60 replies to this topic

[Jason1138]

ideally i'd have liked to have seen an option for players to pilot tanks or helicopters if they ran out of C-bills and couldn't repair their mechs or something. or maybe as a way to gain double XP or whatever

but i definately think to get the sense of scale of mechs you have to have something smaller than mechs on the battlefield

[thalamus]

In MWLL, where there were 32 or 36 players on rather large maps, tanks and aerospace vehicles added an incredible amount of complexity, strategy and teamwork to the game. You'd call in air support if you were cornered by artillery and LRM campers, and the artillery and LRM campers would react by calling in AA. A Demolisher or Morrigu, although hardly maneuverable at all, could be set up to temporarily block pass (via denial logic). Infantrymen would hide among boulders and buildings and try to jump in inattentive 'Mechs.


Just to be sure, at no time were 'Mechs outclassed by other kinds of vehicles. 'Mechs were equipped to deal with any danger reasonably well and only very min-maxed 'Mechs were at a real disadvantage and only if they acted alone, completely unprotected. Teamwork was the very essence of combined arms 'Mech warfare; if the enemy team switched strategy and rolled out heavy but immobile units, someone from your team would go back to base, buy a plane, and start bombing runs, until the enemy team placed a Partisan or Huit (or Rifleman) somewhere, which would eventually be eaten by your light units, which were torn apart by assaults again ... ... (repeat ad infinitum).

Also, matches were considerably longer, lasting up to 2 hours, so in each match, a team's strategy would evolve over time.



Yeah, I am really having fond memories of MWLL and its combined arms aspect. I really miss it, but unfortunately there are only a few servers populated when I have the chance to play. But I believe MW:O could learn and benefit greatly from this superb mod that has been developed (and is still being developed!) by the best team of modders I've ever seen.

Even if the combined arms was only AI-controlled in MW:O, this would improve the game greatly even beyond pure gameplay and strategy (at this point, MWO is more of a brawling deathmatch shooter rather than something tactical). How cool would it be from a lore-perspective if you'd stand there in your 'Mech, squatting light vehicles left and right who get stuck in muddy terrain, proving that the few 'Mechs that are left in the successor state are really the kings of the battlefield?

[Lagfest]

Have you ever seen a Demollisher 2?

Its scary...

Only issue I could see would be the way tanks get Immobilized so fast. and turret locking.

[thalamus]

Lagfest, on 29 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

Have you ever seen a Demollisher 2?

Its scary...

Only issue I could see would be the way tanks get Immobilized so fast. and turret locking.

That's what balances them. They have massive armor and armament, but they are limited to flat terrain so they are suited for denying an area but outmaneuvered even by a Steiner Atlas Scout lance.

[Red squirrel]

I'll love to smash a couple of tanks with my Spider. Jumping over an obstacle *pew* *pew* *pew*
And out of range of the tank again

Also aircraft would be nice to see a JagerMech at ist best sshooting down helicopters and planes....

[Bishop Steiner]

Malteser, on 29 December 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

PvE really?

AI controlled mechs?

AI usually sucks at a lot of things, e.g. pathfinding, on the other hand it can perfectly calculate the lead on any target, making it so good, it has to intentionally miss the mark.
I don't want fight stupid aimbots ... I want to fight equals: other people that can think, adapt and give me a challenge.

(And don't tell me the lie that AI worked well in other games )

You gonna really tell me that AI could run any worse than about 50% of the People I PUG with? Hell, as long as the unit stays TOGETHER, they would accomplish more than most players seem to.

[Malteser]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

You gonna really tell me that AI could run any worse than about 50% of the People I PUG with? Hell, as long as the unit stays TOGETHER, they would accomplish more than most players seem to.

Yep.
I think AI will be a bit more worse.

But tell me, do you enjoy fighting such groups?

[Bishop Steiner]

Malteser, on 29 December 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

Yep.
I think AI will be a bit more worse.

But tell me, do you enjoy fighting such groups?

Sometimes they Surprise me. And trust me,doesn't take too much AI resource for a couple of tanks to hold a pass with the basic "shoot anything not a friendly " concept. But it sucks trying to punch through them. (And would be more entertaining if ECM caused some friendly fire incidents).

Only part I have no use for is the whole "Protect the Convoy" missions, which even in PvE, I do tend to find the most tedious, though the usefulness of AIs seem to vary greatly by game. Remember all PvE use AI, and some of them are damnably effective at swarming you.

[Red squirrel]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:

You gonna really tell me that AI could run any worse than about 50% of the People I PUG with? Hell, as long as the unit stays TOGETHER, they would accomplish more than most players seem to.

You nailed it!

I'm definitely not an advocate for AIs but they have their place and PvE would be a great addition to PvP IMHO.
Each of the two worlds has it's own charm.
(I am pointing here again at my personal wish for a single player campaign which IMHO just gives much more immersion than the constant 8on8 deathmatch)

Edit: Don't get me wrong I like the PvP mode too but I see so much more possibiliteis for this game.

____________
Advertisement:
http://mwomercs.com/...le-player-game/

Edited by Red squirrel, 29 December 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Malteser]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Sometimes they Surprise me. And trust me,doesn't take too much AI resource for a couple of tanks to hold a pass with the basic "shoot anything not a friendly " concept. But it sucks trying to punch through them. (And would be more entertaining if ECM caused some friendly fire incidents).

Only part I have no use for is the whole "Protect the Convoy" missions, which even in PvE, I do tend to find the most tedious, though the usefulness of AIs seem to vary greatly by game. Remember all PvE use AI, and some of them are damnably effective at swarming you.

IMHO PvE is only useful for story mode and I don't see how MW:O could have a story that is thrilling and by the same time canon and not in conflict with the game's own timeline. But it would surely include some "protect the convoy" missions

[Kobold]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

Only part I have no use for is the whole "Protect the Convoy" missions, which even in PvE, I do tend to find the most tedious, though the usefulness of AIs seem to vary greatly by game. Remember all PvE use AI, and some of them are damnably effective at swarming you.

Would "Protect the Convoy" missions be more fun if the raiders were other players in Community warfare?

[Bishop Steiner]

Kobold, on 29 December 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Would "Protect the Convoy" missions be more fun if the raiders were other players in Community warfare?

Some, but the flaws still come from the Convoys themselves. Even in games where OpFor AI seems pretty decent, "Convoy AIs" seem to be intentionally designed on the Short Bus. Maybe it is to add "degree of difficulty" but when the damn convey just rolls into the enemies leg and keeps bumping it, or get stuck on terrain (Anyone remember what happened in crowded maps you didn't hold your AI teammates hands on MW3? They would get so stuck you would have to restart the mission or kill them (which got the rest gunning for you) to actually end the mission because the ***** AI would walk your teammate into a closed alley or some such and it couldn't figure out how to "go around" to reach the rally point..

SO AI, well, the usefulness would depend on the quality. And the way Open Beta has been going, well, I can see some concerns there.......


Heh... how about we force the Devs to drive the convoy vehicles....... =P

[DoctorDanny]

In conquest missions, when you die you should respawn as a tank or apc.

[imdrunkontea]

I'd like to see them as support powers of some sort. Let each team be able to call in waves of NPCs for a cost (say, germanium score or c-bill award). You could have waves of choppers come in pew pewing the enemy with medium lasers, but it only takes one shot to down them (a la MW4)

[thalamus]

Bishop Steiner, on 29 December 2012 - 01:22 PM, said:

Some, but the flaws still come from the Convoys themselves. Even in games where OpFor AI seems pretty decent, "Convoy AIs" seem to be intentionally designed on the Short Bus. Maybe it is to add "degree of difficulty" but when the damn convey just rolls into the enemies leg and keeps bumping it, or get stuck on terrain (Anyone remember what happened in crowded maps you didn't hold your AI teammates hands on MW3? They would get so stuck you would have to restart the mission or kill them (which got the rest gunning for you) to actually end the mission because the ***** AI would walk your teammate into a closed alley or some such and it couldn't figure out how to "go around" to reach the rally point..

SO AI, well, the usefulness would depend on the quality. And the way Open Beta has been going, well, I can see some concerns there.......


Heh... how about we force the Devs to drive the convoy vehicles....... =P

Still, it shouldn't be impossible to program AI-controlled tanks. Navigation and orientation should be implementable with what tools CryEngine provides, they need to stick together a bit, proceed if the "swarm" seems to be strong enough (compared to what enemies are in sensor range), retreat if the swarm is too weak and shoot with targets with a certain level of accuracy. I mean I'm not saying writing an AI is trivial, but the know-how should be there.

[cinco]

yes yes no

mech warrior 3 and 4 were perfect specimens. follow their example.

[WolvesX]

cinco, on 29 December 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

yes yes no

mech warrior 3 and 4 were perfect specimens. follow their example.

Loved the scanner mission.

[PerfectTommy]

I remember years ago, FASA designer Sam Lewis would run an event at gaming conventions called, "Kill Sam Lewis".

He would field a Savannah Master tank. Opponents could field whatever single vehicle or mech they wanted to.

Sam won the matches an astonishing amount of the time.

Then he would give out FASA product, win or lose, which was cool.



-PT

[Merky Merc]

Deja vu?

I still want a VTOL or triple gauss tank

[Beo Vulf]

Not player controlled. Maybe npc vehicles that defend the base, or city, etc. that you are attacking. For conquest or Assualt modes i would like to see them change it so that one side is attacking and the other is defending. It would make the game a little more realistic.