65 replies to this topic

[verybad]

Ok, this is coming next month, and I'm wondering just how they can make it competitive while keeping it's builds.similiar to their base.

Most Spiders of this era carry a load like this:
3 tons or so of armor,
8 jets (this will be interesting)
1-2 medium or medium pulse lasers some with 1 laser and a couple flamers or machine guns.
The base engine is a 240 standard. (so yes, this mech will move)

Obvious answers to make it more competitive:
ECM (Number one way to increase any mechs capability)
4 Energy slots on most builds. Any less than that and you're not getting anything with a light energy build mech.

Machine guns and flamers being drastically buffed would help the spider, but they'd help other mechs more so...

There are no missile using spiders I know of, so an SSRM vaiant is unlikely. It won't be able to match the Commando's firepower...So even if it has ECM, it's just not going to bring the pain.

I just don't see how this mech can be made compelling. I want to like it, it's extremely mobile, and it will have better jumping capability than any mech in the game, but it's going to hit like a barbie doll.

Considering the speed, I imagine most builds will use XL engines, because armor isn't going to be it's weapon, so I suppose you might be able to use a Large Laser or PPC and harrass with it 250 the engine so you're engine heat sinks are all there for better heat capability, and then just jump arround till someone smacks you.

It should be better at base/mine capturing than any other mech IF it gets ECM, It should work very well as a true scout (ie avoiding combat in most cases), give it a TAG and go for assists.

So what are your thoughts? I'll probably buy one, just because I want it, but I'm a bit concerned at it's potential. I guess you could say I'm on the walll...

Edited by verybad, 27 December 2012 - 09:37 AM.

[Phalanx100bc]

You'll hardly get touched because of the ridiculous lag-shield, so what's the worry?

[Helmer]

Good question, I've been wondering myself. I figured the slight decrease in Jump Jet capabilities was in response to the 8 JJ that a Spider has.

The Commando sees a lot of use. I figure a more maneuverable, energy based Commando. But I guess we will see.




Cheers.

[Hobo Dan]

If they are able to fix the lag via the netcode updates due in January that should allow them to remove the current speed limit making the Spider the fastest mech in game (if my math is right ).

I'd also like to see more JJ maneuverability, which would be a big buff to the Spider.

[verybad]

Phalanx100bc, on 27 December 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

You'll hardly get touched because of the ridiculous lag-shield, so what's the worry?

Lag shield isn't something the Spider will have all to itself, so it's irrelevant. Will it's lower potential firepower be to much of a deterrent to make it used frequently in this game? The main thing it's got that no other mech will have are 8 jump jets. It'll be agile, there's no doubt about that, but will it have enough going for it to make it used past the first week it's released?

The Commando built a small, but sturdy niche for itself, where will the Spider fit?

Edited by verybad, 27 December 2012 - 09:46 AM.

[Phalanx100bc]

verybad, on 27 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Lag shield isn't something the Spider will have all to itself, so it's irrelevant. Will it's lower potential firepower be to much of a deterrent to make it used frequently in this game? The main thing it's got that no other mech will have are 8 jump jets. It'll be agile, there's no doubt about that, but will it have enough going for it to make it used past the first week it's released?

The Commando built a small, but sturdy niche for itself, where will the Spider fit?

I guessing you have never seen mid-air warps by scouts? Or is that purely netcode issue?

Edited by Phalanx100bc, 27 December 2012 - 09:57 AM.

[verybad]

As I said. The Spider won't have Lag Shield all to itself. All other fast mechs get it. So it's not a trait the Spider has as an advantage compared to other lights, it's got to stand out on it's OWN merrits.

Saying that's an advantage for the Spider is like mentioning that it can carry medium lasers, which are a good weapon as an advantage.

Edited by verybad, 27 December 2012 - 10:01 AM.

[Tickdoff Tank]

verybad, on 27 December 2012 - 09:45 AM, said:

Lag shield isn't something the Spider will have all to itself, so it's irrelevant. Will it's lower potential firepower be to much of a deterrent to make it used frequently in this game? The main thing it's got that no other mech will have are 8 jump jets. It'll be agile, there's no doubt about that, but will it have enough going for it to make it used past the first week it's released?

The Commando built a small, but sturdy niche for itself, where will the Spider fit?

The spider will have more armor due to being 5 tons heavier than the commando, but it will really depend on what hard points the mech gets. The stock config has 2 ML in the CT, not much room to change that, but I hope they give the stock spider at least 1 other hardpoint on an arm.

Some of the other variants have a little more potential, but there is no denying that the Spider is light on weapons in all variations.

[verybad]

They're gonna have to give it really good performance (arm movement, torso twiest, turning, etc) or it's going to be a complete wash.

As I said, I WANT this mech to be useful, it's just going to be hard to make it so.

[Dakkath]

The biggest issue is the netcode at this point in putting one of these mechs out in the field. Once they fix that, this thing is going to be pretty damn cool to play with and against AND will be invaluable on the newer bigger maps.

[Ryvucz]

I'll pilot this thing like no tomorrow.

Unless of course, the thrust from that many jump jets is sub-par.

[Odanan]

I guess they will have to move some hardpoints in the Spider variants to make them competitive. Here is a speculation of how Spider variants will be.

[verybad]

The speed verse other mechs isn't necessarilly that advantageous. You can make any mech from the Commando to a Cicada max out the speed. The only advantage I see it having is the 8 possible jets, and that's a somewhat dodgy advantage with their current capability It will be able to jump well sure, but would it be able to do something like jump FROM the river to a bridge in River City?

The jumping capability is not necessarilly all that advantageous, and it's not useful in all situations.

[Joseph Mallan]

Spider+Endo+FFA=extra armor
Spider+XL+Endo+Extra Armor

The Spider will be fine once it is fixed. It was a Glass Spider (No not the Clan Mech) due to its lack of armor.

[Redshift2k5]

It's only merit, on paper, in comparison to other lights, would be the jumpjets. Let's hope that can make enough of a difference.

There are unseen facotes as well such as number of module slots (lots?) and variables such as torso turn, torso twist speed, acceleration. etc etc. Maybe it will be super maneuverable.

[Keisuke Nagisa]

I'm looking forward to the spider. It wont be as unique as in canon. In canon not many mechs of the time can match its speed, but in MWO with the widespread use of XL engines most other lights can keep up with it. 8 JJ will be interesting. Im hoping they work with JJ acceleration and trajectory (I know they said they are going to fix trajectory) as JJ as they are now aren't very exciting.


My guess for hardpoints will be something like 4 energy in torso on the 5V, 2 energy (CT) and 2 ballistic (arms) on the 5K, and 4 energy (CT and arms) on the 5D

[PropagandaWar]

While I get annoyed by lag shield just as much as the next guy it does occur with all mechs. Hitting a dragon with my hunchback several times full in the CT yesterday it took about 5 hits to register in fact it made it one of those rare occasions my Hunchy ran out of SRM ammo he died eventually but It should have been way quicker. The only reason its more noticible with lights is there speed and hitting them is not as simple especially with balisticas so dead on no reg gets annoying. I think the spider will be the light jumper from hell and be quite fun to watch lagshield or no. I doubt I'll play it as I am mainly a medium and light heavy pilot.

[verybad]

Keisuke Nagisa, on 27 December 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

I'm looking forward to the spider. It wont be as unique as in canon. In canon not many mechs of the time can match its speed, but in MWO with the widespread use of XL engines most other lights can keep up with it. 8 JJ will be interesting. Im hoping they work with JJ acceleration and trajectory (I know they said they are going to fix trajectory) as JJ as they are now aren't very exciting.


My guess for hardpoints will be something like 4 energy in torso on the 5V, 2 energy (CT) and 2 ballistic (arms) on the 5K, and 4 energy (CT and arms) on the 5D

Sounds about right to me. I think it's going to have to be a more pure scout than light striker.It's just not going to have much firepower.

[CDLord HHGD]

Dakkath, on 27 December 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

The biggest issue is the netcode at this point in putting one of these mechs out in the field. Once they fix that, this thing is going to be pretty damn cool to play with and against AND will be invaluable on the newer bigger maps.

Being a Community Moderator, are you more "in the know" than the rest of us peons? I probably just missed the bigger maps announcement too..... Eeeeeenteresting......

[Jetfire]

8 JJ's should make this the only high flying mech in the game. It should have the highest current top speed with its largest engine until the Flea. It should also come with the Netcode fixes on the 15th so the artificial top speed limit should go away as well. If those things all happen it could be a pretty irritating mech. Just imagine a swarm of jumping spiders compared to ravens.