108 replies to this topic

[COOL HANDS]

When MWO was annouced like many of you I was beside myself with excitement. For over a decade there was a drout of mech games and it seemed like our thirst for mech battles would never be quenched. I watched this game go from concepts to finally being realized and it appeared that the pgi team was well on there way to creating a awsome representation of the fabled franchise. But as the days and months went by from closed to open beta I began to notice the shift from the hardcore player to the very casual.Things like rnr being removed while it wasn't perfect it did give some sense of immersion of managing your cbills and maintaining a mech from match to match sort of like a balancing act if you will. Even though I've managed to get an xl engine in the current economy.I didn't feel no sense of achievment.Then there's the ecm while I agree that something needed to be done about lrms and streaks the ecm is a little too potent. Me personaly I would have ratherd pgi toned down the damage of the lrms and streaks and then put in a ecm that worked but at the same time didn't make every mech carring it invincible.Add the lagshield and bad netcode and your in for a long day.There's also groups asking for 3rd person view and respawns to be implemented into the game. But whenever the harcore base rasises there concerns about the said issues. Were either shun ignored or hated for simply wanting the frachise to stay true to the TT and the lore as humanly possible.Even though I hate to admit it as it sits now it seems like the hardcore player has no voice here.Heaven forbid we start asking for mechs that never overheat. I still play the gane often but youll have to forgive me if I'm a little skeptical and doubtful of the direction the game is going.

[The Cheese]

Hardcore TT fans (I think that's what you really mean) are the minority. The minority won't pay the bills.

A good, playable game is vastly more important than sticking to some numbers that were designed for an entirely different game type.

Edited by The Cheese, 24 December 2012 - 03:31 AM.

[Valder]

Heat is neat. The great equalizer.

How do you think it would play if the Doom video game and Doom boardgame were the same game experience? Not only would it be broken, but at least 1 would be guaranteed to be terrible...

[Deadoon]

Bad grammer, generic name, liking your own post, and not even spacing it out along with not even paying attention to the forums?


Here is a little tip, around 90% of us don't want third person and RnR was broken at a core level, armor cost more to repair that Xl engines, ammo costs more than armor and we don't even get adequate amounts of it per ton either compared to TT. An ac/2 is pretty much equivalent to 3 Rotary ac/2 and an ultra combined. The ppc is a direct damage, minimum range effective version of the large laser, with large lasers firing for an entire second at a time.

Also, narc beacons need proper ammo, narc capable ammo. That costs as much as artemis ammo but you don't hear people complain about that do you?

Most people who want the franchise to stay true to lore are over reaching, some of the stuff makes sense in a game but other stuff doesn't at all, such as C3 systems and command consoles. They fixed the issue by making all everyone have C3, and command consoles will have some other use.

Net code they are working on, give it time. Also the thing about hard core players raising concerns and being shunned is due to lack of foresight by those "hard core" players. They don't understand half the time that they alone cannot support this game, the game needs the masses, the moderate game players, the common player, the pick up gamer, the "casual". You cannot make a game and expect it to succeed without a massive target audience.


Oh and here is a thing about overheating mechs, most mech designs do not overheat, even with alpha strikes in tt.

Edited by Deadoon, 24 December 2012 - 03:43 AM.

[Thirdstar]

The fact that he liked his own post is enough to tell me that there was nothing of value contained within at all.

I award you no internet points and may god have mercy on your soul.

[King Arthur IV]

where is the down vote button?

[Noesis]

BT/TT fans do have a voice, the complication is translating a turn based, bird's eye view and multi-mech game into a real time, 1st perspective and singular mech simulation.

As much as the rules and lore from the BT Universe helps to embellish a lot of the material supplied with the devs trying to maintain as close an experience to that but also ensuring that it actually works for the kind of experience they want to apply to ensure having an effective Mechwarrior Simulation that works as an MMO where players play as pilots.

From the cacophony of requests I personally don't see the devs accommodating all requests, and especially not those drawn from external influences to the BT game.

Being a TT fan you'd also be aware to the many layers of functionality yet to be introduced into the game to give some overall understanding to some semblance of complete game play experience, so basing any conclusions on the flavour of an incomplete cake now is a little premature and not a fair or logical premise. So there isn't really an need to be so alarmist about the game direction now whilst this cake gets assembled and things are changed around to make it workable in the interim steps.

In short I think the OP is simply over exaggerating his opinion on a few bugs and features (though inaccurately in places) to make some kind of global summary but with a "strawman" mentality. Especially as has been advised that some of the concerns mentioned have already been communicated as something the devs are already looking into.

I suspect passions are blinding objectivity a little here.

[BatWing]

In general i do understand the OP feelings here.

Without getting to alarmist, there are 2 important things to remember:

1 - It is still in BETA, possibly it will be forever (..joking?). However modifications have to happen to solve core issues. What direction is taking is actually difficult to say.

2 - They have to make money. MW at the "hard core" level has quite a little community. Little when we are talking about making Money. This game is not for Free, they need to make money. They will drive this game toward the mass because they need a solid pool to enjoy this game. Adjustments will be done to mediate the HC to the Mass.

At the beginning PGI was promising a Mech Simulation to recreate the HC experience. Either the were believing in that or not, doesn t make that much of a difference. Working on the project I m pretty sure they understood that without mediation, MWO will not survive.

We will see what happens in the future.. if it will ever get out of the BETA phase.

[CypherHalo]

Blech. I'm really trying to think of a way to be polite here. Look, this game needs to be appeal to a wide audience, if they don't then the game dies and you get no MW game. All the things they have changed recently should have been done ages ago back when the game went open beta. Also, not every MW fan wants what you want. I would consider myself an MW fan, having played every game since MW2. No, I have never played TT, but there are A LOT of people who have never played or even knew one existed. To demand that this game follow the example of TT, well, I don't get it. That is not the formula for success or for pleasing anyone except the TT p;layers, who once again, are few in number.

So, I love MW and was super-excited to hear about this game. I have tried and it is dull and boring. Not anything like MW4. There are some improvements, notably in the graphics, control scheme, and most of the weapons. By weapons, I mean I love how the lasers have a beam that can stitch across the enemy, super cool. LRMs are a little annoying in this game and I don't remember them ever being so annoying in any other MW game, though in MW4 they flew in an arc, so they had terrible close range accuracy. I've always thought that should be the case in this game and seems like a simple fix for LRMs. Once I'm in ML range, your LRMs really should be A LOT less effective. I don't see why I have to close practically knife-fighting range to neutralize your LRMs. ECM is a bit OP in my mind too but wouldn't need to be OP if they fixed LRMs.

Anyway, the good points aside the game is simply dull. They finally fixed the grind issue with the cadet bonus, two months too late IMO. Removing RnR costs helped up the fun considerably as driving a heavy or assault no longer means I will lose out on money. Seriously, RnR costs just made me feel like I was constantly losing out and that is horrible for an F2P game that NEEDS you to grind. If repairs could come out of some other resource instead of c-bills, saying you could earn "metal" and you could earn c-bills, and the "metal" was only for repairs while c-bills were for mechs, then they could re-implement RnR.

Finally, YES, this game NEEDS NEEDS NEEDS respawns! Keep Assault mode without respawns for the "hardcore" crowd. However it has always mystified me that they have NO respawns in ANY game mode. I was utterly FLABBERGASTED when I played my first match, died (of course), and then could do NOTHING. That just floored me. Over time, I learned I could quit the match but that is only a marginal improvement as now I no longer know the outcome of the match. Want to know why you see so many people abusing the system and doing AFK? Because it doesn't matter. Most of the time I don't see the outcome of the match so why care? Heck, here's my other point on respawns. Without them, the winner is usually clear early on. The first team to eliminate 2-3 of the enemy usually goes on to win. This is very different from other games which have respawns where I've seen the kill count go from one team down by 5 or 10 to neck and neck to even winning the game. It provides a lot more tension and excitement as you struggle to win. In MWO, there's none of that. Finally, respanws help because sometimes I may make a dumb move, my team may not be so great, or I may sacrifice myself to help my team. In all these situations, it would be nice to be able to get back into the fight and try for victory. Especially if I make a dumb move, I'd like to redeem myself.

Well, I've practically written a novel here, sorry. Anyway, if the devs read this I hope it shows them that I passionately want this game to succeed but I can only be honest and say the game is dull and boring and I'm sorry but they cannot cater to a small crowd of "hardcore" players to succeed. I think they can have some things for the "hardcore" players but this game needs a lot of changes to truly succeed. They've made some positive steps but they need to go to the rest of the way, starting with making Conquest mode a proper "conquest" mode by implement respawns and making the only victory condition be "get resources to 750".

[SlXSlXSlX]

Like this, im sure its not in the lore but.

Look at the ground press a button, something shoots of of the winch built into your ct. You back peddle 50-100 yards and the wench is unraveling, but its thin so unless u look hard, mb w out heat vision u dont see it. An enemy fasty flies by. Hit a button and SNAP. It was alassoo, or more specifically a winch w a slip knot at the end.

If I was trying to catch some fast long legged thing today, well I might use something like this. Then it pulls them in and you can have a tonnage/engine power fight while also shooting eachother as the light is drug into the hungry phract 4x (LOVE YOU 4x).

Its noob friendly, ecm proof, sould give new players a false sense they can now deal w raven ecm mechs, but in liklihood it wouldnt be that easy at all/ie loop covers small area of ground.

Id love to pull those little sobs into me and punch the snot out of them (i also have a max engine commando so I too tabble in the dark lag shield arts.) They need a counter my commando may be my highest winning mech solely due to lag/ecm etc.

Think about it, it would attract new players, but would **** of hardcore purists. You could scream "Get over here" like mortal kombat scorpion when and if u ever snag one. Wil we ever see outside of the box xolutions for in game issues in the interest of balance?

*watch the fanboys reaction, and predict*

My guess is the response will resound in something about not staying true.. QQ kachoo.

[Noesis]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 December 2012 - 07:43 AM, said:

Like this, im sure its not in the lore but.

Look at the ground press a button, something shoots of of the winch built into your ct. You back peddle 50-100 yards and the wench is unraveling, but its thin so unless u look hard, mb w out heat vision u dont see it. An enemy fasty flies by. Hit a button and SNAP. It was alassoo, or more specifically a winch w a slip knot at the end.

If I was trying to catch some fast long legged thing today, well I might use something like this. Then it pulls them in and you can have a tonnage/engine power fight while also shooting eachother as the light is drug into the hungry phract 4x (LOVE YOU 4x).

Its noob friendly, ecm proof, sould give new players a false sense they can now deal w raven ecm mechs, but in liklihood it wouldnt be that easy at all/ie loop covers small area of ground.

Id love to pull those little sobs into me and punch the snot out of them (i also have a max engine commando so I too tabble in the dark lag shield arts.) They need a counter my commando may be my highest winning mech solely due to lag/ecm etc.

Think about it, it would attract new players, but would **** of hardcore purists. You could scream "Get over here" like mortal kombat scorpion when and if u ever snag one. Wil we ever see outside of the box xolutions for in game issues in the interest of balance?

*watch the fanboys reaction, and predict*

My guess is the response will resound in something about not staying true.. QQ kachoo.

Techmanual Page 230:

Quote

Harpoon SRMs: A maritime hunter’s weapon not designed for the battlefield, the SRM harpoon is the heaviest of its kind. Essentially little more than a kinetic, piercing head and a reinforced, detachable cable, the SRM-launched harpoon can pierce the hide of most any marine animal known in the Inner Sphere, and tow the hapless—and, hopefully, mercifully
dead—creature into the vessel. While they can be quite effective against unarmored infantry, battlefield armor is effectively immune to the standard harpoon SRM, and most vehicles or ’Mechs could make quick work of the tow cable even if successfully speared.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Seriously though.....



GET OVER HERE! Raven.

Love it.

[panzereich]

Everthing is here to make a great game and the devs said themselves that if they get enough suckers to buy bobbleheads,
then they will think about doing mechwarrior properly and with single player component.

All of this really is bs. I would have paid $80 for the complete package.

[SlXSlXSlX]

Thats part of teh problem.. many hardcore older players wish they were jsut playing single player missions, spamming lrms like a weanie.

A hardcore mode for them would be great. Segregation from fledgling customers, and they can finally feel like they are a digital recreation of a piece in a board game from the 80s. Apparently, thats what they want.

Are you saying that harppon could be the basis for what im suggesting.. OR .. bc it said it failed versus mechs alrgely are you telling me i have to get a ****** half *** version of what I suggested bc in your lore, it wasnt very effective?

[Noesis]

SlXSlXSlX, on 24 December 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

Thats part of teh problem.. many hardcore older players wish they were jsut playing single player missions, spamming lrms like a weanie.

A hardcore mode for them would be great. Segregation from fledgling customers, and they can finally feel like they are a digital recreation of a piece in a board game from the 80s. Apparently, thats what they want.

Are you saying that harppon could be the basis for what im suggesting.. OR .. bc it said it failed versus mechs alrgely are you telling me i have to get a ****** half *** version of what I suggested bc in your lore, it wasnt very effective?

You can project how you like, just pointing out that there is provision for your suggestion as per canon.

[Roland]

The op does not seen like much of a " hardcore mechwarrior" to me.

[SlXSlXSlX]

No projections.. termed as a question? Do you mean bc in the canon (synonym for lore???????) it sucked, the ig one would suck to.. or do you mean we have a starting point here we can work from to make something like this a viable ig option???

Zero projections.. im far from miss cleo.

[Lefty Lucy]

I *am* a hardcore BT fan. I have a few companies of pewter minis painted up that proves that. I have Total Warfare pretty well memorized cover-to-cover and I remember "how it used to work" when infernos had a 50% chance to wreck any vehicle they touched, could be fired from SSRM2 launchers, and taking partial cover was a death sentence.

I realize that turning BT into a video game faithfully has a few major obstacles and flaws to successful translation:

1. Weapon balance. Nobody wants to play a game where PPCs, MLs and *maybe* SRMs, LRMs, and AC20s are worth using. The AC2/5 are utter trash in TT, and the AC10 is pretty marginal, usually better replaced by a PPC or LL. As flawed as it is MWO actually has better weapon balance than TT right now.

2. TT has short engagement times. TT *feels* like an epic slugfest because games take a few hours to play 10 turns. However, 10 turns is only 1 minute 40 seconds. That *includes* at least two turns of positioning where both sides get into position to engage. Would *you* enjoy if every MWO match only lasted at most 3 minutes? Doubled armor/internals was implemented partly for this reason and partly because...

3. ... you hit what you aim for in MWO, but hit locations are random in TT. The developers of MWO want to reward player skill, and adding in a "cone of fire" for lasers would feel really silly.

4. TT has the player firing once every 10 seconds. As with most TT mechanics, this is just an abstraction to make for a playable game. Are the mechs *actually* waiting for everyone to move, then waiting for everyone to fire? No, they're moving and firing simultaneously, taking cover, etc. Following a strict TT turn order would make for a turn-based strategy game, not an FPS.

5. Heat mechanics in fiction versus TT. In the fiction even a Locust pilot worries about heat, despite the fact that in TT the locust is completely heat neutral, even with an engine hit. While the developers' lack of math skills is disturbing, I appreciate that they are attempting to make it so that heat is a worry for all mechs, and isn't something you can just design away in mechlab. This does, however, make nearly *any* canon design extremely flawed, so I think this is the place that could use the most tweaking in MOW, balance-wise.

[KinLuu]

OP has 6 X-es in the name, thus OP can not be older than 13. 13-year old kids don't play TT. Obvious troll.

[Kunae]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 December 2012 - 08:09 AM, said:

3. ... you hit what you aim for in MWO, but hit locations are random in TT. The developers of MWO want to reward player skill, and adding in a "cone of fire" for lasers would feel really silly.

Which is precisely my reasoning for them to remove SSRMs. There is no skill involved with them, and there should never be an "always hits" weapon, in this game.