Ask The Devs 29A - Answers!
#81
Posted 03 January 2013 - 06:58 AM
#82
Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:44 AM
Arcturious, on 03 January 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:
What were these factual errors? I'm sure there was some given the magnitude of the questions, but all questions concerning ECM were not "full of factual errors."
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Please provide a link. The last thing I saw concerning ECM was in PCGamer, over 3 weeks ago, where Paul said that ECM is working as intended. Sure he also said that there will likely be a couple more counters involving modules and weapon effects. However, for those that have concerns over ECM, that is not very reassuring.
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Don't quit your day job, you make a horrible mind reader. The majority of the posts I've seen state that we simply want a balanced game. A lot of the ECM suggestions out there also include changes toward LRM and SSRM. The only thread I saw asking for the removal of ECM, only wanted it to be temporary until ECM was "fixed" to be added later.
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True. However calling TAG a proper counter to ECM is a joke. It must be held on target until lock is made, roughly 3-5 seconds. You also must factor in the time it takes for the missiles to hit target, perhaps another 2-5 seconds. The rare occasions where TAG is a viable solution, the target was standing out in the open, thus he would have died to LRM regardless. TAG is simply allowing LRMs the ability to do what they should be able to do already. ECM is granting the target the ability to make poor decisions like run out in the open. Anyone that foolishly runs in the open, should be punished.
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I imagine even more are planned and on the way.
That being said, you should see our frustration. Why not [PGI] respond to the questions stating the fact that counters are on the way?
Edited by StalaggtIKE, 03 January 2013 - 09:06 AM.
#83
Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:51 AM
Marcus Tanner, on 03 January 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:
Agreed. How someone could play a MW game, and not realize how important this is baffles me. Coring is a big part of MW, the better when done as a team. The ability to passively remove shared targeting is a huge buff! This alone is a big part of hurting teamwork within pug games.
#84
Posted 03 January 2013 - 07:54 AM
Arcturious, on 03 January 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:
If your son is having problems with the Ilya, I suggest actually trying to teach him ways of better using its capabilities and explaining how heat vision works. Train him to be an anti ECM nightmare and watch as he gets congratulated by his team mates. Both his and your enjoyment of the game will likely increase as a result. Taking the negative approach is easy but if you truly want a return on your investment you need to look for the real reason behind the poor performance in this specific chassis and adjust. Perhaps in the D-DC he uses SRM more, which means he might benefit from mounting LB10X as his AC weapons. There are many possible solutions, however ECM is not and can not be the problem.
This is a good post and I will answer.
First he is young and as we all know the young want fun. Not a game that has a learning curve that is so high.EDIT{He adapt to the high curve, then the game made a new learning curve}. This is the reason this game is losing so many first timers.
Second he is avg when it come to Ballistic or Energy weapons. Not great not you suck but avg. So 1 v 1 he hold his own. The issue as he explained to me is this. Dad I can not see the if 1 or the whole team is there till i get killed. So I watch his style and each time ECM is one the field is is Raven L 's not one, not 2 but 3 and 4. With lag shield trying to hit one is a issue. Trying hitting 3 or 4 you are toast.
Third coms lol there are non. You can not call for help. So what is a kids to do, ? DIE.
Even as a skilled player vs ravens issue. Versus a raven with ecm BIG issue. Versus 3 -4 ecm raven anyone want to uninstall.
Now granted there are not always that many ravens. There are other players using ecm and lag shield as a ez mode.
Does that help noobs. No, it basically just make the game frustrating as hell.
He started the game and loved it. Even in the crappy overheat all the time trial mechs.
Got his Commando 1b {alone}. Still loved it. I pay money for a mech LLYA. He love love love it. Then ECM take the love away.
What does this suggest to you?
To me is suggest a issue with ECM. It is funny, he back to loving it now that he has ECM. Hence why, I Force him in to the LLYa for every 4 ecm matches. Though I only allow him in the 2D commando, if his stat drop more the .05.
Edit FYI SRM is ok he says.after reading his. "It's the AC20 to the dome"
Do I want the ECM gone ? Hell no. I want the true GECM not one with Angel ECM Suite with Null Signature System and Stealth armor.
Edited by warp103, 03 January 2013 - 08:20 AM.
#85
Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:01 AM
warp103, on 03 January 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:
Agreed. In fact I would look forward to the inclusion of new techs: Angel ECM, Null Signature and Stealth armor. I just want a properly balanced MechWarrior game.
Edited by StalaggtIKE, 03 January 2013 - 09:02 AM.
#86
Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:01 AM
I try to not get in PGI's face about these things, I haven't a clue how to run a video game, how to code it properly, (I have designed my own game for TT, RPG, so I actually feel somewhat capable on balancing things, personally). but an answer on these, really huge 'problems' (ie, a lot of players are concerned about them, even though not everyone is), and directly here and not via PC gamer, would be a huge bonus to them.
Seriously, wouldn't that be a good thing? If everyone feels confident in the product's expectations of PGI, people would feel better about spending money. Isn't that why so many people bought founders packages? Answering the big elephants in the room would be all good for everyone.
#87
Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:15 AM
StalaggtIKE, on 03 January 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:
Well, consider that ECM is meant to reduce teamwork in the game. The use of ECM requires no teamwork, no effort, no initiation of action on the part of the ECM unit, and works to encourage the ECM unit to isolate themselves from the rest of the team to avoid accidental hits or detection. Conversively, the 'counter' equipment of TAG requires massive team effort in order that the TAGing unit find a target, designate it for an extended period of time during which it cannot, itself, effectively fire weapons other than large lasers, and survive long enough in open line-of-sight for TAGing not to be a death-sentence (read: another unit on top of the TAGing unit and the unit it is designating for has to distract the target from firing on the TAG unit).
In short, using ECM breaks teamwork on the mounting side, while countering it requires at -least- three times the number of opponents than the ECM unit, all working perfectly together without anyone interfereing. Thus the counter is beyond unrealistic or sound, making people unwilling to even attempt or equip for it, again discouraging teamwork on the other side. In no way can ECM be said to be intended to work to make more teamwork.
Until a viable counter that is balanced against ECM is made available, this is how things will be. And right now, based on the silence of the Devs towards the entire subject, that balance is not on the horizon or even something they want to address.
Edited by Jakob Knight, 03 January 2013 - 09:19 AM.
#88
Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:23 AM
All of the "ask the devs" are just answering completely non consequential questions.
They like the state of balance, are a joke.
Case and point, "we think PPCs and LPL make too much heat"..... it only took them months to figure that one out. Don't look for a ECM balance till summer.
Edited by 3rdworld, 03 January 2013 - 09:24 AM.
#89
Posted 03 January 2013 - 09:40 AM
3rdworld, on 03 January 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:
All of the "ask the devs" are just answering completely non consequential questions.
They like the state of balance, are a joke.
Case and point, "we think PPCs and LPL make too much heat"..... it only took them months to figure that one out. Don't look for a ECM balance till summer.
. . .
#90
Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:27 AM
#91
Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:44 AM
#92
Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:50 AM
Flagrant, on 03 January 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:
That's great that you got some reassurance from the article. I, and I'm sure some other, did not. His first statement concerning ECM, was:
Paul Inouye said:
This already says to me that he is happy with the result. That means the burden lies on the players to provide proof that there is a problem as he doesn't currently see one.
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I've read a lot of feedback on ECM, I have yet to see one that asked to severely nerf it. This just make it appear as if he's out of touch with the fans of the game. That being said there is soo much feedback out there, that I am sure at least someone has called for a huge nerf. Next he lists TAG as a counter.
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TAG grants you the ability to smart fire missiles, however it does not neutralizes ECM's other abilities such as distorting minimap or stealthing allies, thus it is not a counter. No, TAG is simply another form of attack against an ECM mech, just as any other mech. Calling TAG a counter to ECM is about as good as calling the AC10 a counter to ECM. It's absurd; the only true counter is more ECM.
Let's say modules are really in the works. Why not announce it during this Q&A session? At the very least announce the concern over ECM and give it a blatant "we're looking into it." ECM was clearly on a lot of people's minds and it deserved some recognition.
Source: PCGamer
Edited by StalaggtIKE, 03 January 2013 - 12:11 PM.
#93
Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:38 AM
Vassago Rain, on 03 January 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:
need to add my sad fatlas-rs quad-llas 40shs mech with one ams to that list. ecm radiation causes his friendlies to go full-on-manhattan-project-level-derp.
neither gold nor lrms.
#95
Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:01 PM
ECM is brokenly good, pure and simple. Here's a question to answer, is this your first game ever? I'd love to know what other games these developers have made. Putting in something so over the top, for so little cost, what were you thinking? I'm in the industry, and I can't believe this even got past the morning meeting, so to speak.
#96
Posted 03 January 2013 - 02:45 PM
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A: Yes, they do. Mechs all use the same weapons, so different class/variants wouldn't do different damage. [Garth]
You could have explained poor guy about fcked up net coding and hit boxes meters ahead of mechs.
#97
Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:00 PM
A: I'll have to ask DavidB when he's back from his holiday (next week). [Garth]"
Why is this even in here as a question if you can't answer it?
#98
Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:32 PM
#99
Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:39 PM
I am sure they will develop an answer and possible adjustment for this very polarizing issue soon. They have a lot to consider with respect to the player base feelings on the matter. The matter calls for patience, after all, the addition of the capability is fairly recent. I'd rather see more mechs and maps, frankly, and let them tweak things as time marches by.
One last thing, be nice, everybody, leave the rage elsewhere, it does no one any good to cloud the issue with unproductive nattering. Good points of view, rationally articulated even in a spirited many, achieves more.
Edited by Gremlich Johns, 03 January 2013 - 03:42 PM.
#100
Posted 03 January 2013 - 03:48 PM
Tolkien, on 02 January 2013 - 03:03 PM, said:
It was still the most popular question by a factor of 8 for 3 weeks running, and had >200 + >80 likes in ATD29 and 29A respectively.
So hundreds of people people in the community were willing to put their name beside the question to say "please address this" and it was addressed with silence. I can only hope that this means they are preparing a response of some sort and want the 2nd attempt at ECM to go off better than this.
In the meantime I personally am dealing with it by fielding a streak COM2D and a laser+streak Raven 3L, both with ECM, and both very fast. Given that the ad for a lead network programmer is still up, I expect to get a few more months of lag shield out of them, and given that ECM mostly neutered the homing missiles that used to counter lights that would run in the open or circle strafe in line, it's a pretty effective build.
I encourage everyone to make the most of ECM while we have this great toy to play with. I feel bad for people like Warp103's son who spent dollars on a mech (I have 4 founders mechs gathering dust) that was 'game changed' by ECM.
While it was good that you listed every single item ECM does counter I think the question was just too detailed and that's why it was not answered. On the other side, we do not know if Garth just kept it out because he has led your detail to the team and they have no answer to it yet how it's best to solve. At the end we do not know and we have to continue to address it.
I think the best way to proof your thesis is to meet Garth with 8 ECM mechs and say "hi" to him.
And about people who spend tons of money into the game. personal fault. it's beta and while our money helps to develop the game, it's at the moment for the game designers turn to show the results of pumping money into their beta game.
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