533 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

The biggest reason I don't do 8 mans is because it's just so slow. The matches are slow, and someone always has some **** to do between every match. Every other match you need to find another 8 man. It just isn't worth the effort when I could just do a 4 and launch launch launch!

[IIIuminaughty]

I live for 8v8 but lately my squad only been having 4-6 players on....gotta have 8 =(

[Thirdstar]

Roland, on 30 December 2012 - 07:37 PM, said:

PGI actually has server stats, which show how often premades are being paired against pure pugs.

It's not just "some experience Garth had once."

And, if I recall, they presented those stats here a while back, and they showed that the issue was not nearly the problem that some folks here claim it to be.

If these stats were common knowledge would it had not been saved for posterity by the more serious posters on the forum? I shall add to the calls for producing this link/stats. AFAIK, people have always been referring to Garth's (Mr. I cored an Atlas with a Jenner in 3 seconds) incredibly unscientific, undersampled stats.

Of course PGI actually have stats, I hope so anyway, but they have yet to actually publish much in the way of tracked stats. Just about every other MOG does though.

Edited by Thirdstar, 30 December 2012 - 09:13 PM.

[Barnaby Jones]

Thirdstar, on 30 December 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

If these stats were common knowledge would it had not been saved for posterity by the more serious posters on the forum? I shall add to the calls for producing this link/stats. AFAIK, people have always been referring to Garth's (Mr. I cored an Atlas with a Jenner in 3 seconds) incredibly unscientific, undersampled stats.

Of course PGI actually have stats, I hope so anyway, but they have yet to actually publish much in the way of tracked stats. Just about every other MOG does though.

so were going back to the "garth, the dev, is lying about stuff" because his statement that

'We are taking steps to fix this (Phase 1 will be soon, in fact) but a lot of this is player perception."

can't possibly be closer to the truth than the "Premades are everywhere" ******** being spouted by a very loud and very small group of individuals here on the forum.

[UnseenFury]

neviu, on 28 December 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

8 man, are ruled by ecm,

and lots of hackers these days,

What hackers? Cheaters? Aimbotters? Wallhackers? Haven't seen a single in my 2000 kills playing since July.

[Redacted]

Edited by Niko Snow, 31 December 2012 - 11:39 AM.
Code of Conduct: Vulgar Language

[Thirdstar]

Barnaby Jones, on 30 December 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

so were going back to the "garth, the dev, is lying about stuff" because his statement that
'We are taking steps to fix this (Phase 1 will be soon, in fact) but a lot of this is player perception."
can't possibly be closer to the truth than the "Premades are everywhere" ******** being spouted by a very loud and very small group of individuals here on the forum.

Come on Barnaby you're usually much more on the ball than this.

Garth is not a Dev, he's a Community Manager. One with a history of making less than factual statements on the forums and sometimes making quite trollerfic statements as well.

"but lot of this is player perception" is too vague a statement to make ANY conclusions from. How much is a lot? What exactly is the perception he's talking about? etc etc.

My personal stance has always been that no premades are not EVERYWHERE, however, they are present enough to effect gameplay. Most posters have made this point not that they're EVERYWHERE. Every critic isn't SIXSIXSIX.

Paran01ac, on 30 December 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

on your 8 years old cuntsolol. PC gaming costs thousands of dollars and full of cheaters! LMAO.

You are very very juvenile.

[shintakie]

Barnaby Jones, on 30 December 2012 - 09:47 PM, said:

so were going back to the "garth, the dev, is lying about stuff" because his statement that

'We are taking steps to fix this (Phase 1 will be soon, in fact) but a lot of this is player perception."

can't possibly be closer to the truth than the "Premades are everywhere" ******** being spouted by a very loud and very small group of individuals here on the forum.

So you took a vague statement and are now usin it as a basis of fact when it is really just a vague statement. You know what would have shut all this up, much like how you don't see so many TK threads all that often anymore? Actual honest to goodness statistics from the servers themselves and not from one players single night of drops.

[Jack Spade Ward]

My team did twice 8v8, we simply got hammerd. We had 1 Atlas DC, 1 Awsome 9M, 2 Cats K2 / C1, 2 Catas 1X / 3D, and 2 Ravens ECM.
Guess what we saw, 6 Atlas DC and 2 Ravens.... it made me laugh... How can you compete in a 8v8 if the team you're competing always got a fit like that? Thats why we never did 8v8 again, and if this continues, we probably never will.

For me, the solution comes from the formers MechWarrior games: weight limit! Put a diferent weight limit every match! For example, 400T, that way, you know that for 8 players to go in, they had to take no more than 50T mech into the battle. If anyone wanted to take something more, like an Atlas, that would be a 8v7 match, and so on.
Another solution would be two 4 premade teams.

Otherwise, the 8v8 will die, probaly...

[Barnaby Jones]

Thirdstar, on 30 December 2012 - 10:05 PM, said:

Come on Barnaby you're usually much more on the ball than this.

Garth is not a Dev, he's a Community Manager. One with a history of making less than factual statements on the forums and sometimes making quite trollerfic statements as well.

"but lot of this is player perception" is too vague a statement to make ANY conclusions from. How much is a lot? What exactly is the perception he's talking about? etc etc.

My personal stance has always been that no premades are not EVERYWHERE, however, they are present enough to effect gameplay. Most posters have made this point not that they're EVERYWHERE. Every critic isn't SIXSIXSIX.

hehe, you are right there. To be fair, I think I have the flu: what I meant to say is "Garth and the devs, are lying."



What "fact" am I pushing Shin? If you take a look at most of my posts, you will see I don't usually make claims. A majority of my posts are countering the "facts" posted by others, usually by pointing out their "facts", aren't. So again, I ask, what fact am I promoting here?

[Truthstar]

8v8 are thin these days bc not many Units are dropping. Why? Look at the state of these new, improved patches. LRMs buff to insaneland, ECM, DHS nerfed(to counter light armor being too OP) and a total failure with proper MM.
There are acouple thousand players. 8v8 isn't cutting it...drops should have a 4v4 option until the community is more solid. Phase 2 was destined to be a failure without any sort of class limitations. It isnt competitive to drop vs Atlas'/Ravens..its just dumb and boring.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Admittedly, there isn't enough valid roles out there...we do dedicated, several hours of 8 man drops every Wed/Fri night for practices.....and there's basically 5-6 slots filled with DDC and 3L every time. While the tactics are fun to practice and the matches can be great....people find the lack of other roles being utilized fairly boring. Say what you will but when your drop team has basically 4 specified platforms in order to be competitive, people just don't find that all that fun after a few drops.

[shintakie]

Barnaby Jones, on 30 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

hehe, you are right there. To be fair, I think I have the flu: what I meant to say is "Garth and the devs, are lying."



What "fact" am I pushing Shin? If you take a look at most of my posts, you will see I don't usually make claims. A majority of my posts are countering the "facts" posted by others, usually by pointing out their "facts", aren't. So again, I ask, what fact am I promoting here?

Thats an interestin question to ask actually. Based off the language of this post I'd assume you're tryin to counter some "fact" that I spouted off in this thread, however the only fact I've said is that PGI hasn't bothered to actually give us any statistical facts about premades vs pugs other than a statistically irrelevant one from Garth about what happened to him one night.

I've never once claimed Garth was lyin when it came to premades vs pugs because he's only ever said what happened to him once and the line about it havin a lot to do with player perception. I'm not even inclined to believe they're hidin anythin by not postin the numbers like he said he would. I do find it odd that they were so willin to post the TK numbers to mostly end those posts once and for all but don't feel the need to do so for what has been a much more discussed topic since way back in closed beta.

However, if you want an actual answer to your question then here you go. The fact you are tryin to push is that the problem of pugs vs premades are heavily exagerated due to two posts that Garth made (order is probably wrong here), The first bein what happened to him one night when he pugged, the other sayin that a large part of the problem was player perception. The first part is irrelavent to the topic at hand because it is simply one anecdotal piece of evidence among a sea of anecdotal pieces of evidence. The second would be more tellin if there was actual context to it. Unfortunately there isn't. He doesn't elaborate on what that meant. He doesn't prove its actually a matter of perception with the actual numbers. Its entirely possible that the line about it bein player perception was just that, player perception as in his perception of events based off his own experiences.

Again, the only fact we have when it comes to premade vs pugs is that it happens. The frequency of it happenin is unknown and the only evidence we have of how much it does happen is anecdotal. Until we get clear facts its not clear which side is right and which side is wrong.

[Yokaiko]

Truthstar, on 30 December 2012 - 11:10 PM, said:

8v8 are thin these days bc not many Units are dropping. Why? Look at the state of these new, improved patches. LRMs buff to insaneland, ECM, DHS nerfed(to counter light armor being too OP) and a total failure with proper MM.
There are acouple thousand players. 8v8 isn't cutting it...drops should have a 4v4 option until the community is more solid. Phase 2 was destined to be a failure without any sort of class limitations. It isnt competitive to drop vs Atlas'/Ravens..its just dumb and boring.

The lack of class limitations is fine, it just needs a weight limit.....and a relatively restrictive one 400 maybe 450 tons. Watch the grips in pigs, no one is driving mediums, maybe a couple lights, heavies and assaults mostly.

[idle crow]

Seemed a little difficult to sync drop with SJ tonight. Not sure if when more teams que it was easier or even harder.

Could not agree more with what others posted. We need a lobby.

[BoomDog]

Barnaby Jones, on 30 December 2012 - 11:25 AM, said:

It isnt a fact, and (based on the ONLY FACTUAL INFO we have) its not as common as puggnation would have you believe.

It isn't a fact? What? Four mans are pugstomping. There's a few honest 4 man players that admit that they pugstomp. There's no debate on that.

It's not as common as pugs think it is, ok, I can't argue for or against that, because I don't know. The thing is, you don't know either. You keep insisting on using factual information, then you make claims pulled out of thin air.

The issue here is that 4 mans allowed in pug matches= EZ-Mode.

[Yokaiko]

Nothing stopping solo droppers from grouping up.

[QuantumButler]

Oh wow I'm so proud to be remembered by people! Apparently I consider myself god king of MWO or something? This is news to me but whatever.

[Tasorin]

Glory, on 28 December 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

I think what we all expected to happen has happened - the 8v8s are underpopulated because they are too hard for most. As much as people say they'd rather have fun than win, you don't see those same people staying in a situation where they lose more often than not. There's been a big return to the 4-man max because people like to feel like they have a fighting chance, while crying for their opponents to handicap themselves.

The reason the DDC/3L combo is used so much is because it works. Some teams are here to play to win, and the tears of "dishonorable", "cheese", "unfair", "no-skill", "hacker", and "exploiter" are just fuel for the fire. There will always be a cheese combo, no matter what is changed. It is impossible to fully balance the top end of a game - any game. Anyone with experience in high level FPS, fighting games, etc knows this. In our case, In The Beginning, it was Slasback. Then it was Laser K2. Then it was Gausscat. Now it's ECM Joy. Tomorrow, for all I know, it'll be Dragons.

I guess what I'm saying is the reason 8mans are underpopulated is not the ECM combo, but rather the attitude of most gamers. "How dare you beat me with superior tactics and loadouts, even though they're available to me, too. Fight like a man. Take off ECM so I can kill you."

Right up to the point where a team steps into a formatted bracket match and the cheese factor is set and known before the drop.

Other then that in random 8v8 drops you are spot on Glory.

[Hamm3r]

Simple answer is an 8 man team with VOIP fighting another 8 man team with VOIP means they may get stomped and that just wont do! There are KDR ratios to keep up man! Cant let that fall just cause another team might be better the us! No no, much better to synch-drop and stomp the PUGs! Then we're all but guaranteed a huge win and CBill score!

/sarcasm

Edited by Hamm3r, 31 December 2012 - 02:02 PM.

[Faldrin]

Yokaiko, on 31 December 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Nothing stopping solo droppers from grouping up.

Nothing stopping 4 man's from...well manning up and dropping 8 man's? Just face it guys you like pug stomping as it keeps the stat's up.