100 replies to this topic

[pseudocoder]

I am looking for some thoughts on the possible impact of making ECM available on all variants.

(Please do not discuss alternative fixes to ECM, there is another thread for that.) ---> http://mwomercs.com/...has-ruined-mwo/

The arguments against ECM in its current state that I have personally found most compelling seem to revolve around being limited on the variants you can choose IF you want to use ECM. So why have that limitation?

I understand that as far as lore goes, ECM technology was only recovered from SLDF archives ~25 years ago. It's entirely plausible that Inner Sphere tech hasn't been able to evolve the Guardian into such a modular package yet (as to be interchangeable on any mech platform).

Maybe the plan is to wait until clans? According to Sarna.net, the clans have a 1 ton 1 critical Guardian ECM that can definitely be fitted to nearly any mech. So I don't think I'm reaching too far here.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECM_Suite

Any thoughts?

Edited by pseudocoder, 03 January 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[Mechteric]

It would be very bad, since then everyone would feel obliged to have it on their mech.

[GT Hawk]

NO!!!!!!!!!

[StalaggtIKE]

Yes.

If ECM stays in its current form, all mechs should be allowed to equip it.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 03 January 2013 - 12:15 PM.

[pseudocoder]

CapperDeluxe, on 03 January 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

It would be very bad, since then everyone would feel obliged to have it on their mech.

I wouldn't. I'm happy to leech ECM coverage off the guy next to me.

[Boss Awesome]

If ECM stays in its current form, no mechs should be allowed to equip it.

[Joseph Mallan]

I used to think so. But as potent as it is, i would be more inclined to see in only on Canon variants.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 January 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

I used to think so. But as potent as it is, i would be more inclined to see in only on Canon variants.

But canon is that everything in the clan arsenal can take one.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 03 January 2013 - 12:19 PM.

[siLve00]

yes but for any other mech it should use 13 crit slots... okay ?

[Joseph Mallan]

Yup and?

[PoLaR]

It's hard to say, as there are lots of pros and cons to having it on all Battlemechs and keeping It the way It Is.

Basically what I'm saying Is that I don't believe there Is a fully "right" answer. Also, everyone has different opinions, so It Is definitely a "grey" area. Interested in seeing what everyone thinks.

[pseudocoder]

siLve00, on 03 January 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

yes but for any other mech it should use 13 crit slots... okay ?

LOL...how about if it just takes up 13 crits, period? /troll

[Sean von Steinike]

No thanks. Canon only mechs please.

[Tastian]

There are no canon mechs on the battlefield as it is. I don't remember any canon Stalkers with 6 PPCs, or Catapults with 2 Gauss Rifles or Atlas with 325 engines. The only canon mechs are the trial mechs; how about we all drive those?

[Marcus Tanner]

CapperDeluxe, on 03 January 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

It would be very bad, since then everyone would feel obliged to have it on their mech.

They feel obliged to have it on their mech anyway. We might as well spice things up by letting everyone play their favorite mech without feeling like a liability.

If everyone has ECM, then there won't be any need to complain about one side having more of it and stomping the opposition as a result. We can just dump almost all of our streaks and LRMs and be on our way without them. LRM boats could use TAG against the slow guys to keep locks or have their spotters run counter when dueling lone enemies, like they do now. LRMs and streaks won't be useful for most of us, but they'll still have a small place in the game. It would be a much healthier game.

The devs like what the information denial does to gameplay, so they should just make the relevant effects pervasive and call it a day.

Ideally I would want them to take the effect they want form ECM and divorce that effect from ECM proper, making it standard gear on every mech.

StalaggtIKE, on 03 January 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

If ECM stays in its current form, all mechs should be allowed to equip it.

Boss Awesome, on 03 January 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

If ECM stays in its current form, no mechs should be allowed to equip it.

More to the point, but not helpful Boss.

[pseudocoder]

PoLaR, on 03 January 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

It's hard to say, as there are lots of pros and cons to having it on all Battlemechs and keeping It the way It Is.

Basically what I'm saying Is that I don't believe there Is a fully "right" answer. Also, everyone has different opinions, so It Is definitely a "grey" area. Interested in seeing what everyone thinks.

I agree that there is no magic bullet but there is no denying the fact that ECM is now an important part of gameplay. That being the case, in order to avoid certain mech variants being more important than others, the easiest solution seems to be to make all variants capable of having this important component. That was my line of reasoning anyway. I'm just looking for some good reasons why you would NOT want to do this.

Sean von Steinike, on 03 January 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

No thanks. Canon only mechs please.

Could you clarify which mechs would be able to equip Guardian based on canon? I wasn't able to find that information. Is it just the 4 that currently have it?

[Boss Awesome]

Alright, here is my stab at being helpful instead of snarky. ECM is too good right now in my opinion. Why not make electronics warfare a more active role? Instead of ECM giving a protection bubble, make it a targetted attack. ECM boat targets an LRM mech and activates it's ECM. The LRM mech and only that mech loses all it's targetting info and access to the mini map. Problem solved, and the game just got more fun too for the ECM pilots.

[Jakob Knight]

Boss Awesome, on 03 January 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

If ECM stays in its current form, no mechs should be allowed to equip it.

Either all or none, same as any equipment in the game. There is no reason a piece of equipment like this, uncounterable in any realistic sense by anything but itself, should not be available to all mechs. After all, if it isn't so OP as the people asking for major changes claim, then there is no problem with everyone having it. And if it is so OP, then allowing people to have the only workable defense against it is reasonable.

Now, I will say that if changes -that are viable- (TAG is not a viable counter for several reasons already well known) are made that will allow a mech to negate ECM used against it without having ECM itself, then this might not be necessary. The way things are now, though, this seems the only reasonable option. Especially since I remember certain devs claiming all technology would be available to all players.

[Rifter]

For sure it should be allowed in all mechs. Or be very heavily nerfed.

One of the main complaints among my friends who are no longer willing to try and drop 8 mans with me is they dont want to be shoehorned into one of the 4 ECM mechs to play 8 mans. Because be realistic people 8 mans turned into who brings the most ECM wins thats why no one plays it anymore. We tried 8 mans for a while and found that if you try and play 8 mans with a bring what you want type of mech you will loose alot, if you all drop in ECM mechs you will win alot.

Edited by Rifter, 03 January 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[pseudocoder]

Marcus Tanner, on 03 January 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Ideally I would want them to take the effect they want form ECM and divorce that effect from ECM proper, making it standard gear on every mech.

You had me till that last part, but please keep on topic of WHICH MECHS should be able to equip, not other ECM fixes (like making it builtin)

CYBRN4CR, on 03 January 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Really? You want ECM on all mechs?

Then get ready to have Streakapults, Gaussapults, Stalkers etc with ECM. And if you die by LRMs in that scenario, I won't even feel sorry for you.

I fail to grasp why that is a problem. Don't they just sit under a D-DC as it is? Also if they want ECM onboard they are going to have to dump two heatsinks or some gauss ammo. That's a good tradeoff IMO since I don't care if they have ECM when they're sniping me from 900m.

Edited by pseudocoder, 03 January 2013 - 12:44 PM.