

[Nahuris]

I am hoping that they get it right.... but I am not holding my breath.
It took a long time for TT players to figure out the balance, and even that's precarious.....

Nahuris

[HRR Insanity]

IceSerpent, on 23 December 2012 - 12:07 PM, said:

Good idea as far as Clans vs. IS battles go, but doesn't cover the issue of a team using a mix of Clan and IS mechs - if that's not allowed IS units would cry foul, and if it is there's a need to balance this scenario.

The answer is tonnage limits. Clan 'Mech tonnage is 62% of IS. If there is a mix of IS and Clan on one side, their tonnage limitations are adjusted accordingly.

Example: 500t (8 IS, 0 Clan) ~ 455 (6 IS, 2 Clan) ~ 410 (4 IS, 4 Clan) ~ 365 (2 IS, 6 Clan) ~ 320 (8 Clan)

[Stingz]

Funky Bacon, on 23 December 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Isn't clan weapons generally a lot hotter than IS weapons? so even if they are lighter and stronger, wont they need more Heatsinks to be effective?

Yep, and their Ferro/Endo together take up 14 slots total(7 separately), DHS 2 slots, and XL engines that only have 2 slots per side torso(need both L/RT to kill).

Never run a Clan mech on SHS, it will feel like a Stalker-3F, but worse since everything is a ER based weapon. They only use SHS for cheap exports/outdated mechs.

Edited by Stingz, 23 December 2012 - 08:23 PM.

[Blue Shadow]

HRR Insanity, on 23 December 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Make Clan Tech as good as it should be (DHS at 2.0 and 2 crit slots, expected Clan weights for weapons, Omni slots, etc).

All Clan vs. IS drops should require PureTech (Clan Tech on Clan OmniMechs, IS Tech on IS BattleMechs).

[The forums respond... ] "But Insanity, Clan tech is BROKEN! TOO POWERFUL!! You are proposing the game be unbalanced! How will the IS compete?"

Solution: Clan vs. IS drops will be: 2 Lances (4+4) vs. 1 Star (5 'Mechs) and will have a maximum allowed weight of 63% of the IS Lances cumulative tonnage.

The Clans will always be outnumbered, but they will have more 'oomph' just as in the lore.

Discuss?

I wholeheartedly agree with you good sir!

[HRR Insanity]

verybad, on 23 December 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

No, 1.4 with a 2 crit size is fine. Clan hs are already better, no reason to make them extra better.

Disagree... but I could go either way on that.

Quote

Make clan stuff more expensive, and clan drops earn less money. That makes IS dropping a way to earn money. Agree with the smaller clan force sizes though also.

I'm not terribly convinced that the money difference would compensate for the feeling of 'invincibility' that the Clan Tech would give.... but it's worth testing.

Quote

Clans should play differenetly. They should get penalties for assisted kills, but more bonuses for kills. They should have a target pick system that makes it easy for other clan members to see who'se been "picked" (maybe surround that target in yellow rather than red or blue) This is because clans traditionally don't group up on targets. Make their LRMs have no minimum range, but have a penalty similiar to assited kills when used for Indirect fire. (Considered dishonorable) or at least no bonuses for indirect fire damage. Again, the Clans need to PLAY differently, not as a better group of toys.

I would probably give less bonuses for assists and maybe decreased bonuses for indirect fire, but keep in mind.. the Clans definitely adapted tactics and didn't always extend the Clan honor system to their IS opponents.

Good ideas, verybad.

[Critical Fumble]

I'm not so sure about uneven teams, but its a possibility. I half expect it to be more about the CW metagame, making attrition on Clan mechs much more severe than on IS mechs.

And they could mitigate the effect of Clan gear on IS mechs either by reducing the difference between IS and Clan gear less on IS mechs, or forcing you to mount a ClanTech adapter when you add them to your IS mech.

[IceCase88]

If I remember my BT and MW history correctly I believe the clans routed the IS units they engaged in just about every engagement during the initial part of their invasion. With the exception of a few isolated incidents, of course. Didn't it take an aerospace fighter pilot crashing into the bridge of a clan warship, killing the ilKhan, to slow the invasion until Comstar defeated them at Tukayyid? The Devs seem to follow the timeline pretty well. The clans won due to superior equipment and surprise. It would seem only proper to allow them to have the superior equipment for a time until the devs advance the timeline to Tukayyid. If people quit because they are tired of losing then let them and their fragile egos go. Every mech has strengths and weaknesses. Learn them and you will win. If the devs lose players who do not make purchases in a F2P game they are not losing much. The challenge of learning to defeat a near invincible enemy will be fun. Nerfing and balancing clan mechs to make them on par with IS mechs is a ridiculous idea. Why even introduce the clans?

[Cerlin]

I would also like to see each side "pure" as the OP talks about. If this could happen it would lead to some very thematic battles. I would look forward to them.

Also I dont want my inner sphere mechs to be teched into oblivion, that would be lame...