53 replies to this topic

[shintakie]

Vassago Rain, on 30 December 2012 - 10:47 PM, said:

I just want a short-ranged, effective ballstic I can put on my lights and mediums. Four machineguns should be dangerous, but have tiny ranges.

It worked in every other mechwarrior game, so why isn't it like this in MWO?

Couple reasons why it doesnt work like that.

First reason is they wanted the Machine Gun to, for once, be a machine gun instead of a weird ballistic weapon with a cooldown. In MW4 the machine gun was little more than a AC weapon with a short cd. In MWO its actually what you think of when you think machne gun. Bullets everywhere, awesome noises, lots of dakka dakka basically.

Second is they got the tunin all wrong when it came to the MG. I'm not exactly sure how they came up with the damage values for machine guns, but they're awful, just plain awful. Its the closest any weapon has come to its TT values which, in a world of super dps AC/2s and terrifyin Gauss damage in 10 second windows, only double the damage in a 10 second window is pretty abysmal.

[Utilyan]

I use machine guns, my favorite weapon. I got a cicada 3c with 4mg and flamer.

The truth is ....... Machine guns are too powerful.

Last patch......NERF.
This is from last patch notes.

* HUD will no longer flicker unnaturally when shot with machine gun fire and flamers beyond a certain damage threshold
Look a master of machine guns is a unstoppable force! And require vast dicipline and ninja training.


You do not want to buff these things. You don't understand cause you were not there when these things first got nerfed.

Think of them as end game toys for master mech pilots. For pilots looking for a challenge.

They used to be good vs unarmored mech (you know when a mech loses its armor it loses the outline) I think that got nerfed too.

Ever get a feeling of deja vu?

Well, In another life MGs and Flamers caused great suffering to mechs and such a major butt whooping that the universe, the mech-warrior gods and animal rights activists.....decided to curse those weapons with a perpetual nerf.

On top of this remains a gallant few rebellious mech pilots who were also cursed with wanting to use machine guns and flamers regardless of how horrible the weapons appear. Its like the pilots got nerfed too. It was a great existential price paid to deliver the greatest mg flamer butt whooping of all time that even now echos through eternity.

Thats what happened.

[CrashieJ]

I propose an Idea:

"machine gun arrays"

a special "framework" of 2 critslots weighing nothing to .5 tons, can mount a maximum of 3 or 4 machineguns.

advantages:
2 crit slots are used instead of 3 or 4

disadvantages:
costs critslots and tonnage?
if your array gets destroyed all the guns are destroyed

[Jaden Tahl]

Instead of a four mg stack, I think a boost to 0.5 dmg with a dual mg mount would be perfect... this would equal equivalent dmg to a sm laser, with the possibility of ammo depletion, but effectively doubling the chance of a crit. I think that would be a workable solution.

[shintakie]

gavilatius, on 31 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

I propose an Idea:

"machine gun arrays"

a special "framework" of 2 critslots weighing nothing to .5 tons, can mount a maximum of 3 or 4 machineguns.

advantages:
2 crit slots are used instead of 3 or 4

disadvantages:
costs critslots and tonnage?
if your array gets destroyed all the guns are destroyed

That still makes MG's inferior to every other possible piece of equipment you put on other than flamers.

[Irreverence]

Macheiron, on 30 December 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

The idea you've suggested exists in BattleTech already http://www.sarna.net...chine_Gun_Array
The machine gun array counts as a single weapon (Hardpoint in MWO lingo) and adds .5 tons and 1 critical to the stack.
Example: MGA with 3 machine guns would weigh 2 tons and take 4 critical slots.
Unfortunately this technology doesn't exist until 3068 in BT Canon.

Yeah, it's unfortunate. If they didn't follow a 1:1 timeline all these date restrictions wouldn't be a problem. It's not like they can actually keep up anyway, especially with everything happening in 2013:3050.

If they didn't follow a 1:1 timeline, then we'd actually be surprised when the clans finally invaded. Now we'll just be disappointed when they don't.

Edited by Irreverence, 31 December 2012 - 07:43 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

Machine gun clusters havent been invented yet.


The federated suns develop them in 3068


Jaguar develops light and heavy MGs prior to that though. Clan has them in 3059

[Utilyan]

the work around is simply make a "MG Hard point" All it does is add a hardpoint(s) only accessable for MGs.

The array was made to fire mgs as ONE weapon. Thats not what we want anyway. The "canon-wise" there was no hardpoint system. I used to be able ot make a mech with like 20 mgs.

Maybe developers dont want a 20 mg mech rolling around. They could still allow a "gun rack system". or make mgs with "x2, x3, x4" depending on what their taste wants to limit.

The idea is do to MGs what you do to SRMs and LRMs.

So a MGx4 is simply 4 machineguns, weighs 2 tons, taking up 4 slots ect. nothing special.


So if you have one balistic hard point. wanted 8 mgs you get a MGx8, 4 tons, takes 8 slots ect. and all it is,is 8 machine guns.

We already do this to SRMs and LRMs to an extent. Simply do the same to machine guns.

On the weapon screen the MGs show up as individual weapons, because thats what they are individual weapons nothing special.

[Davers]

A machine gun hard point pretty much craps on customization though. It's either 'machine gun, or no machine gun'. And right now that would just mean 'no machine gun'.

[Zphyr]

I do not mind them doing a bit more damage, but don't know if making them 4x is a good idea as it would be too powerful. MG do little damage but the crits are interesting... with only 2 MG on a raven already killed 3 or 4 heavies or assaults, although only if they were stripped of armor. They could not kill a no-armor light with a couple lasers in the time it took 2MG to kill them.

The only thing I would look up for in this is having some ballistic weapons lighter than an AC2 but hit harder than a MG.

Edited by Zphyr, 01 January 2013 - 03:00 PM.

[Terrinator]

what if machine guns have bonus damage if hitting cockpit?

what i mean hitting everywhere except cockput ( with armor ) is not effective, hitting cockpit with armor or without armor is as effective as hitting a mech without armor...

[Kaijin]

Red squirrel, on 30 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Okay this is like thread number 1000 about this topic

http://mwomercs.com/...the-next-patch/
http://mwomercs.com/...ff/page__st__40
http://mwomercs.com/...chine-gun-buff/
http://mwomercs.com/...e/page__st__100
http://mwomercs.com/...ine-gun-damage/
http://mwomercs.com/...l-to-game-lore/
http://mwomercs.com/...ballistic-spot/
http://mwomercs.com/...onmg-ammo-1ton/
http://mwomercs.com/...hy/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...ssiles-and-mgs/
http://mwomercs.com/...he-machine-gun/
http://mwomercs.com/...ve/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...gs-and-flamers/
http://mwomercs.com/...7-flame-and-mg/
http://mwomercs.com/...un/page__st__20
http://mwomercs.com/...ne-gun-buff-in/

Edit:
But to be constructive I vote "Fix the machine gun so it does the same DPS as an AC2 or a 1.5xSL within 90m"
So this means between 1.5 and 4 DPS.
Currently it is 0.4 DPS.

You really do have a lot of time on your hands...

[Sifright]

Another mg thread that needs to be closed and it's post count and link added to the MG discussion balance thread

This is a post to assist the mods in understanding the breadth of the problem I will be copy pasting this into older machine gun threads that did not recieve mod or dev attention so the feed back can be linked from the new thread.

[Egomane]

Closed!

For MG discussion go here: http://mwomercs.com/...eedback/unread/