46 replies to this topic

[SwanseaAxeman]

I know this is BETA and everything is subject to change, but when I was playing last night a thought occurred to me; not once since playing have I ever got a feeling of scale within the maps.

I don't know if it is just me but when I play I don't feel like I am in a 50ft tall robot. I can see the buildings, the small vehicles and mini street lights but it never feels right.

I think the main thing that gets me is the texture scale on the scenery, like rocks and hills. I know the problems with making textures too small reveals the repetition pattern of the texture, but I think that the way they are makes everything feel kind of 'normal' scale.

I could just be overcritical, but I really don't get the sense of towering over buildings when piloting a mech in river city for example. From the cockpit of an Atlas I can get the kind of scale of the mech because of the size of the window, but it never seems to feel right in the environment. Perhaps it is the building architecture or the lack of anything that is readily recognisable as being 'human' scale, I can't put my finger on it.

Btw, how tall is an atlas supposed to be anyway?

Edited by SwanseaAxeman, 29 December 2012 - 08:13 AM.

[Cache]

SwanseaAxeman, on 29 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

Btw, how tall is an atlas supposed to be anyway?

In my opinion, 15 meters. In table top the generalized height was two levels/12 meters/4 stories. They've scaled them up in this game (as well as previous MW titles) so it's around 18 meters. That's about 6 stories so I don't think you'll ever feel you tower over buildings.

Edited by cache, 29 December 2012 - 08:19 AM.

[SwanseaAxeman]

cache, on 29 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

In my opinion, 15 meters. In table top the generalized height was two levels/12 meters/4 stories. They've scaled them up in this game (as well as previous MW titles) so it's around 18 meters. That's about 6 stories so I don't think you'll ever feel you tower over buildings.

Is that all? Wow, I always thought an Atlas would be bigger than that judging by the cockpit scale. I figured about 20-30 meters, give or take.

[PoLaR]

Unfortunately, I will never feel like this :[

[PiemasterXL]

Mech's are walking tanks. Battletech is a practical scifi pewpew laser death simulator. In previous MW titles there was combined arms, not just mech vs mech. Planes, helicopters, infantry, tanks and such. The bigger you are, the easier you are to hit.

[SwanseaAxeman]

PoLaR, on 29 December 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Unfortunately, I will never feel like this :[

Lol, that's kinda how I thought the mechs would be. Massive killer robots, smashing through skyscrapers,

Edited by SwanseaAxeman, 29 December 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[Pr8Dator]

In the lore, IIRC, all mechs are of the same 10m height with tonnage variation reflected only in the heavier frame, armor and weapons worn by the mech.

But even that, I don't get the sense of being in a 10m robot either... somehow it feels like I am running at normal human height too even with the buildings and all... I wonder why's that...

Even if you are comparing cockpit size, most of the mechs aren't of the right scale either... the smallish cockpit of the Stalker and Dragon should have made both mechs MUCH taller than all of the Cataphracts and Catapults.

Edited by Pr8Dator, 29 December 2012 - 08:35 AM.

[SwanseaAxeman]

I don't know a massive amount about the lore and I have only played a couple of the older games, but I always thought the mechs would be bigger for some reason.

[CDLord HHGD]

IMO, most mech sizes are about right. 14-18 meters. I do think the commando got the short end of the stick, it does need to be a bit taller....

[Timelordwho]

If you want a big mech: This guy is big.
http://www.sarna.net...ega_(BattleMech)

[Chavette]

SwanseaAxeman, on 29 December 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

I don't know a massive amount about the lore and I have only played a couple of the older games, but I always thought the mechs would be bigger for some reason.

The satatue is 15m high, for referenece.

[Cleverbird]

They're surprisingly small

[stjobe]

Pr8Dator, on 29 December 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

In the lore, IIRC, all mechs are of the same 10m height with tonnage variation reflected only in the heavier frame, armor and weapons worn by the mech.

Quoth sarna.net:

Quote

A BattleMech (often abbreviated 'Mech, although that could technically also refer to IndustrialMechs) is an armored combat vehicle of roughly humanoid shape, some 10 to 20 meters tall and typically massing from 20 to 100 tons.

I think MWO has gotten it right, with the Atlas at about 18m and the Commando at about 10m.

Edited by stjobe, 29 December 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[Cache]

stjobe, on 29 December 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

Quoth sarna.net:

I think MWO has gotten it right, with the Atlas at about 18m and the Commando at about 10m.

Sarna has it wrong. Way wrong.

It used to be "10 meters tall on average" then was changed to "10-12 meters average" and now this, from Total Warfare (the newest rulebook):

Quote

These huge, mostly humanoid vehicles stand eight to fourteen meters tall and weigh as much as one hundred tons.

TT players complain a lot about scale creep in minis but I never hear much complaining about the massive scale creep in the video games. Everyone expects them to be so much larger than they are--including the video game developers. They just keep getting bigger and bigger. It's a bit annoying. The cockpits in this game are as large as the entire interior of my full-size sedan. That's just wrong. I've sat in the cockpit of an F-16 and it is more cramped than the driver's side of my car. It's a machine of war... it's supposed to be that compact. The Commando cockpit is supposed to fill the entire head, not just the left side. Part of the problem is the insistence that the MechWarrior's only method of sight is out the viewport rather than the 360-into-160 degree helmet huds of lore. The viewports in the TT artwork are tiny because of this.

It's like when Hollywood makes a movie that takes place in a submarine or WWII bomber. Suddenly the interior becomes 2-3x as roomy as it is in reality.

[Sug]

SwanseaAxeman, on 29 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

I don't know if it is just me but when I play I don't feel like I am in a 50ft tall robot. I can see the buildings, the small vehicles and mini street lights but it never feels right.

Is it possible we don't feel it because we've never been in a 50ft robot and have no idea what things look like from that perspective?

[SwanseaAxeman]

Whilst I understand about scale creep from reality in Hollywood films, big hulking mechs is to me what MechWarrior is about. I also get that in reality the mechs would probably be reasonably small and have cramped interiors like all war machines. But as entertainment, reality just doesn't cut it and people want to say 'wow' when they see something and be impressed.

Sug, on 29 December 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

Is it possible we don't feel it because we've never been in a 50ft robot and have no idea what things look like from that perspective?

Well I have looked out from many high buildings and can kind of get the idea.

Personally I thought the mechs would be 20-30 meters tall and I know that is not correct from the replies, but seeing as this is a computer game I can understand why the mechs should be a larger scale and have roomy cockpits for fluffy dice and christmas lights.

Edited by SwanseaAxeman, 29 December 2012 - 10:24 AM.

[Adridos]

One thing is for certain. Those mechs are really huge.

If you fire them up in CryEngine editor, you'll see they are towering way above the buildings in there and when you swicth into the FPS mode, the scale hits you. I agree it doesn't work very well the other way around, since even I had no idea how huge some mechs actually are compared to conventional games.

[Cache]

SwanseaAxeman, on 29 December 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

But as entertainment, reality just doesn't cut it and people want to say 'wow' when they see something and be impressed.

I beg to differ. I say 'wow' if I find something to be realistic. That's a big part of how I got into BattleTech. It had a gritty, 'real' feeling to it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pr8Dator, on 29 December 2012 - 08:33 AM, said:

In the lore, IIRC, all mechs are of the same 10m height with tonnage variation reflected only in the heavier frame, armor and weapons worn by the mech.

But even that, I don't get the sense of being in a 10m robot either... somehow it feels like I am running at normal human height too even with the buildings and all... I wonder why's that...

Even if you are comparing cockpit size, most of the mechs aren't of the right scale either... the smallish cockpit of the Stalker and Dragon should have made both mechs MUCH taller than all of the Cataphracts and Catapults.

Actually, 10 meters is the average. Humanoid mechs in that group are listed as ranging from 8-14 meters, according to Herbert Beas, Battletech Line Developer, Catalyst Game Labs, current holder of the License. "Hunched" walker designs, and Quads can be considerably shorter.
http://bg.battletech...hp?topic=6374.0

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 29 December 2012 - 10:47 AM.

[Mathmatics]

Interesting topic. I do not mind the scale, personally. I only wish we had our neuro helmets on not looking through canon breaking giant view ports. It would be like making a star trek game where the view screen on the enterprise was the size of a view port of an M1-A2 tank. Just totally abandoning the fluff for no good reason. Selling cockpit flair is not a good reason btw.