46 replies to this topic

[KuruptU4Fun]

While I'm sure we are all aware of the advantages that the Mechs used by the clans are, should they be allowed to become the dominating force once they arrive. Should changing from a IS merc to a Clan brother come with disadvantages as well?

I think that having a negative balance of Xp for new sibko pilots should be considered, allowing for the more experienced IS pilots to have an upper hand. Would this be present already with Clan members starting from 0xp, but is that really enough?

Maybe some other people could suggest some starting disadvantages as well...

[Adridos]

Well, they have to fight honorably and that means it could look like in MW 2, where you had to take out as many opponents in Trials as possible to get honour and good mechs. Otherwise, they'll be stuck with old junk.

[wwiiogre]

Enforce clan batchalls, enforce clan honor, start new clan members as garrison units that have to work upto omni mechs. Then when they have reached the threshhold. Enforce a test, then the Clan pilot will face five other mech pilots, how many mechs they kill will determine what their initial rank is and what size omni mech they get to start with.

simple, clanlike, and above all they have to work for it and skill is rewarded.

Chris

[neodym]

Is should be able to instal Clan tech and get competitive technologicaly


like I dont always use Clan tech,IS tech many times provide better dmg/heat ratio

[Felicitatem Parco]

Well, starting as a Clanner means you have no birth parents, childhood fun, permission to think for yourself, nor any feelings of self-worth beyond serving as a commander's petty tool, and you are deeply-hated by many billions of people. Those are some significant disadvantages.

Also, all the parts for your weapons/Mechs are made back in the Kerensky Cluster so replacements will be hard to come by.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 14 May 2012 - 08:09 AM.

[wwiiogre]

it only takes the IS people 10 years to figure how to install clan tech into IS mechs, but they make their own versions of omni much sooner than that. We don't need stinking clan tech to beat clan mechs. It is all about skill and using clan honor against them as well as batchalls against them.

chris

[Walter Soebchak]

The Clans used a bidding system where they bid down to the lowest amount of units necessary for a battle. So, this could mean that units would put in bids and the lowest bid would get the battle. It would be similar to a contract bidding system, but instead be used to gain honor points. Also, this would give the Inner Sphere units an advantage in numbers most of the time because the clan units would be entering the field in reduced numbers.

[Gigaton]

neodym, on 14 May 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Is should be able to instal Clan tech and get competitive technologicaly

And we should be able to to field clan 'mechs too. After every IS jock has gotten a salvaged clan 'mech, delete all IS 'mechs from the game (nobody uses that outdated trash by that point anymore) and start new IS pilots in clan 'mechs of their choise for free.

But really, IS should have IS stuff only and fight in the IS way, Clans should have Clan stuff only and fight in the Clan way. Being able to get the best of both worlds kinda kills it. I know it happens in the fluff as early as Battle of Luthien for example (Teddy piloted a Masakari there) and by Bulldog few elite IS formations had Clan tech in significant scale, but I don't think it should happen in an MMO.

Edited by Gigaton, 14 May 2012 - 08:21 AM.

[CoffiNail]

Clan forces are limited to 10 players, Clans are highly suggested to fight one on one with their opponents possibly through a bonus. Clans have no use of artillery or airstrikes.

[AlanEsh]

CoffiNail, on 14 May 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

Clan forces are limited to 10 players, Clans are highly suggested to fight one on one with their opponents possibly through a bonus. Clans have no use of artillery or airstrikes.

10 on 12 isn't much of a disadvantage, but the artillery and airstrike thing is something I'd totally forgotten about. That aspect could be tweaked enough to take away a lot of the Clan's tech advantages.

[Garth Erlam]

I'd say the massively expensive 'Mechs and parts are one drawback

Any suggestions? (IE. Post them on the suggestions forum ;D)

[Rear Admiral]

To me, the main disadvantage to being the clans, and the sole reason the IS was able to defeat them, was their rigid honor code. Without that bit of fluff - which was added by the BT devs so that the IS would stand ANY chance at all against them - the IS would be doomed.

So, how to simulate that in a video game where clan players mostly have no honor, or maybe arent even aware that they're supposed to abide by zellbrigen? As I've pondered this question the last few weeks, i think the simplest solution is a penalty to the clan players c-bill(or honor influence points, or wahtever currency they will use) when they dont abide by zellbrigen. For instance, my thor jumps over the hill, sees a hunchback and opens up on him. He is now my designated zellbrigen honor opponent, and if i fire on another enemy, i get a big -5000 honor pts/cbills/whatever for doing that. If i continue firing at another target thats not my designated opponent, the penalties will stack up so much that i cant afford to repair my mech, let alone get another. Simple, and elegent. Popular? that is another question...

And: IS should NOT have access to clan tech. Period.

[Nighthound]

There are a lot of things to balance things up a bit .... I actually had some Ideas to that.

Clans would need to bid on the "honor" of attacking. Maybe similar to Mercs, but just not for reduced C-Bills but reduced force (fewer Mechs win). (as stated before)
Clans can field maximum 10 Mechs (giving IS a 20% advantage). (also stated)
Clans can't use indirect fire of any kind, so no indirect fire LRMs or Artillery strikes or stuff like that. (kinda stated)

Holding trials is a bit impractical IMHO, because it would need an IA or special moderators to hold these.
Instead I would use the House Prestigue Point System but call it Honor Points, otherwise they work the same.

Clans would need to fight one on one (at least until Tukayyid). This one is tricky as it would be up to the player to enforce this on himself, but I had an Idea to that as well :

Wenn a fight starts, all Mechs have Green indicators (like those of your own team - indicators are the little red arrows seen in the vids).
If a Clan player shoots at an enemy Mech for the first time, or is beeing shot at for the first time by an enemy, this indicator would turn red for that player and blue for his teammates, while all other enemy Mechs would turn blue for him. If he would now shoot at a blue Mech he would loose some honor points (amount to be determined by damage done) if he continues to fire at blue Mechs he will loose Points in the long run and thus never be able to advance in rank.
After Tukayyid, or a little before that some Clans (CJF and CW) started to adapt to that tacatic. So, if a IS player starts shooting at other Clan Mechs then the one who is fighting him or the 11th and 12th IS Player jump in ahead of time, it could be that this Player would become red for all Clan Players, if the offense (=damage done) is great enough.
Late in the War most Clans would addapt their tactics further, maybe all IS Mechs are red from the get go, or all turn red at the slightest rule breaking.



Otherwise I don't think to much balance is a good Idea, there still needs to be that feeling of dread when the Clans arrive.
I would have to search for it but there is already an old thread about Clans in which I suggested Gamemodes that CAN be won by IS but are designed so that the Clans actually always win .... e.g. "flee the Planet"



Edit : D*** beaten to the Punch again -.-

Edited by Nighthound, 14 May 2012 - 08:49 AM.

[Jonas]

It didn't take 10 years to figure out how to mount Clan tech to Inner sphere Mechs. It did take a while before there was a lot of it to go around.

There is plenty of Mechwarriors in the Inner sphere that used captured Clan weapons on there Mechs. I forget which novel but some one said it way cheaper to fit Clan weapons on Inner sphere Chassis than to maintain the Clan Chassis.

Now back to disadvantages, IS forces are 4 Mechs to a lance 3 lances to company. Clan forces are 1 mech is a point 5 points to a star 2 stars to a Binary. So force limits on how many Clan Mech get put in to a match. Remember if more than one clan mech gets targeted by an inner sphere then the whole one on one goes out the window.

Edited by Jonas, 14 May 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[Odanan]

Garth Erlam, on 14 May 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I'd say the massively expensive 'Mechs and parts are one drawback

That would be enough.

But as the clans in battle are organized in Stars (of 5 mechs each), having only 2 stars in a match (against 3 IS lances) would be interesting. I hope there won't be mixed IS&Clans teams in MWO (like in WOT, where the country means nothing).

[Walter Soebchak]

Also, the clans cleaned the IS clock all the way to Tukayyid. So, lore purists might not want their to be a disadvantage.

[CoffiNail]

Nighthound, on 14 May 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Wenn a fight starts, all Mechs have Green indicators (like those of your own team - indicators are the little red arrows seen in the vids).
If a Clan player shoots at an enemy Mech for the first time, or is beeing shot at for the first time by an enemy, this indicator would turn red for that player and blue for his teammates, while all other enemy Mechs would turn blue for him. If he would now shoot at a blue Mech he would loose some honor points (amount to be determined by damage done) if he continues to fire at blue Mechs he will loose Points in the long run and thus never be able to advance in rank.

Early in November last year in the Clans section, I suggested a Claim target button. Where you select your target and claim it, which would basically do what you suggested, ID the target as claimed for Zell and not to fire upon it.

[Nighthound]

Garth Erlam, on 14 May 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

I'd say the massively expensive 'Mechs and parts are one drawback

Any suggestions? (IE. Post them on the suggestions forum ;D)

I'll take you up on that one

[Nighthound]

CoffiNail, on 14 May 2012 - 08:50 AM, said:

Early in November last year in the Clans section, I suggested a Claim target button. Where you select your target and claim it, which would basically do what you suggested, ID the target as claimed for Zell and not to fire upon it.

Would that button be located in the Drop Room or in Game? Because in the Drop Room this would only work for the first round of fights, after all there is a chance that some IS pilots win their duels.

PS.: Kind of a dumb question .... I bet you thought of that

[CoffiNail]

Nighthound, on 14 May 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

Would that button be located in the Drop Room or in Game? Because in the Drop Room this would only work for the first round of fights, after all there is a chance that some IS pilots win their duels.

PS.: Kind of a dumb question .... I bet you thought of that

in game of course. You target the mech you want and hit the claim target button. That target is set as yours, and ID'd as taken over the radar/ingame arrow over mech system.

Yeah some IS will win fights. I think a lot of people think the Clans steamrolled and took almost no loses. Yet IS did win fights, rarely 1v1 fights, iirc the Combine commanders had to tell their MW in the DCMS to not accept the honor duels, as they almost always lost.