51 replies to this topic

[Irvine]

For some reason this past week i have played better pugging than on TS. Am i the only one who has fun solo pugging!? YES I DID PLAY AGAINST PREMADES! 0.o

[Kraven Kor]

Irvine, on 27 December 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

For some reason this past week i have played better pugging than on TS. Am i the only one who has fun solo pugging!? YES I DID PLAY AGAINST PREMADES! 0.o

Unpossible.

All premades are unstoppable juggernauts, using hax and exploits to purposefully drive new players away from the game.

Did I miss anything particularly hyperbolic?

[Valleros]

Turbo Corvair, on 27 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

This game is about teamwork.... role warfare ya know? You don't have to join a faction or a unit to drop with a team!

Go join a voice comm server. Go to No Guts No Galaxy or some other MWO voice server. I say again, you don't have to join a unit to play in a four man team!

If you choose not to use voice comms that is on you, not PGI.

Go ahead, call me a fanboy and ignore my advice. If you insist on throwing yourself under the bus you don't have anyone to blame but yourself.

What advice do you have for people who don't want to drop WITH groups?

I have no problem dropping against a group, fighting against the odds can be quite fun. But fighting with a group on your side, is as fun as a colonoscopy. The victory served to me on a silver tablet. What's the fun in that?

Edit: Replaced "**** probe" with "colonoscopy"

Edited by Valleros, 27 December 2012 - 03:32 PM.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

Am I missing something here...Was there some deleted post I missed about "Pugs" crying today. I scrolled down 6 pages deep searching I saw This and another "pug quit crying" post. Did you just wake up today and say "Dammit I will teach them "pugs" a lesson today" Will this civil war ever end lol. I say once more most "Pugs" are new fledgling players that don't realize that there is a civil war going on here between "premades" and them. Sure some people do complain about it getting stomped...but I read more about the "Boogerman" excuse than I read about geting stomped. Sure all I do is "pug" like a lot of people here do, and from what I have been reading here based on even the information the "Premade" side of the civil war has brought up, I would bet like 2% of the pugs complain here.Some people will use coms most will not...and if the "Boogerman" theory is correct it is prob like 1% of "pugs" come here to whine.

[Riffleman]

Turbo Corvair, on 27 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

This game is about teamwork.... role warfare ya know? You don't have to join a faction or a unit to drop with a team!

Go join a voice comm server. Go to No Guts No Galaxy or some other MWO voice server. I say again, you don't have to join a unit to play in a four man team!

If you choose not to use voice comms that is on you, not PGI.

Go ahead, call me a fanboy and ignore my advice. If you insist on throwing yourself under the bus you don't have anyone to blame but yourself.

OR they could implement a true solo que instead of what we have now which should have been planned from the start. This team based crap excuse has got to go, the MAJORITY play solo, and to try and force the majority to do something for only the benefit of the minority dosent make for a successful product.

[Mechkilla]

You obviously don't have any clue about the problem with pugging. It's not the pugging it is generally the matchmaking mechanism that leads to a bad experience:

• It basically starts with the disconnects. Most disconnects happens before the match is about to begin. I have seen too many games with 2 lost buddies on one side. Either those are farmers or people using a script just to enter a match, disconnect and get into the next one or they have a CTD (I believe the first is the more common).
  
• Then you have the afk player (some with scripts to move the torso and fire in the air). They just farm on a different way.
  
• The next group are those that I call COD-style-players. They are on an ego trip, leave the group and run for a kill or cap. You can contact them nicely via chat and they will ignore you and die 15 seconds later. In this group also falls the really dumb ones that think their ECM-Atlas is invincible (and invisible). Real rookies (the new players ... I avoid the term 'noob' for them) are often turning around and are glad that they got an advice and then stay with the group. They might die fast but everyone has to learn.

This alone often cripples the side, that has the most PUGs in it. And now we bring the premades into the game. I don't want to separate PUGs and premades. A well mixed team on both sides are much more fun than fighting against a horde of cows. PUGs that want to take the next step in this game may need ingame contact with premades not only through forums and trail tests (I have played about 10 matches with 2 other guys and it was fun, but currently my reallife prevents me from teaming up because in the next 1-2 months I can not be planning when I have time to play).

I have played about 1400 matches, followed other people and also give little orders at the start if none was there who could made it better (i'm not a command type). When I died I mostly watched the rest of the game and sometimes give a hint or small advice to new players that made mistakes that I also did when I started with the game (but I was never the 'I-new-it-always-better-then-rest' guy that sometimes appear).
In less than 25 of those 1400 matches a premade group on our side announce themself as one so that the rest (or at least some) would made a wise decision to follow their lead. I know that using the chat in the heat of the fight is nearly impossible but it is often enough just to introduce yourself, say a little bit about strategy and then we can walk towards the enemy. Heck, much more games startet with a nice chat than with a talk between premades and pugs.
But I was very often under the impression the other side has one that was either communication with their pugs or were 2 groups that sync dropped. For that my conclusion has three possibilities:

• the most premades are very selfish and therefore only talk to each other (atm I don't believe this).
  
• there are not much groups playing out there (I don't believe that either)
  
• the matchmaking is quite broken and hates me, hence sending premades to the other side .

I believe in conclusion 3 (without exclusivly hating me ). I have seen too much well coordinates enemies. Together with the disconnecters, afk's and idiots I had to fight very often outnumbered against well opponents and didn't had the fun that I could have with balanced teams. Even then I was often one of the better on the scoreboard (I never quit in such a case).

I don't care much about winning (even if this is always my goal for the team). If the fight was challenging and good, a defeat is always acceptable. But with an unfair start it is quite bitter.

What can PGI do about that? Against farmers and afk players they tried to change it with a different reward system (making damage gives you more money). But I think that doesn't work. They just will need a little bit longer to gain the money they want. PGI has to adress this and check more data. If someone is not making damage, not moving near or around enemies and receives damage in most of the games then he has to be questioned and banned from the system (or punish with cbill/xp loss).
Against idiots? Ok, nothing they can do here ... we have to live with them. But better only one of those in the team then him and 2 farmes.
To prevent the 'problem' with matchmaking with premades they have to tag premades so everyone can see this (through the scoreboard) and they have to balance it versus the skills of the players (I know they are on it).

I know my answer is quite long and seems to go off the road for your question but your initial post shows me that you don't know the PUGs because you are already playing in a team. But out there there are many people that just want to try this game, see that they are liking it and then get pissed off because of the bad balance between premades and PUGs in this game.

I like this game quite much, already spend money to support it and had a lot of fun with pugging. I don't have any problems with ECM and can live with the sloppy netcode. It's beta and therefore it should getting better . But the days before chrismas it was getting really worse. Only 1 out of 4-6 matches was fun the rest were often games that I discribed above. The 18th dec. patch was quite good in my opinion but it attracted to much of the wrong people. I didn't played it since one week because of that and will wait till the matchmaking is much better or have the time to join a group.

But pugging is important for that game. The most people just download the game, try it and depending on their mood and patience they will stay or leave under the impression of pugging. You never know which one of them will get addicted and be a part of the community or will never be seen again (and give bad advertisment to other potent gamers).

Edited by Mechkilla, 27 December 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[siLve00]

trololololo

i love all those "if you dont wana pug" threads.....

you guys are fearing that PGI will change the MM that premades only drop vs premades ?
that would cause to much competition ?

if not...
then help all those lost ppl who dont wana join TS ... or talk to random strangers.... and help them !


THEY WANT PREMADES VS PREMADES + FILLED WITH PUGS !!! NO MORE PUGS VS PREMADES
( grp size doesnt matter ... maybe 2 premades could fit in... like 1/4 of a team.. that should still be not to much influence of gameplay )...


sincerely... some1 who is laughing together with his rl friends on ts about such threads..


edit : oh and btw... we all know... 8men grps are over... muhahah there is allready to much competition
edit2:i dont care if i play vs 4 players or even syncdropped grps... but some ppl will care.. and if they care to much.. "i quit" and MW:O shouldnt lose ppl at all

Edited by siLve00, 27 December 2012 - 04:58 PM.

[Xmith]

Dane Dread, on 27 December 2012 - 12:20 PM, said:

The desire to login and play 2 - 3 matches without going to the overhead of finding a group is a valid play style. It's what I do. It's OK not to be hyper serious about your gameplay. This game caters very well to us "I've got 20 minutes to blow" players.

Come the day I want to sit down and play MWO for hours straight, your advice is good. We'll see if I ever hit that day.

Although I'm not complaining about losing to an organized team. It seems a lot of coordination can be accomplished by paying attention to what your teammates do and a little use of text chat. Personally I suspect the next iteration of the match making will take steps to match us casual players together and put the more serious players together. There is room in MWO for us too. Quit implying we're bad and should leave because we don't play like you.

Agreed

Irvine, on 27 December 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

For some reason this past week i have played better pugging than on TS. Am i the only one who has fun solo pugging!? YES I DID PLAY AGAINST PREMADES! 0.o

I love it

[Psikez]

pfeh NGNG.

[Wired]

Sean von Steinike, on 27 December 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Oh look, the OP sounds like another person trying to feel good about his pugstomping and inflated stats.

Since 8 mans are borked right now, I mostly pug and I agree with the OP. Whats your excuse now?

[Kaspirikay]

Wired, on 27 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Since 8 mans are borked right now, I mostly pug and I agree with the OP. Whats your excuse now?

Youre not telling puggers to stop crying. Unlike the op.

[Wired]

Kaspirikay, on 27 December 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

Youre not telling puggers to stop crying. Unlike the op.

But let's be honest here. Puggers aren't crying. Most of them don't come on here. On the other hand, You have people like the person I replied to. "He's just telling the puggers to stop crying" is just an excuse. And from the looks of the statement made in the OP's message, he's talking to that type of person as well.

Edited by Wired, 27 December 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[mrDUDE]

Turbo Corvair, on 27 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

If you choose not to use voice comms that is on you, not PGI.

Gotta say it's on PGI until they have voice communication built into the game.
You should NOT have to download third party software, set it up, find a server for the game, then find a group just to play this "team game".

A team game should have built in voice communication, it's 2012.

[Wired]

mrDUDE, on 27 December 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

Gotta say it's on PGI until they have voice communication built into the game.
You should NOT have to download third party software, set it up, find a server for the game, then find a group just to play this "team game".

A team game should have built in voice communication, it's 2012.

I agree with this. I'm not sure what sort of testing PGI needs to get this going, but whatever it is they need to communicate to us about this if inadequate testing is the holdup. Otherwise, there is a lot I feel they should of done before open beta in regards to ingame communication. In game voip for those that want to communicate, mute for the spammers, and a radial team message system like you find in many halflife 2 mods and Battlefield.

[Pygar]

mrDUDE, on 27 December 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

A team game should have built in voice communication, it's 2012.

I can kinda see this...but at the same time, your a PC gamer, you should be able to handle downloading teamspeak if not have teamspeak, mumble and vent all downloaded by now.

The truth is, PGI has a lot of other stuff to do in this game, they have their work cut out for them to make an in game chat client that works even just as good as teamspeak (i've seen many other in game voicecomms try and suck at being as good as teamspeak) and it's not that hard to get teamspeak going.

[MrPenguin]

Turbo, what are you doing here?

The forums are a silly place... you'll only regret it.

[Redoxin]

Daekar, on 27 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Solo pugging MUST be viable for the game to succeed. Encouraging people to join on TS3 is fine, but please remember that if the game is successful, MOST players will never use a microphone.

And it is completely viable. I alternate between playing solo and with 4man groups. I win more than I lose in both. People just have a tendency to blame their inevitable losses on 4man groups, while having no idea if they played against one or not.

Also most 4 mans barely coordinate their actions. The main advantage of making groups is simply that these players are usually more dedicated players (yes I avoided "better" here :S) than the average non-grouping player, hence giving them a higher chance of winning. Its not about using teamspeak.

You dont need a mic, you dont even need teamspeak to group up.

Edited by Redoxin, 27 December 2012 - 07:00 PM.

[Glythe]

If you want the solo game experience to be viable you need a solo only queue. But that's just my opinion. Overall I think the biggest matchmaking problems will be solved once we have ELO (assuming it is handled in an intelligent fashion).

[Lykaon]

Daekar, on 27 December 2012 - 12:15 PM, said:

Can I call you a fanboy but still use voice comms?

While I understand where you're coming from (I just spent several lovely hours pugging with the guys on the EU TS3), if your solution is the only one, the game will die a horrible death, and it won't take that long.

Solo pugging MUST be viable for the game to succeed. Encouraging people to join on TS3 is fine, but please remember that if the game is successful, MOST players will never use a microphone.

All this hubbub will be mostly taken care of when Phase 3 matchmaking comes in.

Solo pugging is viable.I do it.

I can however point out what makes solo pugging less viable.

The majority of PUGs are not very good at tactics manuvering or placing shots on target. In essence I find the majority of PUGs to be simply bad.

Is this because this game attracts more unskilled gamers? No.. it's because this game has a massive learning curve and an extremely unforgiving combat system.

We need a training mode for new players.A PVE mode that puts a new player through the paces of piloting a mech.

Premades are made up of players that gennerally belong to the same Merc corp or House unit.They use voice chat and have the benifit of getting training from their more experienced peers.This is why even when soloing in PUGs the players who belong to organized units generally out perform others.

Belonging to an organized unit grants the benefits of this training that simply jumping into the game does not.New players need to have an intergrated training mode to get them up to speed.

[Ebonkosh]

It shouldnt be hard for them to account for ECM in match making for pugs. 8mans should be straight up group vs group and if you dont bring it you didn't want it. More like a ranked game. But to be in a pug drop and have the other team have 4 ecm and you have none and 2 LRM boats is going to 95% of the time = loss. All they need to do is just play pugs for a 3-4 day stretch and they can see for themselves. Sure get in a Voice comm server and the chances to win are better due to focus firing and commands people can hear but I have been in 8mans and not had ECM and still won but its because we identified the ECm mech and took him out fast. For long term success they need to do something. You pros don't need to worry since you always have ecm in your grp or can deal with it. Just imagine being a new guy and using a lrm boat and you can't target anything and then a scout just blows you up. few of those matches and you may just go back to WOW.

Ebonkosh