159 replies to this topic

[Mcguire]

I know this is a very sensitive subject and i would ask for no flamers on this one. heres the truth guys Pgi came out and set a limit on team size, the reason is because the really hard core wanted 8 vs 8 and the large premades were crushing the pugs problem solved, Not so now the hardcore guys say it takes to long to get a group or there all jenners Ecm atlas's or ravens and this isnt fun, ya i get it Guess there wernt so many hardcore premades out there hence the long wait. the reality i play other mmo's and as such i advertise to my friends and sometimes a general chat convo breaks out and games are discussed the #1 reason players site as not wanting to play mwo or playing it more then a couple times is the preception that the premades are crushing everyone and now back to the truth other threads talk about this game going the way of the dodo bird, well it may but you only have yourself to blame. we all have seen this Sync dropping premade 4mans hitting rdy at the same time. Guys/gals i really do enjoy this game have since early beta i play usually in a 3-4man myself but after reading some other threads today i just had to post. PGI is not the problem look in the mirror If you want it to be better make it better stop breaking the TOS theres nothing to be gained except maybe an 11.0 kill ratio or and ton of Xp you'll never use jeez its a game a nice one that has a super future if you'll let it.

[SlXSlXSlX]

If the premades farmed the community to death, and the servers had to be shut off.... even then... they still would not acknowledge it was their pub farming that caused it. They would point at PGI, before they pointed at themselves. As long as they have the mechanics available to stack teams, whatever they may be, they will. The mechanics need to be reviewed in light of this issue, in my humblest of opinions...

[Kraven Kor]

SlXSlXSlX, on 04 January 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

If the premades farmed the community to death, and the servers had to be shut off.... even then... they still would not acknowledge it was their pub farming that caused it. They would point at PGI, before they pointed at themselves. As long as they have the mechanics available to stack teams, whatever they may be, they will. The mechanics need to be reviewed in light of this issue, in my humblest of opinions...

If the lone wolves demanded no teams, and got their way, and the servers had to be shut off... they would still not acknowledge that it was their demands to nerf team play that caused it.

Works both ways.

And hyperbole is almost always untruthful.

[Shadowlee]

I agree there is a problem with this game. I have seen premades that were obvously a 8 man premade when we were not. they even say so in the game. Thay also advertise who they are and laugh that we are a pug.

[SlXSlXSlX]

True Kraven.. I truely believe that would not occur, truely I do, but see your point. Sad part, by the time anyone realizes which of these two groups was right, it will be too late to do much about it.

[Kaspirikay]

Shitstorm inc

[Serapth]

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

If the lone wolves demanded no teams, and got their way, and the servers had to be shut off... they would still not acknowledge that it was their demands to nerf team play that caused it.

Works both ways.

And hyperbole is almost always untruthful.

You mean if the Pugs asked for an equal playing ground?

There is still no reason they cant support both, I mentioned it yesterday that they could solve most problems by simply putting a premade on each side. DONE.

PUG != Noob
PUG != Lone wolf

Edited by Serapth, 04 January 2013 - 03:17 PM.

[G4M3R]

No one plays 8v8 anymore because there's not tonnage restrictions. So you can't "PUG" 8v8. It took my clan like 15 mins to even find ONE game.

Until PGI does tonnage restrictions there's no point doing 8v8 PUG. We can't even scrimm with other clans that easily. 3 games in 2.5 hours. Without a lobby, it makes leagues like RHOD a big waste of time because joining an actual match is hard.

Heck RHOD teams self-police tonnage - all PGI has to do is to allow us to "find" each other better.

[Kraven Kor]

SlXSlXSlX, on 04 January 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

True Kraven.. I truely believe that would not occur, truely I do, but see your point. Sad part, by the time anyone realizes which of these two groups was right, it will be too late to do much about it.

Which means they need to find a happy middle ground between the two, provide us more tools to see the truth (like the "we are in a team" icon or whatever.)

But if you keep making the argument that "Premades are ruining the game" you only drive the wedge in further.

I'm not making the argument that PUGs are ruining the game; just providing my own opinions about PUG vs. Premade and not understanding the "Oh god, I lost a match, it must have been a PREMADE!" boogey-man argument. Again, no offense.

G4M3R, on 04 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

No one plays 8v8 anymore because there's not tonnage restrictions. So you can't "PUG" 8v8. It took my clan like 15 mins to even find ONE game.

Until PGI does tonnage restrictions there's no point doing 8v8 PUG. We can't even scrimm with other clans that easily. 3 games in 2.5 hours. Without a lobby, it makes leagues like RHOD a big waste of time because joining an actual match is hard.

Heck RHOD teams self-police tonnage - all PGI has to do is to allow us to "find" each other better.

My unit manage about four 8v8 drops per hour... even including the occasional "Failed to find match" or having to fill an open slot (but, FWLM is good for that as it is dozens of units on one TS / Forum.)

[Serapth]

G4M3R, on 04 January 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

No one plays 8v8 anymore because there's not tonnage restrictions. So you can't "PUG" 8v8. It took my clan like 15 mins to even find ONE game.

Until PGI does tonnage restrictions there's no point doing 8v8 PUG. We can't even scrimm with other clans that easily. 3 games in 2.5 hours. Without a lobby, it makes leagues like RHOD a big waste of time because joining an actual match is hard.

Heck RHOD teams self-police tonnage - all PGI has to do is to allow us to "find" each other better.

Hell, a lobby and user controlled match maker would make everything better.

If I want a super specialized game and am willing to wait for others that want to join, damnit I should be able to. Then you could do things like say... PuG only matches. No ECM matches. Etc... The more specifics you add, the longer you will wait of course, but if what you want is actually popular with the community, your wait wont be long at all.

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

I'm not making the argument that PUGs are ruining the game; just providing my own opinions about PUG vs. Premade and not understanding the "Oh god, I lost a match, it must have been a PREMADE!" boogey-man argument. Again, no offense.

Then why be offensive? Being dismissive of the problem is being offensive... you don't know its a bogieman or not, none of us do.

[Kraven Kor]

I PUG and do 4man and 8man.

I've seen the groups trying, and failing, to synch drop.

I've been accused of being synched 8v8 drop even when running solo.

While there is some truth (ie. synched drops do happen, the matchmaker sucks at putting a 4-man on both sides, etc.) it really is, in fact, a boogey-man argument and I know this because I have researched it myself. I won't claim to be 100% infallibly correct on this, but I will say that I'm 95% confident I am correct on this.

And really, neither of the extremes are helping - "DISABLE 8MAN TEAMS" is just as silly as "DISABLE THE OPTION TO DROP SOLO!" which we have seen both suggested (the latter generally as a sarcastic response to the former.)

[GODzillaGSPB]

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

If the lone wolves demanded no teams, and got their way, and the servers had to be shut off... they would still not acknowledge that it was their demands to nerf team play that caused it.

Works both ways.

And hyperbole is almost always untruthful.

There is no problem with 4-man-teams. I know it because I sometimes play with them, while I usually pug.

You get 4-man-teams, you got 8-man-teams and you got pugs. Plus 8-man always play against 8-man. There is something for everyone, but some people are not happy. Ever. Never! They will abuse if they can and will accuse the existence of this abuse as cause and reason for their actions.

I think this is pathetic! But who am I to judge, right?

[Kraven Kor]

Serapth, on 04 January 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

Hell, a lobby and user controlled match maker would make everything better.

Except that would be gamed something fierce unless said "user controlled match making" had zero rewards and did not affect (pad...) your stats.

I wish I had enough faith in humanity to think that the custom match making would not be abused to all hell, but I know better

[zenstrata]

The whole pug/premade topic is silly.

This is a team game. If you do not want to play and work together as a team, you are in the wrong game.

All it takes to be successful is a little teamwork. You have all the tools you need to be successful. Watch your mini-maps, work together with your team mates. Everyone is on a 'premade' in every game. The only difference is some people choose to talk to their team and some people don't.

[Serapth]

GODzillaGSPB, on 04 January 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

There is no problem with 4-man-teams. I know it because I sometimes play with them, while I usually pug.

You get 4-man-teams, you got 8-man-teams and you got pugs. Plus 8-man always play against 8-man. There is something for everyone, but some people are not happy. Ever. Never! They will abuse if they can and will accuse the existence of this abuse as cause and reason for their actions.

I think this is pathetic! But who am I to judge, right?

There is no problem for you.

Have 50% of one side having advanced knowledge of what mechs they are going to bring, having a prepared strategy and being in voice communication throughout a match is a MASSIVE advantage. This is far more over powered then ECM is, by a mile. A PuG group defeating people with these advantages is a major accomplishment. Unless your premade completely suck, they should dominate.

Now, if the matchmaker guaranteed a premade on each side of the fight... that then is balanced AND would lead to actually interesting fights instead of a one side stat padding exercise.

[Groove Crusader Blue]

Shadowlee, on 04 January 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

I agree there is a problem with this game. I have seen premades that were obvously a 8 man premade when we were not. they even say so in the game. Thay also advertise who they are and laugh that we are a pug.

I have had several of the same in intances when my PUG team is going against an 8 man premade but often we triumph through being a team. light mechs get targets for our lrms and they soften them up for us brawlers and the rest of us just blow them away. therefore i dont see a problem with this game just the teams

[Serapth]

zenstrata, on 04 January 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

The whole pug/premade topic is silly.

This is a team game. If you do not want to play and work together as a team, you are in the wrong game.

All it takes to be successful is a little teamwork. You have all the tools you need to be successful. Watch your mini-maps, work together with your team mates. Everyone is on a 'premade' in every game. The only difference is some people choose to talk to their team and some people don't.

Whats silly is this stupid argument, it comes up in EVERY pug thread.

Guess what, this team game has NO team aspects yet. The grouping is pathetic, the voip doesnt work, there is no lobby, no adhoc groups, just a half hearted friends list and the requirement to use a 3rd party chat solution.

This is not a team game, not yet. Once there is chat in game and pugs can communicate the same way premades can, perhaps your comment might have merit.



What you really mean to say is "I premade, like padding my stats, and therefore dont care about the rest of you. If you want to enjoy the game, play like I do".

Edited by Serapth, 04 January 2013 - 03:35 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

Serapth, on 04 January 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

What you really mean to say is "I premade, like padding my stats, and therefore dont care about the rest of you. If you want to enjoy the game, play like I do".

And the circular argument continues.

So long as you believe that most or all premades are "just padding their stats" and keep tossing around insults and insinuations, there can't be a discussion.

That goes for the "Why u no join team?" crowd as well.

[Serapth]

Kraven Kor, on 04 January 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

And the circular argument continues.

So long as you believe that most or all premades are "just padding their stats" and keep tossing around insults and insinuations, there can't be a discussion.

That goes for the "Why u no join team?" crowd as well.

Frankly, I cant fathom a reason why people wouldn't support adding a premade to each side of the match. The only argument that holds water is they enjoy pugstomping/stat padding.

Can you think of a valid reason to oppose such a suggestion? Besides, the difference is, the PuG side believe that things need to be changed. The majority of premades like the unbalanced status-quo.

Edited by Serapth, 04 January 2013 - 03:42 PM.

[Gorthaur]

Most of the clans I have played don't play 8v8 because it takes forever to get 8 people together on most nights. This is especially true with everyone doing stuff for the holidays.

Our clan just does sync drops when we have odd numbers so we can play together honestly. Like when we have 6 people and want to do some practice we drop with 2 groups of 3. And this is true for plenty of other clans we have played with.

So don't just lump all premades into being "farmers".