49 replies to this topic

[Stone Wall]

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[Desert Dingo]

This reminds me the good old days of Mercnet..... where lag shooting is way of life, where medium pulse lasers is THE weapon, where hellbringer is THE mech because of small hit bubble, and where entire website(Mercschool) was dedicated to the art of lag shooting.

[Stone Wall]

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[Al Bert]

with no technical comments right now: thank you very much for your dedicated guide/post...thumbs up from my side, big thank you!

Al Bert

[Turook]

As already noted by one other Aussie player here, it's even harder to do this in Australia.
The best ping I achieve on any given day is 280. on some it sits fairly stead at 400ish.

For the person that commented about the lag amount changing during the course of a game, it seems to be attribuatable to the amount of lag you already have. I have had games where the lead has changed several times in the middle of me killing another mech. It seems the larger the ping you start with the more the lead can and will change.

I am curious about the statement made that your dead friends that are ghosting on you can let you know if you are hitting accurately or not. Wouldn't the info have to travel from the client to the server back to the client back to the server back to the person ghosting making the info for the ghost completely wrong? Even if this is wrong (and it probably is), why would the person ghosting not be affected by the lag, while the pilot is?
I have had at least one instance where i had some ***** yelling at me that I was missing (from what he could see), but I could see the other mechs paper doll flashing and ignored him. 30 secs later the mech dropped.

[Taizan]

As much as I think this guide will help with lag shooting or human lag prediction, there still are disadvantages - your shots will lack precision and especially with lasers the damage will usually be spread out all over the armor instead of doing pin point damage.

During a match I usually have a ping of 150 - 400 and lag shooting works, but its more like a band aid to a symptom than an actual remedy. My lasers will hit with lag shooting, but the damage usually is much more spread out or inconsistent.

All lag shooting does is let you actually at least hit those little critters but not much more.

[HRR Insanity]

Taizan, on 06 January 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

As much as I think this guide will help with lag shooting or human lag prediction, there still are disadvantages - your shots will lack precision and especially with lasers the damage will usually be spread out all over the armor instead of doing pin point damage.

This is incorrect. While the convergence issues can be problematic due to the current choices by the Devs, individual weapons can be perfectly placed so long as you accurately displace the 'Mech position.

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During a match I usually have a ping of 150 - 400 and lag shooting works, but its more like a band aid to a symptom than an actual remedy. My lasers will hit with lag shooting, but the damage usually is much more spread out or inconsistent.

This is true, but it's largely the convergence issue. You can minimize this a bit by maintaining the focus point on the target 'Mech until just before your shot.

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All lag shooting does is let you actually at least hit those little critters but not much more.

Try using lag shooting with large ballistics.

[HRR Insanity]

Turook, on 05 January 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

As already noted by one other Aussie player here, it's even harder to do this in Australia.
The best ping I achieve on any given day is 280. on some it sits fairly stead at 400ish.

For the person that commented about the lag amount changing during the course of a game, it seems to be attribuatable to the amount of lag you already have. I have had games where the lead has changed several times in the middle of me killing another mech. It seems the larger the ping you start with the more the lead can and will change.

I am curious about the statement made that your dead friends that are ghosting on you can let you know if you are hitting accurately or not. Wouldn't the info have to travel from the client to the server back to the client back to the server back to the person ghosting making the info for the ghost completely wrong? Even if this is wrong (and it probably is), why would the person ghosting not be affected by the lag, while the pilot is?
I have had at least one instance where i had some ***** yelling at me that I was missing (from what he could see), but I could see the other mechs paper doll flashing and ignored him. 30 secs later the mech dropped.

In theory, the information being received from the server regarding weapon firing and movement of 'Mechs should be 'synched' before being sent to other players because the server is sending all of those updates to all other players.

The fact that you were 'hitting' on your client may have meant you were barely hitting the 'Mech you targeted (giving you a red recticule), but it's likely the majority of your weapons were missing. Keep in mind that the 'red recticle' occurs for ~500ms after ANY hit, even a single laser damage packet.

[ElLocoMarko]

So do we have consensus? Is the enemy "ragdoll" truth (only updated by server) or is it also maintained by the client, so that false client hits turn into false rag-doll damage. People are implying that it can be trusted but I want to hear it straight up.

Did anyone do some spectator mode voice-chat verification of it?
I really wish there was a sandbox where we could perform test cases.

[Sharp Spikes]

From my experience the only true indicator of hit or miss is the crosshair color.
Even now when I fire lasers I sometimes forget to shoot "thin air" ahead of my target and shoot at target itself. When I do so I see all appropriate grafics effects and hear sounds of me hitting on target, but crosshair remains yellow and "mech integrity precentage" of my opponent doesn't change.
Shooting (sometimes far) ahead of target mech, on the other hand, turns crosshair red and allows to score some damage on enemy.
Took me several days of frustration and swearing to figure it out.

P.S. I am playing with steady 230ms ping.

[HRR Mary]

The cross hair will light up, even if you do a small amount of damage on a mech.

Example : I Alpha my 9 medlas (HBK 4P) . Only my arm laser hit => Reticule lights up, although I have done 2/9th of the damage.

Another example : Reticule lights up, I've hit. On my screen, I'm dead center torso. On the Ragdoll, the damage displays only on the arm of my target.

So I have to assume, the Ragdoll is generated server-side, and it's only when I calibrate my shots from both infos that I actually do real damage.

I'm playing on a steady 130ms ping, but I have to lead at least a mech's length in front to get a hit, and that's for Heavies in the 60Kph range. it's much more in the case of a faster moving target.

[Abivard]

I bet none of the people who constantly camp the boards whining about lag-shield will ever bother to read this thread. maybe if it was posted under feedback and the topic sounded like a complaint?

Kentucky windage,

[Void Angel]

Wrong. We're well aware of how to account for lag shields, but those shields still provide a clear-cut and substantial advantage to most light 'mechs. You see, the really "good" bug abusers know what we're doing to shoot them, and take steps to compensate. These aren't the guys who run their commando around in a big circle while all the newbs try to chase them. These are the guys who will run through friendly and enemy 'mechs and up/down slopes to deliberately trigger screen shake and rubberbanding - my "favorite" incident was two lights circling a base in opposite directions. They constantly teleported around, making hitting them nearly impossible. Players, particularly new players, who experience these things are justly frustrated, and calling them whiners is asinine in the extreme.

Incidentally, I've run across players who report having no lag shield, in either direction - hypothesis is that their connection to the servers is very direct. Then there's the ^#$$&* Ravens whose hit boxes seem very buggy even at slow speeds. I've seen Ravens slowly trundle around in a circle and still absorb massive fire before going down. But I digress; the point is that if you're not having any trouble hitting 'mechs with your 1337 lag shooting $K1LLZ, it's quite probably some interaction of your hardware with the server hardware and netcode, and not just you being good; "kentucky windage" only helps so much.

[Hopback]

Will this problem of "lag shooting" eventually be resolved or is it just something that's ingrained? I mean... when the screen says my shot hit, it should have hit. Why do we have to learn other methods of shooting contrary to what the game tells us? This game fundamentally consists of two mechanics: moving and shooting. Those should have been the first two things they ironed out before moving on to anything else, right? I'm not gonna lie. I really can't blame lag for my terrible aim. But it's frustrating to see so many menial, basic problems in a game that's well past "version 1.0". I just want a fair, functioning Mechwarrior game. How long will it take them to give us just that?

Edited by Hopback, 15 January 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[Elizander]

Hopback, on 15 January 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

Will this problem of "lag shooting" eventually be resolved or is it just something that's ingrained? I mean... when the screen says my shot hit, it should have hit. Why do we have to learn other methods of shooting contrary to what the game tells us? This game fundamentally consists of two mechanics: moving and shooting. Those should have been the first two things they ironed out before moving on to anything else, right? I'm not gonna lie. I really can't blame lag for my terrible aim. But it's frustrating to see so many menial, basic problems in a game that's well past "version 1.0". I just want a fair, functioning Mechwarrior game. How long will it take them to give us just that?

They made a post stating that they have something more solid incoming to fix it. We'll have to wait and see how it turns out. Hopefully they will patch in within a month or two.

[Abivard]

do you want a work around or do you just want to complain?
If complaining is what you want go to feedback forum please.

[LordDante]

i do it this way ...
tag laser on check where crosshair starts/stopps getting red ... aim between those points ALPHASTRIKE
mentally T Bag Raven....
Move on ...

easy

[Hellen Wheels]

Abivard, on 15 January 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Kentucky windage,

Speaking of which, it seems to me that my ballistic weapons always sail left of the intended target, even if we're both stationary. The amount of drift to the left increases with distance, but 10 meters or 500 meters, it sails left. I think my barrel or sights (or both) are bent? It just seems odd to have to aim right at a stationary target, even when I am stationary. Maybe I've just got a bad hook.

=H=

Edited by Hellen Wheels, 16 January 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Vassa]

It would be a huge help if the client wasn't 'faking' hits. Why is the client the one deciding to play damage animations?

That info should be coming from the server. Those animations are what a lot of people are relying on as indication of being 'on target". It would go a long way to resolve lag problems if the clients didn't play damage animations from 'guessing'.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

You had me at the "hi".

Thumbs up for the spear + tennis ball reference. Even dummies should get the grasp of this concept now!
Good job!