76 replies to this topic

[ravenkk]

Even 4 erppc + 2 AC 10 + other would still be petty bad, but thats Clan for you.

[xX_Nero_Xx]

a daishi should be able to hold 3 clan guass or uac 20s and 4 er lrg do the math on that damage output even with the dhs staying the same but takeing 2 slots that be a lot of short burst dps

[Grendel408]

Just saying... but did anyone notice the date the video was posted? Almost a year ago... with the new heat rules implemented, running a build like that is pure suicide... Clanner or not

[dal10]

6 ERppcs are impossible on a masakari. you can only fit 4 with 3.5 tons left over.

daishi could do it but it would kill itself in the process. 92 heat and 58 dissipation.

Edited by dal10, 06 December 2013 - 10:09 PM.

[Autobot9000]

On the first hand according to lore the PPCs do bursts of sparks, hence a true-to-the-lore PPC is not pin point and can be "microed against" by piloting, distributing the damage and/or mitigating it. But since this is MWO PGI chose to make it pin-point and come up with an inexplicable, goofy ghost heat "solution", that makes it impossible to use PPCs. Any more questions?

[Karl Streiger]

dal10, on 06 December 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

6 ERppcs are impossible on a masakari. you can only fit 4 with 3.5 tons left over.

daishi could do it but it would kill itself in the process. 92 heat and 58 dissipation.

Depends - how you stay with the OmniMech capabilitys:
Currently the Warhawk has 10 pre installed DHS and 32.5t module capacity
When you choose to use 3 pre installed DHS and ES instead of FF - you get a OmniMech that has 40.5 free Module Capcity could be increased to 43.5t when using FF too (but for the costs of modul space)

If i would have to dedo the Warhawk II it will end with 42.5 module capcity (althoug i thin i would move it to 90t - with 41t module capacity)

[dal10]

but if you retool it, it would no longer be an omnimech.

[Karl Streiger]

dal10, on 10 December 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

but if you retool it, it would no longer be an omnimech.

And?
Do you think PGI is capable of designing a layer - were you can switch the versions of a OmniMech in the ready screen?
If not - the Clan OmniMechs will work in the same fashion as the current BattleMech.

Although i really really hope that I'm wrong.

[Tombstoner]

Karl Streiger, on 10 December 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

And?
Do you think PGI is capable of designing a layer - were you can switch the versions of a OmniMech in the ready screen?
If not - the Clan OmniMechs will work in the same fashion as the current BattleMech.

Although i really really hope that I'm wrong.

I'm hoping that clan mech's can only change there hard points and let IS change everything else but the hard points.

I am also hoping that clan EPPPC's do 10 damage 15 heat but have a 50% improved damage at max range. basically just change the damage drop off slope.

[dal10]

on a side note, your 90 ton masakari wouldn't be able to run 6 ERPPCs either.

[Karl Streiger]

dal10, on 10 December 2013 - 07:43 AM, said:

on a side note, your 90 ton masakari wouldn't be able to run 6 ERPPCs either.

Is there any Mech that could dissipate 90 heat? Hm - maybe the 150t Omega can. With 6 Clan ER-PPCs and it has the place to mount 33 external clan DHS

[dal10]

best i could get was 78 dissipation, at that point i ran out of crits.

[The Boneshaman]

ok i did not read all the post to see if any one has caculated this. i used my heavy metal pro. a program used to make mechs record sheets for TT. You can put your mind at ease we will not see a 6 ERPPC MASAKARI. ONLY if they stay true to omnimech lore and not allow us to chang engine/armor/heatsinks/internal. The MASAKARI has only 32.5 tons of pod space and comes with a targeting computer as fixed equipment. Clan ER PPCs weigh 6 tons and to get 6 of them is 36 tons 4.5 tons over weight, 11.5 with the TC that comes fixed. it wound generate 90 heat out of the 40 that is fixed in it (20 double comes stock). even if you drop the engine size snd ad ES your are over on the crit space. the MASAKARI come stock with

Mass: 85 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 340 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament: 32.5 podspace
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: Targeting Computer
20 Double Heatsinks
So a 6 ER PPC MASAKARI will be verry unlikely and useless. hear is also the game rules for TCs for TT
Game Notes
The Targeting Computer can be used to help aim all direct fire weapons, including most energy and ballistic weapons. This results in a -1 to-hit modifier for all eligible weapons that tie in, or the ability to aim for a location that is not the head with a +3 to-hit penalty. Clan Targeting Computers weigh one ton and occupy one critical slot for every five tons of equipment they control (rounded up), while a comparable Inner Sphere version weighs one ton and occupies one critical slot for every four tons it controls (also rounded up). Total Warfare updated the rules to specify that Pulse Lasers (including Variable Speed Pulse Lasers and X-Pulse Lasers) as well as multi-shot firing autocannon cannot aim their fire, unless the affected autocannon are fired in single shot mode. In addition, an LB-X autocannon only receives the benefits if it is firing solid rounds instead of cluster ammunition.
So the TC would weigh about 8 tons ant take up crts.

[The Boneshaman]

Now a 6 ERPPC DAISHI now we have a problem. But still can only get 29 (58) double heat sinks with 90 points of heat from all 6 ERPPCs

[Volt Corsair]

I like how no one's even stated that the Warhawk can't fire it's quad ER PPC load out in an alpha in the first place, let alone the six originally proposed.

From Sarna:
"In its primary configuration, the Warhawk had an impressive arsenal of long range weapons which were centered around four ER PPCs that took advantage of the 'Mech’s Targeting Computer. While unable to fire all of the ER PPCs at once it could use a volley fire strategy to manage its heat. These were backed up by an LRM-10 launcher that allowed the Warhawk a secondary weapon that can be utilized for long range combat."

[The Boneshaman]

well technecly it can. if you run and fire 4 ERPPCs and 1 LRM10 it will generate 66 points of heat the 20 (40) double heat sinks will diapate 40 of it bringing it up to 26 on the heat scale where it will have this effect added to it. Shutdown avoid on a 10+,-5 movement, +4 modifier to Fire, Ammo explosion avoid on a 6+. if it stood still and fired only the PPCs it would go up 20 on the heat Scale with a -4 movementAmmo explosion avoid on a 4+ shutdown avoid on a 6+ +3 Modifier to fire. i am going by TT rules so it would be diffrent when aplyed to MWO with ghost heat and all. but in TT whene you shut down or over ride your shutdown it will not damage or distroy your mech.

Edited by The Boneshaman, 11 December 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

The Boneshaman, on 11 December 2013 - 06:18 PM, said:

well technecly it can. if you run and fire 4 ERPPCs and 1 LRM10 it will generate 66 points of heat the 20 (40) double heat sinks will diapate 40 of it bringing it up to 26 on the heat scale where it will have this effect added to it. Shutdown avoid on a 10+,-5 movement, +4 modifier to Fire, Ammo explosion avoid on a 6+. if it stood still and fired only the PPCs it would go up 20 on the heat Scale with a -4 movementAmmo explosion avoid on a 4+ shutdown avoid on a 6+ +3 Modifier to fire. i am going by TT rules so it would be diffrent when aplyed to MWO with ghost heat and all. but in TT whene you shut down or over ride your shutdown it will not damage or distroy your mech.

And because its a Omni you can replace the LRMs with more Heatsinks so you have 23 DHS (46) with a shot of 4 ER-PPCs without movement - you are at 14 heat - shouldn't be a problem to avoid shutdown. And with the inflationary gunnery skills of the secenario books after the clan invasion you should have a problem - to cripple most targets with a single volley.
(although i admit - because ER-Large Laser are not DoT in TT - 4 ER-Large Laser could work much better.

However regarding the 6 ER-PPC guy...shouldn't be necessary at all. the Annihilator could mount 4 Clan GaussRifles and 2 Clan ER-PPCs....heat is at 8 when firing all weapons without movement.

[Vanguard319]

dal10, on 10 December 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

but if you retool it, it would no longer be an omnimech.

So what? The whole point of an Omnimech is to allow for easy field swapping of weapons and equipment, particularly if you need to swap out damaged or destroyed components. No mechwarrior game has ever demonstrated this ability ingame, since destroyed components remain destroyed, even if you have access to a repair bay during a mission. The only game that really tried to distinguish omnis from standard mechs was Mechwarrior 4, and that was by giving each omnimech a set number of universal hardpoints, but even then, you could only swap weapons in the mechlab.

Retool an Omnimech, and you get a standard battlemech whose weapons cannot be hot-swapped in the field. Since we just established that you can't hot swap weapons in the field anyway, the penalty for modifying an omnimech's engine, structure or armor is kind of irrelevant.

[Karl Streiger]

Vanguard319, on 12 December 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

So what? The whole point of an Omnimech is to allow for easy field swapping of weapons and equipment, particularly if you need to swap out damaged or destroyed components. No mechwarrior game has ever demonstrated this ability ingame, since destroyed components remain destroyed, even if you have access to a repair bay during a mission. The only game that really tried to distinguish omnis from standard mechs was Mechwarrior 4, and that was by giving each omnimech a set number of universal hardpoints, but even then, you could only swap weapons in the mechlab.

I have hope - that the function that should be implemented that was named when they described Map Shuffle could be the ability to swap Omni Variants - directly on the Map - instead of choosing a Map of your Drop Deck?
So with 8 OmniMechs you may have 32 variants - while you have 8 Mechs.... (btw: i can fill nearly every role with 8 Mechs)

[Autobot9000]

Volt Opt Construct, on 11 December 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

I like how no one's even stated that the Warhawk can't fire it's quad ER PPC load out in an alpha in the first place, let alone the six originally proposed.

It's a good thing to have a loadout beyond your heat dissipation to allow for burst damage if you need to focus an opponent down. That's whats the problem of the inner sphere's Awesome. In BT the latter had 28 single heat sinks and 3 PPCs not quite allowing him to do much needed burst damage but allowed him to constantly do 30 damage. It's easy to rush a mech, that can not burst for self-defense. It's the same in BT and MWO, although in MWO the issue is clearly tougher.