45 replies to this topic

[Fabian Wrede]

ECM need to be removed untill they either nerf if or get proper counter to its as it is now if you don't have ecm you loose if one team have 2 more ecm than you you loose.

Edited by Wrede, 27 December 2012 - 06:34 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

No don't, I'm leveling my commandos.

But then again, I'll get to play my streakcat again.

[Webber]

No. They just need to add more soft counters to the system, like I mentioned in my beagle active prove thread.

Also, learn to play when you're faced with that challenge. Coordinate. I've seen it done.

[Davers]

I am kinda glad I finished off my LRM Cat and Streak Cat before ECM showed up.

But I have seen LRM boats still doing 1000 damage in a game. So it's not like ECM has removed missiles from the game.

[Kaspirikay]

Davers, on 27 December 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

I am kinda glad I finished off my LRM Cat and Streak Cat before ECM showed up. But I have seen LRM boats still doing 1000 damage in a game. So it's not like ECM has removed missiles from the game.

oh the days where streaks only went for CT lololololololololo

[verybad]

THey should put in some pilot skills like
EW specialist.: Pilots with this skill can see ECM using mechs at 400 Meters, 600 if using BAP, they can get logs on ECM using targets, though getting locks will take twice as long as against non ECM using targets.

They could make pilot skills interesting and usegul in this game, but currently they're boring and useless. You shouldnt' have to get extra mechs to train up some skills, and you shouldn't be able to train them all.

[Davers]

Kaspirikay, on 27 December 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

oh the days where streaks only went for CT lololololololololo

I remember when people were glad to see an A1 streakcat show up when they were surrounded by 200kph Commandos. They didn't call them a cheese build then!

[Zero G BD]

I am not sure any more. I drive a D-DC because of the ECM, but in order to level up I switched out to non ECM Atlas. I named the second one I bought unwanted 2nd and third is redheaded sc. I did this because it annoyed me to have to spend near on to 30 million cbills to be competitive in the one Atlas I wanted. After finding working builds in the other ones I find I do just as well in the non D-DC as I do in it.

This started to lead me to believe that the ECM wasn't as bad as I thought. A simple boost to BAP and I think all would be right in the world. But then...

One map tonight we dropped with 3 non-ECM ravens. Knew right then we were going to killed in that map, they were leveling up their ravens and I was my Atlas. Of course the other team dropped with 2 ravens and a commando with ECM and at least one D-DC. It was an 8-1 destruction of our team. Would upgraded BAP be enough to counter that much ECM coverage? Not so sure any more. I think much of this is going to have to be fixed in the match maker or with new tools plus a nerf to ECM. Maybe allow LOS locks from any range with no target sharing of ECM covered mechs?

I will say that as soon as the other Atlases are done with Elite they are gone and only the D-DC will remain. I guess that says all it has to.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Never trust the Pope...

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 27 December 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

Zero G BD, on 27 December 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

I am not sure any more. I drive a D-DC because of the ECM, but in order to level up I switched out to non ECM Atlas. I named the second one I bought unwanted 2nd and third is redheaded sc. I did this because it annoyed me to have to spend near on to 30 million cbills to be competitive in the one Atlas I wanted. After finding working builds in the other ones I find I do just as well in the non D-DC as I do in it. This started to lead me to believe that the ECM wasn't as bad as I thought. A simple boost to BAP and I think all would be right in the world. But then... One map tonight we dropped with 3 non-ECM ravens. Knew right then we were going to killed in that map, they were leveling up their ravens and I was my Atlas. Of course the other team dropped with 2 ravens and a commando with ECM and at least one D-DC. It was an 8-1 destruction of our team. Would upgraded BAP be enough to counter that much ECM coverage? Not so sure any more. I think much of this is going to have to be fixed in the match maker or with new tools plus a nerf to ECM. Maybe allow LOS locks from any range with no target sharing of ECM covered mechs? I will say that as soon as the other Atlases are done with Elite they are gone and only the D-DC will remain. I guess that says all it has to.

ECM is too good to pass.

[Davers]

Well the Devs said the chassis would be a factor in matchmaking. I am sure the ECM ones will be given a higher cost than non-ECM ones.

[DocBach]

ECM needs to be toned down and other components like Beagle and Narc need to be toned up. ECM should not provide stealth 'Mech ability to an entire team, it should:

-Disrupt Beagle's ability to detect shut down 'Mechs
-Negate the tight groupings of Artemis-enhanced missiles
-Negate the tight groupings of Narc-enhanced missiles, as well as prevent indirect fire on a Narc'd 'Mech without LOS (more on this later)
-Prevent spotters in the ECM bubble from transmitting target data
-Make target ID slower to acquire, but not block locks or targeting completely
-Generate ghost targets - bring up the command map with B in ghost target mode and plot a false radar signal that shows up like a target shrouded by ECM - target-able by R, but no target data available
-Run counter ECM


Beagle should:
-Detect shutdown 'Mechs outside of ECM bubbles
-Negate ECM's target acquisition slowdown while outside the bubble
-Notify the user that they are in the ECM bubble, sort of how we automatically have now with the low signal our sensors would know there is an ECM around, but not know where the actual bubble starts or ends.

Narc should:
-Tighten LRM/SRM grouping on targets in line of sight
-Allow targets marked by Narc to remain targeted even when LOS is lost so LRM attacks can continue indirectly without spotters
-Last for either an extended duration than current or until the location the Narc hit is destroyed

A couple simple changes would make all of the advanced EW equipment viable, while remaining faithful to the source material without being game breaking or overpowering.

Edited by DocBach, 27 December 2012 - 07:19 PM.

[Lykaon]

Kaspirikay, on 27 December 2012 - 06:37 PM, said:

No don't, I'm leveling my commandos.

But then again, I'll get to play my streakcat again.

This sums up the inherent problem we have in mechwarrior online.

ECM warrior or remove ECM and have Streakwarrior.

Until Streaks get properly addressed removing ECM will only bring back streakboating.

Honestly streak boating still happens in premades and on new platforms like Raven 3L and Commando 2D.

I can not even remember seeing a commando 2D without tripple streaks it is like those are permenantly attached to all 2Ds.

With the current game ECM + Streaks is how to win.

With that being said we are essentially down to 3 optimal mech choices and maybe three others that are worth bringing.

Commando 2D :Ecm 3 streaks 1 med laser
Raven 3L : ECM 2 Streaks 3 med lasers
Atlas AS7D-DC : ECM 3 streaks gauss rifle 2 large lasers

Cicada 3M : Ecm loads of medium lasers
Catapult A1: 6 streaks
Stalker 5M: 5 medium lasers 5 streaks

[DocBach]

Streaks can be easily fixed by opening their spread up greatly to where they rarely both hit the same location, and can hit anywhere instead of just the torso like they do now, unless they're fired so up where they don't have time to open up - and then they should hit wherever the reticule was aiming.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Wrede, on 27 December 2012 - 06:34 PM, said:

ECM need to be removed untill they either nerf if or get proper counter to its as it is now if you don't have ecm you loose if one team have 2 more ecm than you you loose.

As nice as it would be for them to yank the ECM until it actually had good balance, that just isn't going to happen. Unfortunately, we're just stuck with this PoS until they get around to doing something about it.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Lykaon, on 27 December 2012 - 07:22 PM, said:

This sums up the inherent problem we have in mechwarrior online.

ECM warrior or remove ECM and have Streakwarrior.

Until Streaks get properly addressed removing ECM will only bring back streakboating.

Honestly streak boating still happens in premades and on new platforms like Raven 3L and Commando 2D.

I can not even remember seeing a commando 2D without tripple streaks it is like those are permenantly attached to all 2Ds.

With the current game ECM + Streaks is how to win.

With that being said we are essentially down to 3 optimal mech choices and maybe three others that are worth bringing.

Commando 2D :Ecm 3 streaks 1 med laser
Raven 3L : ECM 2 Streaks 3 med lasers
Atlas AS7D-DC : ECM 3 streaks gauss rifle 2 large lasers

Cicada 3M : Ecm loads of medium lasers
Catapult A1: 6 streaks
Stalker 5M: 5 medium lasers 5 streaks

Streaks aren't an issue. They've been in the game a LONG time. The mechs that can sport a number of them, like Streak Cats are isolated and destroyed fairly quickly if playing with a team.

In short, if you see a Cat making a B-Line for you, you can be sure that it's a Cat with some form of short range nasty.

If you let PGI change your diapers all the time an baby you, you'll be missing a part of the game which is essential.

Thinking.

Initiative.

Intuition.


I've giving them too much faith saying this, but maybe they jammed as much as they could into ECM to future test features they'd be using in other systems not fully done.

I doubt it though.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 27 December 2012 - 07:30 PM.

[Stavinsky Elyas]

DocBach, on 27 December 2012 - 07:23 PM, said:

Streaks can be easily fixed by opening their spread up greatly to where they rarely both hit the same location, and can hit anywhere instead of just the torso like they do now, unless they're fired so up where they don't have time to open up - and then they should hit wherever the reticule was aiming.

Streak can also be corrected by having the AMS shoot down some of them, the way it is supposed to work
not how it "don't work" actually.

Another way to correct the Streak, as they are supposed to be 'interlocked' would be to prevent them
being locked at more than 270m, and have the target lock cleared once the shoot is done.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Stavinsky Elyas, on 27 December 2012 - 07:30 PM, said:

Streak can also be corrected by having the AMS shoot down some of them, the way it is supposed to work
not how it "don't work" actually.

Another way to correct the Streak, as they are supposed to be 'interlocked' would be to prevent them
being locked at more than 270m, and have the target lock cleared once the shoot is done.

I think the target lock thing is a bit much.

I would imagine it is your mechs targeting computer doing the locking on, not the weapon itself.

Streaks are meant to be quick short range harassers and they do that job well. You aren't blasting people with Alphas to make them think twice about fighting you.

I think a small range reduction would be fine, but you'd think a guided locked on missile would fire further than what is essentially a dummy missile.

Edited by PANZERBUNNY, 27 December 2012 - 07:34 PM.

[Zero G BD]

PANZERBUNNY, on 27 December 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Streaks aren't an issue. They've been in the game a LONG time. The mechs that can sport a number of them, like Streak Cats are isolated and destroyed fairly quickly if playing with a team.

BS. The streaks are broken and they need some spread and to hit anywhere other then CT. I agree about streak cats or SRM cats etc because of their crap 270M range I have them de-eared before they get close. That doesn't change the BS that is mini mechs coring assaults because of constant CT shots from so far off angle that they are doing a 90 degree turn out of the launchers.

[DocBach]

Streaks need to be fixed in their own right, ECM shouldn't be a bandaid to hide the symptoms of a whole bunch of other equipment systems being unbalanced and not working properly.