53 replies to this topic

[Terrinator]

I played MW3 , MW4 and now MWO, I personally find that machine gun(s) in this "era" (referring to MWO) is not too much use in practical.

for 1.5 tons ( gun plus ammo ) you basically can fire the whole game without worrying ammunition depleted under normal game ( 2000 shot take full 200 seconds ).

the DPS is damn low ( 0.4 dps )… for similar weapon (lets use small laser to compare) 1 heat sink plus 1 small laser both use 2 critical slot, 1.5 tons, with similar engaging range, small laser win hands-down (dps 1.0 vs 0.4), I understand that machine guns are mean for using after armor is gone so please do not discuss this part first


What I wanted to suggest is, make the machine guns similar to MW4, MW4 group (3 for IS and 4 for Clan) machine guns together, they also having 1500/2000 round per ton, but only can practically fire 500 rounds, but with of course more reasonable dps at 2 tons per MG group

so, maybe PGI can allow us to fit in minimum 1 and maximum 4 machine guns ( 0.5 ton each ) into a single ballistic slot, for those who think 2 tons for short range MG is not worth , u can fell free to just install 1 MG into the ballistic slot , if this really happen, we are looking at 2 tons + 1 ton of ammo weapon system dealing 1.6 DPS in close range, with 500 shots ( which is more practical ) and crazy amount of potential critical damage after amor is teared off ( which is MG designed for )

I know some people will say, this is overpower blah blah blah… but u need to pay more tons MG… not only 0.5 tons but 2.0 tons, for those who pilot jenner should know, how powerful is 6 small laser ( 3 tons worth ) in close range, the DPS is definitely more than 1.6

thanks for reading , now please poll
ps: recreate a post because previous post was not reply able .

[Davers]

Machine guns are getting either a damage boost, or a critical hit boost. Let's see how that works out before making huge game changing fixes.

[Homeless Bill]

Personally, I'd like it if they did the hardpoint system more like MW4 (particularly in regards to weapon size limitation (I'm looking at you, K2)), but whatever.

If they give it a critical hit boost, it'll have a useful, niche role. I'm hoping for good things, but I'm not holding my breath, either.

[General Taskeen]

Many of these threads, but yeah the MG (and Flamer) are worthless.

You mentioned MW3/MW4, and indeed from what I know recently playing MW3, MG's actually do decent damage vs. Mechs in that game. I often use them to leg the AI Mechs in the Campaign. And that my friends is really all they need to do fix MG's in MWO, by retooling them and they should use the previous titles as examples.

[Sears]

I'd wait to see what the MGs buff will be like, I believe it's going to have it's crit seeking ability buffed a bit. So not so good on the damage but open up a mech and hose it with bullets you should crit it quicker.

As for the Flamer, I'd have it so that it has refillable ammo (engine produces plasma) which then fires out and sticks to an enemy mech setting the other mech on fire for a period of time. That mech then has a multiplier to heat ect ect. Also firing into internals increases the chance of ammo cooking off and exploding.

[Macheiron]

The idea you've suggested exists in BattleTech already http://www.sarna.net...chine_Gun_Array

The machine gun array counts as a single weapon (Hardpoint in MWO lingo) and adds .5 tons and 1 critical to the stack.

Example: MGA with 3 machine guns would weigh 2 tons and take 4 critical slots.

Unfortunately this technology doesn't exist until 3068 in BT Canon. It's an interesting idea, and would certainly make lighter mechs with ballistics dangerous close up, but I don't know I feel about letting a Cicada mount 16 MGs...

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

I made this same exact thread a couple weeks ago.

http://mwomercs.com/...34#entry1611934

Basically, it boils down to ignoring the timeline and replace current worthless Mguns with 3057 tech Mgun Arrays.

[Jordax]

machine guns are not ment to be use vs other mechs, in the btech universe mechs that have machine guns equiped are to defend vs conventional infantry, lightly armored vehicles and crowd control. There not suppose to have much effect vs other mech. Unless they plan to make some kind of single player campaign theres no use for them. MW3 had some elemental battle armor in it, and were fun to kill with machine guns.

[Team Leader]

Or they could just make the machine guns.. I dunno, do damage? Crazy right?



The legend says, in this fabled "Tabul Tawp", MGs did the same damage as AC2s in a turn..

[shintakie]

Jordax, on 30 December 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

machine guns are not ment to be use vs other mechs, in the btech universe mechs that have machine guns equiped are to defend vs conventional infantry, lightly armored vehicles and crowd control. There not suppose to have much effect vs other mech. Unless they plan to make some kind of single player campaign theres no use for them. MW3 had some elemental battle armor in it, and were fun to kill with machine guns.

You forgot your /sarcasm tags.

On topic!

I'd prefer a simple damage boost TBH. The last thing this game needs is even more bullets bein fired a second.

[Davers]

Macheiron, on 30 December 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

The idea you've suggested exists in BattleTech already http://www.sarna.net...chine_Gun_Array

The machine gun array counts as a single weapon (Hardpoint in MWO lingo) and adds .5 tons and 1 critical to the stack.

Example: MGA with 3 machine guns would weigh 2 tons and take 4 critical slots.

Unfortunately this technology doesn't exist until 3068 in BT Canon. It's an interesting idea, and would certainly make lighter mechs with ballistics dangerous close up, but I don't know I feel about letting a Cicada mount 16 MGs...

What is funny, is that giving a Cicada 16 machine guns wouldn't be OP. 3 Machine guns act like one slightly weakened medium laser dps-wise, and would actually be a lot less powerful in actual practice.

[Red squirrel]

Okay this is like thread number 1000 about this topic

http://mwomercs.com/...the-next-patch/
http://mwomercs.com/...ff/page__st__40
http://mwomercs.com/...chine-gun-buff/
http://mwomercs.com/...e/page__st__100
http://mwomercs.com/...ine-gun-damage/
http://mwomercs.com/...l-to-game-lore/
http://mwomercs.com/...ballistic-spot/
http://mwomercs.com/...onmg-ammo-1ton/
http://mwomercs.com/...hy/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...ssiles-and-mgs/
http://mwomercs.com/...he-machine-gun/
http://mwomercs.com/...ve/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...gs-and-flamers/
http://mwomercs.com/...7-flame-and-mg/
http://mwomercs.com/...un/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...ne-gun-buff-in/

Edit:
But to be constructive I vote "Fix the machine gun so it does the same DPS as an AC2 or a 1.5xSL within 90m"
So this means between 1.5 and 4 DPS.
Currently it is 0.4 DPS.

Edited by Red squirrel, 30 December 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[shintakie]

Davers, on 30 December 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

What is funny, is that giving a Cicada 16 machine guns wouldn't be OP. 3 Machine guns act like one slightly weakened medium laser dps-wise, and would actually be a lot less powerful in actual practice.

Errr...3 Machine Guns are just slightly stronger than a single Small Laser dps wise. If you include bullet spread they're weaker than a single Small Laser.

[MustrumRidcully]

Jordax, on 30 December 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

machine guns are not ment to be use vs other mechs, in the btech universe mechs that have machine guns equiped are to defend vs conventional infantry, lightly armored vehicles and crowd control. There not suppose to have much effect vs other mech. Unless they plan to make some kind of single player campaign theres no use for them. MW3 had some elemental battle armor in it, and were fun to kill with machine guns.

OMG, this old one again?

A Machine Gun in the table top game dealt the exact same damage as an AC/2, it just had a much bigger range. It also eixsted in the game before there were rules for infantry. Once there were rules for infantry, MGs kept their damage values but got special rules that made them even more effective against infantry.

The OP's idea unfortunately will not do much - it's not the hard point cost that is making Machine Guns worthless - if you could fit in 5 for the price of one hard point, they would still be terrible for their weight. THe only way to fix Machine Guns is raising their damage. The idea that they might also deal more critical damage is neat and all, but it's pointless to equip a weapon just for its effectiveness when you get your enemies already hanging in the ropes without armour. And even then, you still need to compete with weapons that could deal 2 (AC2, with a 1x Crit Multiplier fo damage) to 60 (AC/20, with a 3x Crit Multiplier) points of damage to your 10 hit point internal components with each shot.

[Davers]

shintakie, on 30 December 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

Errr...3 Machine Guns are just slightly stronger than a single Small Laser dps wise. If you include bullet spread they're weaker than a single Small Laser.

I was thinking 4 damage every 10 seconds, times 3. Compared to a ML fired roughly 3 times in 10 seconds.

[Terrinator]

Crap.... The timeline thing is involved
So , MWO stand for mech warrior origin? What is the reason that it take so many years for mech technician to realize MG in small number is just crap

Why not make MG is like utility slot , just like AMS slot?

[Bluescuba]

LOL so let me get this straight...

For 3 tons I get 4 mgs and a ton of ammo per ballistic hard point. So I have a cataphract 4x so that means that I can mount 16 mgs (4mgs x 4 hardpoints) for 12 tons which is 6.4 dps; now each bullet has a chance to crit so i get 160 chance to crit per second all for 0 heat.

Now I still have crit space and heat to spare, so lets put in an srm4 with a ton of ammo, and 2 MPL. Ok this is build should still run cool.

This is the way this mech will play srm 4 = 10, 2 x MPL = 12 and 16 mgs = 6.4 making a total of 28.4 dps and an insane crit chance.

I'm thinking OP.

[Terrinator]

Bluescuba, on 30 December 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

LOL so let me get this straight...

For 3 tons I get 4 mgs and a ton of ammo per ballistic hard point. So I have a cataphract 4x so that means that I can mount 16 mgs (4mgs x 4 hardpoints) for 12 tons which is 6.4 dps; now each bullet has a chance to crit so i get 160 chance to crit per second all for 0 heat.

Now I still have crit space and heat to spare, so lets put in an srm4 with a ton of ammo, and 2 MPL. Ok this is build should still run cool.

This is the way this mech will play srm 4 = 10, 2 x MPL = 12 and 16 mgs = 6.4 making a total of 28.4 dps and an insane crit chance.

I'm thinking OP.

Well MG are meant for critical hit, and my suggestion are just idea haven fine tune

I actually love to use catapult K2 , with both AC20, usually take me 2 shot ( 4 ammo) to get a kill, does not even go into critical hit phase, so shall I say AC20 even more OP?

[Tickdoff Tank]

Jordax, on 30 December 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

machine guns are not ment to be use vs other mechs, in the btech universe mechs that have machine guns equiped are to defend vs conventional infantry, lightly armored vehicles and crowd control. There not suppose to have much effect vs other mech. Unless they plan to make some kind of single player campaign theres no use for them. MW3 had some elemental battle armor in it, and were fun to kill with machine guns.

I really, REALLY wish that this myth would just DIE. MGs were always supposed to be effective against mechs. ALWAYS. The recieve a *bonus* to attacking infantry, but a bonus against one type of target does not mean it is ineffective against another target. MGs do the same damage as an AC2 (in TT) and only 1 point less than a small laser.

The MG fills the same "niche" as the small laser, low damage, short range filler weapon. The MG and SL both weigh .5 tons, the SL needs 1 heatsink to be heat neutral and the MG needs 1 ton ammo. They are both designed to hurt a mech.

Hopefully the upcoming buff to the MG will make them a useful weapon.

[Davers]

Bluescuba, on 30 December 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

LOL so let me get this straight...

For 3 tons I get 4 mgs and a ton of ammo per ballistic hard point. So I have a cataphract 4x so that means that I can mount 16 mgs (4mgs x 4 hardpoints) for 12 tons which is 6.4 dps; now each bullet has a chance to crit so i get 160 chance to crit per second all for 0 heat.

Now I still have crit space and heat to spare, so lets put in an srm4 with a ton of ammo, and 2 MPL. Ok this is build should still run cool.

This is the way this mech will play srm 4 = 10, 2 x MPL = 12 and 16 mgs = 6.4 making a total of 28.4 dps and an insane crit chance.

I'm thinking OP.

Ummm...for 9 tons (16 machine guns and 1 ton of ammo) you would get better dps with 1 ac/2. Not exactly OP.

Tickdoff Tank, on 30 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

I really, REALLY wish that this myth would just DIE. MGs were always supposed to be effective against mechs. ALWAYS. The recieve a *bonus* to attacking infantry, but a bonus against one type of target does not mean it is ineffective against another target. MGs do the same damage as an AC2 (in TT) and only 1 point less than a small laser.

The MG fills the same "niche" as the small laser, low damage, short range filler weapon. The MG and SL both weigh .5 tons, the SL needs 1 heatsink to be heat neutral and the MG needs 1 ton ammo. They are both designed to hurt a mech.

Hopefully the upcoming buff to the MG will make them a useful weapon.

People love quoting that, but if machine guns are anti-infantry weapons, so are pulse lasers.

Edited for all kinds of weird multi-quoting.

Edited by Davers, 30 December 2012 - 04:48 PM.