12 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

Instead of completely blocking lock ons.. change it so that it significantly increases the lockon time for LRM's and Streaks.

Tag of course negates this part.

IMO, doing this will allow ECM's to provide a useful benefit on the battlefield without completely shutting down certain weapon types as it currently does.

[Vassago Rain]

But the only reason it exists is to shut down certain weapon types.

[Foxfire]

Vassago Rain, on 29 December 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

But the only reason it exists is to shut down certain weapon types.

Eh, I thought that it existed as a countermeasure system that hindered your enemies, not completely shut them down.

I use the ECM on a Raven.. the ECM is something that I've waited for a LONG time for.. and it is simply too good all around.

Allow lock on weapons to still be able to lock on(something that the Beagle did.. that functionality belongs to the Angel which was only ever a prototype by Comstar) but at a significantly longer lock on time, and you place a great importance on having a good scout while simultaneously allowing the ECM to be an asset on the battlefield AND preventing the ECM from having the level of domination that it currently has.

[Vassago Rain]

Foxfire, on 29 December 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

Eh, I thought that it existed as a countermeasure system that hindered your enemies, not completely shut them down.

I use the ECM on a Raven.. the ECM is something that I've waited for a LONG time for.. and it is simply too good all around.

Allow lock on weapons to still be able to lock on(something that the Beagle did.. that functionality belongs to the Angel which was only ever a prototype by Comstar) but at a significantly longer lock on time, and you place a great importance on having a good scout while simultaneously allowing the ECM to be an asset on the battlefield AND preventing the ECM from having the level of domination that it currently has.

Yes, it shuts down certain weapons. That's what it's there for.

[Foxfire]

Which, again, isn't the functionality of the Guardian. It is an information warfare counter to things like Artimis, the Beagle Active Probe, C3(which all mechs have inherently built in in MWO) and other targeting systems. The guardian doesn't completely block certain weapons, only makes them harder to use.

For BALANCE reasons, they need to revert the Guardian ECM to actually be the Guardian ECM, and not the Angel ECM.

[Vassago Rain]

Foxfire, on 29 December 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Which, again, isn't the functionality of the Guardian. It is an information warfare counter to things like Artimis, the Beagle Active Probe, C3(which all mechs have inherently built in in MWO) and other targeting systems. The guardian doesn't completely block certain weapons, only makes them harder to use.

For BALANCE reasons, they need to revert the Guardian ECM to actually be the Guardian ECM, and not the Angel ECM.

Why? We're supposed to wait 10 years for new stuff? If it must be a 100% tabletop emulation, why don't we add back the minimum ranges to certain autocannons, and revert the heat increase on medium lasers?

[Foxfire]

Vassago Rain, on 29 December 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Why? We're supposed to wait 10 years for new stuff? If it must be a 100% tabletop emulation, why don't we add back the minimum ranges to certain autocannons, and revert the heat increase on medium lasers?

Pretty sure that I said why: For balance reasons.

ECM, as implemented, is simply too powerful.

Let us take light vs light battles.

A Raven 3L, which can be equiped in a similar setup to the Jenner F with an ECM a the expense of 10 KPH and 1 energy slot. I can equip it with 3x small pulse, 2x SSRM's and dominate most light mechs with impunity. It is a joke how easy it is to take down a light mech when you can use Streaks and they can't. There is simply no comparison between streaks and regular SRM's at that speed, even with a good shot.

They also completely negate LRM's which severely hampers certain mechs(Catapults) and relegate them to only a couple of practical builds which run counter to the design's intent.

[Vassago Rain]

It's strange.
I see the same people complain on muh LRM homing rockets, wah, remove ECM, but it's only these same, few people. I don't want to say 'loud minority,' but never has a term been more fitting.

[Coole]

Does the implementation of this idea result in enemies showing up on sensors? If not, how else would you get the lrms to lock on? And if does allow scanners to pick you up, than doesn't that actually significantly limit the ecm?

[DocBach]

Vassago Rain, on 29 December 2012 - 01:42 PM, said:

But the only reason it exists is to shut down certain weapon types.

Pretty much it does feel like the way the devs implemented ECM was to satisfy people complaining about long-range and streak missile boats. Unfortunately, they upset a lot more people when they effectively carved entire viable roles out of the "deep" role warfare they promised, and dumbed down their information warfare to ECM and TAG.

[Foxfire]

Vassago Rain, on 29 December 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

It's strange.
I see the same people complain on muh LRM homing rockets, wah, remove ECM, but it's only these same, few people. I don't want to say 'loud minority,' but never has a term been more fitting.

Funny, because I have absolutely 0 mechs that equip LRM's.

My desire is to have fun fights again. It simply isn't fun being overly powerful if Im running my ECM.. nor is it fun to be completely outclassed if I don't run ECM and come up against someone who is.

Artemis is powerful and the ECM should counter it. It shouldn't, however, make an entire class of weapons useless.

As to people showing up on sensors... yes, I do think that outside of the sphere of influence of the ECM, you should be targetable. Not being able to target someone outside of the radius of the ECM is the function of the Null system, which is a completely separate piece of equipment that (rightfully) should only be granted to mechs that equip the system and not given as a sphere of influence effect of something like ECM.

Would that limit the ECM compared to where it is at now? Yes.. but it would still be a great piece of equipment for countering scouts and for ambush tactics... and extending it to counter things like Artemis and extending the general lock on timer for LRM's and Streak SRM's against those within the sphere of influence will provide group utility that is more in line with the rest of the game power wise.

[Percimes]

What if the ECM was affecting everyone in the bubble, allies and enemies? Instead of the counter/disrupt mode you'd have a on/off switch. Turn the thing on and no one can get a lock (or it takes longer to do so), it could also build up heat while on (as if on Caustic)

Another alternative would be for it to work on a pulsating mechanic: every x sec everyone in the bubble is cleared of all lock on them. If an ally with a BAP is in the bubble you get a new signal (lock) faster, meaning before the next pulse.

I don't know how much details are given in the TT rules as to how the ECM actual operate, but if it's vague enough there should be many ways to make the transition from turn base to real time.

[Codejack]

ECM was put in specifically to kill streakboats; Awesomes and especially Catapults. It accidentally over-nerfed LRMs, so they "buffed" TAG to try to fix that, which of course was a joke.

Hopefully the 100+ pages on the ECM feedback thread will convince them that this device is even more out of proportion than Artemis was initially; if not, the dozen or so polls showing 2/3-3/4 of people think that it should get the nerf-bat should.

The difference between playing an ECM mech and a non-ECM variant of the same chassis is the difference between following your big brother around in 2-player mode on easy vs. playing by yourself on elite.

ECM is for children.