97 replies to this topic

[RANSARI]

Mechwarriors, you know the routine. Hit it, while I put on some lounge muzak here.

[FrostCollar]

What feedback is there? It looks like ECM (and streaks) are the same as ever.

[arghmace]

My current thoughts on this issue:

http://mwomercs.com/...-think-of-them/

[ShadowSpirit]

LRM buff? ECM is still a requirement I see.

Thanks PGI!

[Sudden Reversal]

With the amount of suggestions that have been given to balance ECM you would think one of them would be good enough to stick.

Problem is either lack of desire, will or skill to implement.

Where is our promised 'tweaks' to ECM that will balance this aberration of a component?

Waiting with bated breath...

[Xenok]

As I have posted before.

Any mech that is gennerating an ECM jamming bubble should not be able to lock onto anything as long it generates the bubble. That change is very basic, and should have been implemented, IDK maybe the patch right after ECM was put out.

Its a bit rediculous to even have a thread on this now.

[StalaggtIKE]

The new modules are going to make things worse, for teams without ECM coverage. Their whole team is going to be lit up on the battlegrid map for easy targeting for artillery and airstrikes.

If they insist on keeping ECM the way it is, how about make it into a consumable module as well. This way it will be available for everyone. After all it is supposedly balanced with only a vocal minority of complainers.

Player skill is becoming less of a deciding factor. Instead it is what you bring that gives you the winning edge.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 05 March 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[wolf74]

I have come too think most of the problems are come from that ECM was the 1st electronic in the game; they didn't want it to do nothing so they gave it a all of power say with balance it the other electronics. The problem is Tag,Narc,Bap did not counter ecm but it the other way.

Have ecm remove the bonus from narc, tag , artimus fcs, sensors modules that it that's it's job. Once you remove the missile shields ecm gives you can debuff LRM damage, debuff SSRM damage.

Edited by wolf74, 05 March 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[Thuzel]

I still think ECM is much too powerful for it's weight and crit cost.

But aside from that, the main thing I've noticed lately is that ECM has almost destroyed indirect fire as a valid function of LRM use. Without an extremely skilled spotter, indirectly fired LRM's are somewhat ineffectual even when fired from a highly mobile and well placed mech (TBT-5J for example).

Outside of organized play, this has basically turned LRM's into slow, line of sight weapons. Most LRM boats I've seen have started hosting their own TAG, and in those cases where LRM's can be used via direct fire (with or without TAG), in most of those scenarios a real direct fire weapon would be much more useful and effective.

In a nutshell, ECM has mostly homogenized MWO into a direct fire game with only a few outside cases where indirect fire support works well. But everyone has their opinion...

[Skribs]

My suggestion was multiple items that each have part of what ECM currently does, and nerf slightly the power of ECM (and the ability to swap to counter mode), where you can only have one equipped. Also give more mechs ECM so that certain classes aren't so overpowered.

The problem is that ECM makes NARC and BAP useless, while severely nerfing the effects of LRM and streaks (among others).

[hercules1981]

I'm really not sure y people still think ECM is over powered. The adv. range sensor has given every1 a bigger range to hit those pesky 3Ls with streaks. Aside from the comment some1 has said about the artillery strikes and air strikes above all ECM did was make the easiest weapon in the game to use(LRMS) harder to use. Big deal so now every1 should learn how to aim. Guess that's to hard for most people to do in this game they just want to have a lock and hit a button. The biggest thing that bothers me about ECM is not being able to tell my teammates to attack, alpha, bravo, gamma ect.
My suggestion to help a balance(with all gibberish above aside) is to have a 1for all counter. So if I run into 3 ECM mechs with just myself I could counter all 3 so the # of a teams ECM would effect outcome just that little less.

Edited by hercules1981, 05 March 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[Hekalite]

I can appreciate that PGI thought that maybe state rewind would minimize the effectiveness of ECM mechs. Ok, so that happened. Fast moving mechs are still pretty damn hard to shoot. I still see a lot of Raven 3Ls playing the last man standing game. Now can we consider actually balancing the thing?

[Armando]

Hekalite, on 05 March 2013 - 06:11 PM, said:

I can appreciate that PGI thought that maybe state rewind would minimize the effectiveness of ECM mechs. Ok, so that happened. Fast moving mechs are still pretty damn hard to shoot. I still see a lot of Raven 3Ls playing the last man standing game. Now can we consider actually balancing the thing?

The 'next' balancing of ECM will be changes to the ECM varinats (Like was done with the 3M today). Once the Raven, Spider, and Commando's get their turns with the 'variant tweaks', if ECM is STILL an issue, then they 'might' look into it. If you are (or were) hoping for more than that I think you are going to be dissapointed.

I would like to add that the ONLY thing good about the 3M now is it can carry ECM. All the other Cicada's are now better than the 3M, and if you want to equip ECM you will do so in the most 'gimp' variant of the chassis. I expect that once the RVN, SPD, and COM get thier "variant tweaks'...they too will end up with the worst of everything (twist, turn, speed, etc.) when compared to other variants in the same chassis.

Many of us have said that there is no downside to equipping ECM...that is coming to an end. Raven / Commando pilots, enjoy it now because soon, the 3L and 2D are soon to be gimpped by 'variant tweaks'. You can carry ECM, or you can twist/turn, but you will soon not be able to do both.

[StalaggtIKE]

Armando, on 05 March 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

The 'next' balancing of ECM will be changes to the ECM varinats (Like was done with the 3M today). Once the Raven, Spider, and Commando's get their turns with the 'variant tweaks', if ECM is STILL an issue, then they 'might' look into it. If you are (or were) hoping for more than that I think you are going to be dissapointed.

I would like to add that the ONLY thing good about the 3M now is it can carry ECM. All the other Cicada's are now better than the 3M, and if you want to equip ECM you will do so in the most 'gimp' variant of the chassis. I expect that once the RVN, SPD, and COM get thier "variant tweaks'...they too will end up with the worst of everything (twist, turn, speed, etc.) when compared to other variants in the same chassis.

Many of us have said that there is no downside to equipping ECM...that is coming to an end. Raven / Commando pilots, enjoy it now because soon, the 3L and 2D are soon to be gimpped by 'variant tweaks'. You can carry ECM, or you can twist/turn, but you will soon not be able to do both.

I guess. I didn't necessarily feel gimped in my CDA-3M. In fact it felt exactly the same. Wasn't it like a 10% torso twist penalty? That's only 5% on each side, hardly anything to worry about.

The issue with ECM is not the mechs, it's the device itself. I wish the devs would strip the stealth nonsense and get rid of all the bogus counters, like 750m TAG and PPC that only effect ECM. Thanks to ECM, role warfare is screwed up. We have scouts leading charges, LRM boats marking their own targets and Assaults sneaking around the battlefield. PPC is gimped into a ECM counter instead of a true EMP that disrupts HUDs. But they couldn't do that because ECM is at the center of every development now. For instance there was a big stink about the new hero mech, due to a rumor it was getting ECM. If ECM was balanced then there wouldn't have been a issue.

Edited by StalaggtIKE, 05 March 2013 - 08:29 PM.

[Armando]

@StalaggtIKE

In addition to the torso twist nerf, Acceleration went down 10% for the 3M while ALL the other variants were buffed. There is now a clear and decisive disadvantage to taking the ECM variant of the Cicada.

I have a feeling the RVN-3L is going to get hit hard by the 'variant tweaks', and expect torso twist range, torso twist speed, AND overall turning rate will all be nerfed, while the 2X and 4X's will both be buffed...same for the commando. People wanted there to be a clear drawback to rolling in a ECM mech, and if they do this...there will be.

Is it what you want to happen??? Likely not.
Is it what is going to happen??? It is looking that way.

[ExAstris]

I don't have anything nice left to say. I've given incredible amounts of time and constructive feedback. Waited patiently for months while the arguments and facts against ECM mounted. Nothing.

Either this **** gets fixed or I will simply never give a damn about this game again. Its too disheartening to see and I've already not played in over a week. Didn't even remember there was new content today. Never even thought about opening the launcher to update the client. I went straight to the patch notes, saw no changes for ECM, then launched a different game.

I have never seen anything so horrendously detrimental to a game go so unbearably long without mention or action. At least in Closed Beta our balance suggestions seemed to make a difference. LRMs got trajectory changes every other week, SRMs got flightpathing changes within a month. All missiles had their damage numbers tweaked on a weekly basis to compensate for their behavior changes. Engine restrictions got put in within a month of the 130kph swaybacks and 200kph commandos.

What happened? This game use to improve in quantity and quality. Now the quality has been (and by the look of the MC consumable design, is continuing) on a decline.

[Ghostbear Gurdel]

I wonder if it is even worth typing this, but please fix the ECM. It should NOT be this powerful.

[Haitchpeasauce]

I'm sure PGI and all of us are sick to death of hearing this.

But just one more time!

ECM is broken and unbalanced from a game design perspective because the only full-counter to ECM is another ECM. This makes ECM carrying mechs the favoured ones (3L Raven anyone?).

PPCs and TAG are not hard counters, they are highly conditional in their ability to counter ECM, and therefore not proper counters. There should not be multiple partial-counters to ECM and then a single full-counter to ECM being ECM itself.

For people about to say "ECM is not broken" ... yes, it works exactly like PGI designed it. We know that. The design is flawed. Seriously flawed.

The other flaw is that ECM mechs can boat SSRM, while nullifying non-ECM mechs who have SSRM. Also unbalanced.

SSRM needs fixing.
ECM needs fixing.

[Umbra8]

Enters.

Sees ECM is unchanged.

Leaves, door does not hit a$$ on way out.

[Thorqemada]

ECM is still the same as last patch and therefore my point of view is unchanged - its fundamentally unbalanced and an "Anti PUG Measure".

Edited by Thorqemada, 06 March 2013 - 01:40 AM.