533 replies to this topic

[Krondor]

Felix, on 29 December 2012 - 07:34 AM, said:

they were too busy being ******** and pug stomping

According to Vassago, premades suck and don't really know how to play.

[Glory in the Highest]

"Boring" is the #1 euphemism for "I just got handed my face."

Maybe the game does need some adjustments - well, of course it does. Invisibility cloak is probably too kablammo right now, and machine guns are way underpowered. How fun can the game be without MG Ravens? But I digress.

Srsly, if they would just give us lobbies, we would happily give the twisty slide and swing-set back.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

When I say boring it has nothing to do with winning or losing. If you could see my stats you'd tell real quickly that losing doesn't bother me.

To me the current 8v8 is boring because it feels very limiting. If you DON'T have 4-5 Atlas and 2-3 Ravens and a Gausscat or 2 then you have very little chance of winning or even being competitive. That has nothing to do with individual or even team skill and everything to do with min/maxing in the mechlab. That is what is boring to me, knowing that if I want to compete in this game mode I am FORCED to take one of 2-3 mechs to be even have a chance.

I was hoping Conquest would be the alternative that would break that cycle but it turned out that everybody just ignores the caps and continues with the Atlas deathball same as Assault.

I would rather be in a straight PUG match with no teammates or voice comms. It's at least more interesting and I can take a Hunchback or Dragon and not get annihilated by the rolling Atlasball.

[Krondor]

Skwisgaar Skwigelf, on 29 December 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

When I say boring it has nothing to do with winning or losing. If you could see my stats you'd tell real quickly that losing doesn't bother me.

To me the current 8v8 is boring because it feels very limiting. If you DON'T have 4-5 Atlas and 2-3 Ravens and a Gausscat or 2 then you have very little chance of winning or even being competitive. That has nothing to do with individual or even team skill and everything to do with min/maxing in the mechlab. That is what is boring to me, knowing that if I want to compete in this game mode I am FORCED to take one of 2-3 mechs to be even have a chance.

I was hoping Conquest would be the alternative that would break that cycle but it turned out that everybody just ignores the caps and continues with the Atlas deathball same as Assault.

I would rather be in a straight PUG match with no teammates or voice comms. It's at least more interesting and I can take a Hunchback or Dragon and not get annihilated by the rolling Atlasball.

This is the point I've been trying to make. The current game setup with ECM has made medium and heavy mechs completely useless. Nobody bothers running any lights except a Raven 3L because there's no point, and with zero reason to run meds and heavies, the only thing left is ECM'd atlas. You will occasionally find another mech, but it's almost always a gauess or srm kitty. The only mech that seems to change it up a bit is an LRM boat Stalker, which is still dubious because the other team is guaranteed to have at least 6 ECM'd mechs, so you're running a risk taking that much tonnage which may be of very limited use (and no, everyone taking TAG is NOT a counter). An ECM'd Atlas is significantly more useful.

The game literally becomes a rock-paper-scissors of who has more ECM. That is almost without exception the sole thing determining the victor. On the rare occasions it isn't, it comes down to which team gets impatient first and engages the other, and then you're in a close range brawl. No tactics. No variety. If you're not running ECM you don't stand a chance.

90% of the 8v8 games are exactly this. It is BORING. The 10% that aren't are the fun ones where you encounter a team that didn't decide to min/max Ravens and Atlas DC's.

While I'm still on the fence with ECM (I happen to think it works fine in 4-man games -I actually don't run a single mech with ECM), the current bleh state of 8-man games can be directly blamed on it.

Edited by Krondor, 29 December 2012 - 09:35 AM.

[Broceratops]

The irony is that based on the amount of ravens and DDCs, the same people saying they don't play 8 mans because of all the DDCs and Ravens turn around and use DDCs and Ravens on pugs. Main difference is their DDC builds are terrible.

Edited by Broceratops, 29 December 2012 - 09:29 AM.

[Choombatta]

Quite funny!
Playing in 8 vs. 8 are boring.
But sync dropping with 8 to roll PUG groups is somehow a lot of fun?!?!?!

If A is true, than B would be even more boring for you.

If A is false, than B would still be even more boring for you.

If all you care about is stats, than B is the way to go.

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

I don't particularly care for sync-dropping 4mans either. In fact I haven't even tried it.

What is most fun for me is my 4man with 4 pugs against another 4man with 4 pugs. You have some coordination and tactical choices but there is always that random factor as to whether or not your pugs are willing or able to help, and same with the other team. You got more varied mech choices, more options on how you can address the match, and no guarantee whatsoever that you're going to win.

[Krondor]

Choombatta, on 29 December 2012 - 09:36 AM, said:

Quite funny!
Playing in 8 vs. 8 are boring.
But sync dropping with 8 to roll PUG groups is somehow a lot of fun?!?!?!

If A is true, than B would be even more boring for you.

If A is false, than B would still be even more boring for you.

If all you care about is stats, than B is the way to go.

1) Sync drops are a lot more rare than puggers think they are.
2) I don't sync drop, neither does anyone else in my guild.

If puggers get rolled they always cry premade syncdrop. I've rolled teams 8-0 grouped with 1 dude, and the rest all PUGs that we coordinated with.

I think I've encountered maybe 5 sync drop teams? Can't remember. Not as many as some of you cry about. One advantage to playing in 8-man teams is you get pretty good at seeing when you're playing against one in a 4-man game.

Edited by Krondor, 29 December 2012 - 09:49 AM.

[Red squirrel]

Kaspirikay, on 28 December 2012 - 05:45 AM, said:

The rest were too busy telling pugs to stop crying about premades.

lol

[Thorqemada]

I start to believe if we get also
Incomming Laser
Incomming Ballistic
the game will probably end up playing Mechs equipped with Flamers...oh well...
Incomming Flamer
...
Incomming Bancruptcy

Edited by Thorqemada, 29 December 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

zenstrata, on 29 December 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Getting exactly 8 people together for extended gaming is very difficult. You have to wait around a lot as people do bathroom breaks, have to take care of kids, get food, etc. People also have different schedules, not everyone can be around at exactly the same time to play. So when you finally get 8 people going, you maybe only get 3 games (or 4 if you are lucky!) per hour. This means it is more efficient and fun to just play 4 man groups because people can hop out or in whenever they want without completely screwing the team.

This is also because 8 man teams are now incredibly competitive. So you can't drop with just 6 or 7 and expect to be able to be effective because missing gaps are not filled with other players. You have to be dropping with exactly 8 people, you all must be in the right type of mechs, usually these days everyone must have ECM because you know that every other team out there will have at least 4 ECM mechs - or more usually 6 or even a full 8 ecm mechs.

8 man groups work well in theory, but have not held up in real life due to the above issues (and the other things people have mentioned in this thread).

It's never been a problem in any other game.
If it is, why don't you take your own advice? Get on the teamspeak and pull some more people. It's easy. Takes no time at all. You're just being lazy.

Right?

[SpiralRazor]

Getting 8 players isnt a big hurdle Trollago, but getting 8 players that have the required mechs and skills is mostly impossible for anyone thats not in a big house or merc unit.

[Bishop Steiner]

Eagle Furey, on 28 December 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

When you have both teams working closely together things happen quickly and battles do not get needlessly drawn out like it can in pug matches. 7 to 8 minute battles are not out of the ordinary.

If it gets into a slaughter, I tend to find matches go sub 4 minutes. 5-7 seem to be good for close, hard fought assualt matches, with only Conquest usually taking much longer, and TBH, since it has been introduced, I can only think of 2 matches that have ended through "Conquest", which one could take to mean conquest has failed.... but when you compare that to the 1 in 4 or so that end by cap in Assault, it actually means the "resource" driven mode is more likely to be the scrap til death fight than the "Deathmatch" Assault, because Conquest takes sooooo much longer than capping does.

I would say that even with dumbassery and real life getting in the way, that any group that isn't squeezing 6 matches + an hour is either really just playing kinda chill, or are way too disorganized to stand up against another 8 man premade.

We usually hit drop as soon as our mechs unlock, with an occasional 2 minute bio break/pilot/mechlab visit.

[Sean von Steinike]

SpiralRazor, on 29 December 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

Getting 8 players isnt a big hurdle Trollago, but getting 8 players that have the required mechs and skills is mostly impossible for anyone thats not in a big house or merc unit.

Required? Since when is there a requirement to field any sort of mech or have any degree of skill? What, afraid of losing and harming your stats? -snorts-

[Bishop Steiner]

Thirdstar, on 29 December 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

Is it wrong that I'm sitting in this thread with a teeny tiny smile. watching 4man and 8man teams eviscerate each other?

Actually that might be one of the very few things I agree with you on. The idiocy of the bickering is entertaining in the same way train wreck reality shows are. Well, that and watching Vassago flex and blow kisses to himself in the mirror. His self love is so over the top it's hilarious.

[Vassago Rain]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Actually that might be one of the very few things I agree with you on. The idiocy of the bickering is entertaining in the same way train wreck reality shows are. Well, that and watching Vassago flex and blow kisses to himself in the mirror. His self love is so over the top it's hilarious.

I'm the Hulk Hogan of MWO, and just like Hulk Hogan, I'm loved and famed for the flexing, antics, and making up terms and words as I see fit.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alexandrix, on 29 December 2012 - 02:00 AM, said:

The best part about it is the cries of 8 man being full cheese mode ecmfest atlas/raven.Then the same people turn around and spam ecm/tag scouts with assault LRM boats on pugs.But i guess that's ok as long as they are the one's doing the stomping and running the "cheese mode".

Wouldn't know. I dislike ECM8Man Online for the most part, because it means that more than likely, you have to build a "counter-team" which really limits your choice of chassis. I like driving Cents and Dragons and stuff. They are fun. But when you get into 8 man groups, and people put on their "Serious Gamer Whiskey Warlord Faces", and say, don't bring the mech you are working on, only bring your BEST MECH RARRRRRR! it induces eye rolling, followed by boredom.

And since I don't have a single mech currently with ECM (Might have to get a DDC to finish up my Atlas tree though.. I hate the 7k), and have exactly one mech that runs LRMs or TAG out of 14, gotta say don't remotely fit the role your are describing there, princess.

Now if my Pug Dropped DakkaPhract, Centy or Dragon scares you so much you have to make up the Sync Drop boogey man to explain your losses, well, might I suggest counseling?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 29 December 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[Vessiel]

A lot of people complains that 8v8 is boring due to the spam of ecm mech and return to the 4man mode, but here is the funny thing! There are almost 2/5 of the 4man running the same combo of the 8v8, only cut down to 4man standard! For example, i saw a lot of premade with 3 or 4 ecm light, usually 3 raven and a commando o cicada; or 3 atlas d-dc and a raven.. or 2 atlas, a raven an a random good mech (no awesome, raven 2x,4x, cent, etc)....

[Sean von Steinike]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2012 - 11:04 AM, said:

But when you get into 8 man groups, and people put on their "Serious Gamer Whiskey Warlord Faces", and say, don't bring the mech you are working on, only bring your BEST MECH RARRRRRR! it induces eye rolling, followed by boredom.

Groups like this are lame. Why would anyone want to belong to a group of dicks?

[Bishop Steiner]

Krondor, on 29 December 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Because. It's. F--king. Boring.

Playing against the exact same composition of opponents time after time after time makes for an incredibly dull and repetitive game.

Also Vassago, you're really funny. You'll cry about premades stomping in PUG games, and then turn right around and go on about how premades all suck and are easy to route.

In case you haven't noticed, Vassago, and a goodly number of Kongs, apparently are very into themselves... so much so in fact, that when they think about themselves.. they touch themselves. They are actually very entertaining to watch self aggrandize. And on a good day they are ALMOST as good as they think.