36 replies to this topic

[Raso]

^{Before I even start, I am a frequent user of the No Guts No Galaxy Team Speak servers. Since I first started using it I almost never play with out logging in and looking for a group anymore. Almost never....}

So every so often I don't feel like booting up my Team Speak and I just want to destroy some robots. Every time I do that I'm faced with the glaring realization that this game's lack of in game community support features have a serious negative impact on the game. It's sad when a game like CoD has better community tools than MWO especially when you consider that MWO is supposed to have a heavy team focus while, by many people's assertions, CoD is where "leet" D-bags go to pwn noobs (a game where a single player regularly will get more kills than the rest of the players combined).

Switching from Team Speak to PUGing really shows just how much of second class citizens those poor saps are. Now this might be my bleeding, liberal heart speaking but it's really not entirely their fault. Lets say you drop with a good crew and you had fun with them. Where do you go to join up with them? There's no list of recent players, heck you can't even form a team mid game! Another issue is the lack of in game chat while not on a mission. It's great that you can form a team, and everything, but unless you are using Team Speak how are you going to actually FIND a team?

One good start would be to employ a global chat system (text, not voice) when in the hanger. Set it up with different channels, like general, help, LFG and so on. Heck there's even money to potentially be made here (cuz we all know that PGI loves selling us stuff)! What if you let people pay MC to create and host their own clan channels on your global chat servers? That could help to off set the cost of dealing with the higher bandwidth traffic you'd have to deal with from all that text chat.

There should also be a way to set up a team in game. Frankly the way in which we've dealt with teams fighting PUGs has been ridiculous, the more I think about it. We've always considered that people who PUG are some sort of 3rd rate pilots or 2nd class citizens for not using Team Speak. Not once did it dawn on people that maybe they simply lack the tools to create and join teams, that some of these guys and gals are actually more than targets for a 4 man team's amusement but actual players who simply don't have in game tools to look for and join groups. No everyone knows about Team Speak and certainly not everyone listens to the pod casts or knows who No Guts No Galaxy or some of the other fine people who host MWO Team Speak servers and I'm sure there are those out there who simply don't want to deal with having to install a 3rd party chat program just to play an online game.

I know.... I know... It's still beta. But these are very basic components to a game. Frankly I'm astonished that there wasn't a better built in community system ready to roll when OB launched. I mean PGI is doing such a great job designing new mechs for us to spend MC on so you'd think that they would have the technical know how to design some sort of better chat system.


_{Hmmm since this isn't a topic complaining about ECM or the new pay out system or 6 ER PPC Stalkers will anyone even read the post? I have my doubts...}

Edited by Raso, 04 January 2013 - 09:28 AM.

[Agent of Change]

Well you are right to worry since complaining about LRM's is this weeks Primary topic and ECm is next weeks, your issue would seem to fit the primary topic of either the third weeks of January or Febuary. Verify here

That said you make some good points, but i would prefer not to get into a big discussion right now lest I undermine the legitimacy of the schedule....

[Budor]

Raso, on 04 January 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

One good start would be to employ a global chat system (text, not voice) when in the hanger. Set it up with different channels, like general, help, LFG and so on.

This would also help immensly with the new player expirience. Theres tons of people that would love to give advice to new players in a chat channel dedicated to this.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Budor, on 04 January 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

This would also help immensly with the new player expirience. Theres tons of people that would love to give advice to new players in a chat channel dedicated to this.

Do what I (and a lot of people do) post a question in here, play a couple rounds, then look back in here, play a couple more.... Problem is solved if you just think about how to get answers in the best way possible.

[Raso]

Budor, on 04 January 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

This would also help immensly with the new player expirience. Theres tons of people that would love to give advice to new players in a chat channel dedicated to this.

I agree. This is a good community and I think that when you're PUGing against other PUGs or get set up against a good 4 man team it's easy to form resentment towards the community as being full of either silent elitists or loud mouthed team killers or complainers. Most veteran members of the community want to see new players get better and get started. We want to see the community thrive. Most people who play this game love giant robots or have a long history with Mech Warrior and we want to be able to share it with others. We want the community to grow and we want the newest members of the game to have a good experience.

[Raso]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 January 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

Do what I (and a lot of people do) post a question in here, play a couple rounds, then look back in here, play a couple more.... Problem is solved if you just think about how to get answers in the best way possible.

Not optimal. While there's nothing wrong with creating a forum topic for advice there's a different dynamic when yo can talk to people, in real time, and get answers from them. For starters you'll see how many people are willing to help you out, and that helps to show how good of a community we have. That aside, you might be offered to team up and work with some one to help set you on the right path. That helps to build the community and that keeps players around longer. When players are around longer and become more invested in the game they'll be more willing to spend MC. It's a much safer long term goal than "sucker a few new guys into buying premium time or an Atlas then never see them again after a month"

[KuruptU4Fun]

Raso, on 04 January 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Not optimal. While there's nothing wrong with creating a forum topic for advice there's a different dynamic when yo can talk to people, in real time, and get answers from them. For starters you'll see how many people are willing to help you out, and that helps to show how good of a community we have. That aside, you might be offered to team up and work with some one to help set you on the right path. That helps to build the community and that keeps players around longer. When players are around longer and become more invested in the game they'll be more willing to spend MC. It's a much safer long term goal than "sucker a few new guys into buying premium time or an Atlas then never see them again after a month"

In this scenario you have 3 choices:

Type in a question using the in game chat and hope you get a response from at least 1 of 16 people.

Go into a TS channel and use it to find your answer from (as an estimate) around 100+ people...

Ask your question in this forum and get an answer from 100+ people.

You find information by using as many resources as possible.

People who are in game and in TS servers are also splitting their attention because they are trying to play the same game you are. People here are waiting for their own questions to be answered or to comment on statements being made already. But in here you only have to ask your question once and wait for a response. The other two places you're going to be repeating yourself many times before you get a good general answer.

While I agree you're eventually going to find a group that is willing to bring you into their fold and show you real time. It's just as likely that you will get a PM from someone inviting you to join them as well. I keep telling my kids that you never turn your back on a resource that can give you information. Whether you ask me, go to the library or find your answer on the internet; to date they still don't listen to that advice.

[Raso]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 January 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I keep telling my kids that you never turn your back on a resource that can give you information.

Which is exactly why we need more resources. In game chat allows you to ask your question and resolve it with out having to leave the game. It opens the possibly of being able to walk through it right then and there. It allows the friendliness and helpfulness of the game's community to be on full display in real time.

Making a post on the forums breaks that up. You have to remove yourself from the game and you have to wait for a reply (if any). Granted you might receive much more detailed responses but odds are that you won't always be asking for the formulaic equation used to determine heat generation. It might be something as simple as "Why don't my PPCs deal any damage up close" or "why does my UAC5 not have ammo? I put in several tons of AC5 ammo".

Asking for help aside, simply being able to join in a conversation with other gamers can help to make you feel part of the community. It can help you make friends and what not. And not everyone wants to use team speak and, frankly, this is the 21st century and games are more advanced than ever so there's no excuse to have to boot up a 3rd party program just to interact with other people in an online game.

[Budor]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 January 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Type in a question using the in game chat and hope you get a response from at least 1 of 16 people.

This game is to fast paced to really help with questions regarding the mechlab, mech choice or loadouts during a match.

How would it be more benefical or time efficient to ask something game related in the forum rather than ingame?

The amount of people just playing a game online is much higher than the % of people visiting its forum or being on ts whilst playing it. Asking for a ingame chat is not that much...we are not talking integrated voip or moderated helpchat here.

Edited by Budor, 04 January 2013 - 10:12 AM.

[Hobo Dan]

After the Netcode, I believe this is one of the most pressing issues MWO faces right now. Building a strong community is key to longevity, imo.

I think a lot more PUGers would be grouping up if all they had to do was get into the in-game LFG chat for a few mins. Some people just don't want to get on TS, Vent, etc.

[KuruptU4Fun]

I'm going with what the title of this thread states and what we currently have as resources, I refuse to make this a "I wish we had this in the game" line of responses.

Budor, on 04 January 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

This game is to fast paced to really help with questions regarding the mechlab, mech choice or loadouts during a match.

How would it be more benefical or time efficient to ask something game related in the forum rather than ingame?

The amount of people just playing a game online is much higher than the % of people visiting its forum or being on ts whilst playing it. Asking for a ingame chat is not that much...we are not talking integrated voip or moderated helpchat here.

Since there is no current "in client forum; help chat box" the only way you're going to be asking questions is while you're in a match. So Budor you're right, it's futile to ask while playing in a match. That now limits the 3 resources I stated above to 2 more realistic ones. The amount of people in a TS server and in a forum. While in a match it's a bit difficult to concentrate on playing and waiting for a response from others to your question. So you're either waiting in the TS server or playing the game, thus limiting your opportunity to the best option available; the forums here. You can post a question in forum and check it from time to time, much like I am now. My concentration being primarily in-game, but communicating with you and others for a few minutes. I can also use the Alt-Tab option to minimize the game and check these forums once I die...

[Raso]

Hobo Dan, on 04 January 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

After the Netcode, I believe this is one of the most pressing issues MWO faces right now. Building a strong community is key to longevity, imo.

I think a lot more PUGers would be grouping up if all they had to do was get into the in-game LFG chat for a few mins. Some people just don't want to get on TS, Vent, etc.

It would be nice if they could do both at the same time. Net code will, no doubt, be an ever and ongoing deal as the game grows and the features expand. The added bandwidth of some sort of lobby or mechbay chat system combined with the idea of people teaming up and ACTUALLY using the built in voice chat will now doubt cause that much more stress on the servers.

[Havyek]

Almost all of the requests for communication tools (other than VOIP) in the game could be solved by creating a lobby.

Not just of the 16 people that are dropping, but of the 2500+ people that are logged in currently.

There's no reason that almost every other MMO can have group, guild, region, server, market etc etc chat and MWO is restricted to LAUNCH then maybe talk to someone.

[Kraven Kor]

I think many of us have pretty much been saying this for a while.

[Raso]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 January 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

I'm going with what the title of this thread states and what we currently have as resources, I refuse to make this a "I wish we had this in the game" line of responses.


Since there is no current "in client forum; help chat box" the only way you're going to be asking questions is while you're in a match. So Budor you're right, it's futile to ask while playing in a match. That now limits the 3 resources I stated above to 2 more realistic ones. The amount of people in a TS server and in a forum. While in a match it's a bit difficult to concentrate on playing and waiting for a response from others to your question. So you're either waiting in the TS server or playing the game, thus limiting your opportunity to the best option available; the forums here. You can post a question in forum and check it from time to time, much like I am now. My concentration being primarily in-game, but communicating with you and others for a few minutes. I can also use the Alt-Tab option to minimize the game and check these forums once I die...

The entire point of my first post is to state that it's not enough. If you think that there is no need for better in game community features I'd be quite interested to hear why you think that but if that's not the case your argument confuses me.

We all know that we have the forums to call upon for information, we all know that there are several unofficial Team Speak servers dedicated to this game entirely and we all know that an in game chat lobby does not guarantee that your help questions are answered. But none of that is a good argument for not incorporating and improving upon the game's in game community features

A chat lobby you can access in the mech bay, where you can look for a group, participate in various conversations about the game and the IP's world or even ask for advice would be such a huge step building a better game it's not even funny. I foresee many PUGers joining teams for the first time, people adding their first friend to their friends lists and maybe even a reduction in flamer and machine gun use!

The feature could add so much and yet there is almost no harm it could do.

[KuruptU4Fun]

BDU Havoc, on 04 January 2013 - 11:00 AM, said:

Almost all of the requests for communication tools (other than VOIP) in the game could be solved by creating a lobby.

Not just of the 16 people that are dropping, but of the 2500+ people that are logged in currently.

There's no reason that almost every other MMO can have group, guild, region, server, market etc etc chat and MWO is restricted to LAUNCH then maybe talk to someone.

Realistically the likely likely hood of a room of 2500+ people whose primary desire is to get in and out of matches lessens the possibility of some one seeing and answering your question when you ask it 1 time. Comparatively when you ask that same question in a static place like this forum, that likely hood increases.

Raso, on 04 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

The entire point of my first post is to state that it's not enough. If you think that there is no need for better in game community features I'd be quite interested to hear why you think that but if that's not the case your argument confuses me.

We all know that we have the forums to call upon for information, we all know that there are several unofficial Team Speak servers dedicated to this game entirely and we all know that an in game chat lobby does not guarantee that your help questions are answered. But none of that is a good argument for not incorporating and improving upon the game's in game community features

A chat lobby you can access in the mech bay, where you can look for a group, participate in various conversations about the game and the IP's world or even ask for advice would be such a huge step building a better game it's not even funny. I foresee many PUGers joining teams for the first time, people adding their first friend to their friends lists and maybe even a reduction in flamer and machine gun use!

The feature could add so much and yet there is almost no harm it could do.

A chat lobby would still be constrictive, as the only way you're going to be chatting with 2500+ without putting a lot more strain on the servers is to do so with a keyboard only. Once you're in a group in said lobby how are you effectively going to chat in game? By using a VoiP program. Arguably any 3rd party VoiP program is better than an in game one, TS being at the top of the list when it comes to choices. An in-game VoiP would put massive data loads on the servers.

Any sort of in game lobby is also susceptible to server failure at the same time the game is running, 3rd party VoiP isn't. Currently PGI uses the same servers for this forum as the game one. But what I see is that they are at least segregated as to the few times when the game servers had crashed but the forums were working. The only time I've seen is where both don't work when PGI is patching the server.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 04 January 2013 - 11:18 AM.

[Raso]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Realistically the likely likely hood of a room of 2500+ people whose primary desire is to get in and out of matches lessens the possibility of some one seeing and answering your question when you ask it 1 time. Comparatively when you ask that same question in a static place like this forum, that likely hood increases.

Then you break it up into smaller rooms. You partition out the rooms into themes, like the LFG Channel, General Chat Channel, New Pilots Channel and so on. This means that poeple in help are either looking for help or looking to give out help (possibly to earn some points with the community and find recruits).

Now after a room has filled to, say, 60 to 70 people, you create a new channel (like General Chat 1, General Chat 2 and so on) and would then set the hard cap for each channel at about 100 users. If you are allowed to browse the member lists of each channel you could then switch to a channel and join up with other players you know or choose a less cramped room. This isn't anything new lots of MMOs use a similar system to prevent crowding in chat rooms.

I'm sorry, but none of your arguments against better integrated community features add up. They sound like the arguments that an old man who is afraid of change would use against iPhones, or something.

[Raso]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 January 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

A chat lobby would still be constrictive, as the only way you're going to be chatting with 2500+ without putting a lot more strain on the servers is to do so with a keyboard only. Once you're in a group in said lobby how are you effectively going to chat in game? By using a VoiP program. Arguably any 3rd party VoiP program is better than an in game one, TS being at the top of the list when it comes to choices. An in-game VoiP would put massive data loads on the servers.

Any sort of in game lobby is also susceptible to server failure at the same time the game is running, 3rd party VoiP isn't. Currently PGI uses the same servers for this forum as the game one. But what I see is that they are at least segregated as to the few times when the game servers had crashed but the forums were working. The only time I've seen is where both don't work when PGI is patching the server.

Did you know there is actually an in game voice chat system that only works when you are in a team? Not many do (even more have probably never been in a team). What would happen if, suddenly, people started using the in game voice chat? PGI might have to upgrade servers and that would cost them money! Oh noes! But that's not my problem, nor is it yours. They sell us mechs and they get money for that so they can use that money to upgrade servers, or something. They're smart, they'll figure it out. Yeah Team Speak is way better but not everyone wants to use it and that is their choice. The game has a built in voice chat system so it might as well be used.

Now your argument that an in game chat lobby is susceptible to game crashes..... is that actually an argument or are you just stating a fact because I'm not sure how that is an argument. A chat lobby is more than just a place to cry for help. It's also a place to meet new people and look for team mates. If the severs are down you won't be needing to look for a group, now will you. And as you have pointed out several times the forums are right here waiting for us!

[KuruptU4Fun]

Your argument Raso is for what you think PGI should do in order for the community to expand. My argument is for people to use the resources available now, because it is what we have to use now. There is no announcement as to when PGI will implement any such suggestions you and others are making. If people use the resources available now the community and communication grows now, it doesn't have to wait for something that may never happen.

[Raso]

KuruptU4Fun, on 04 January 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Your argument Raso is for what you think PGI should do in order for the community to expand. My argument is for people to use the resources available now, because it is what we have to use now. There is no announcement as to when PGI will implement any such suggestions you and others are making. If people use the resources available now the community and communication grows now, it doesn't have to wait for something that may never happen.

When people said LRMs were OP we got them nerfed. When people said the TAG was unless it got a boost to range. The only way for them to know that something is wrong or that there is a desire for a change is to make it known. The state of the in game community features is unacceptable for an online game and PGI must know that there are people who think so.

The point of my initial post was not to look for ways to better utilize what little in game community features we have, it was an assessment of the lack of in game community features with a list of suggestions. You comments, while not untrue, provide little to those ends. I'm fairly certain everyone here knows you can use Team Speak and that the forums are at our disposal.

These are basic things that the game really should have by now and it reflects poorly upon the game that they are not there. Every new player who PUGs around for several games, with no clue how to play or how to find a team could very well be one more potential, long term player lost. Don't you think it's sad that a game as good looking, as competitive and as complex as Mech Warrior Online lacks even the most basic in game community features? Don't you think it's a bit of an oversight that a game with such a strong focus on team work makes it so hard to actually make a team with out a 3rd party program? I mean at this point they might as well list the No Guts no Galaxy Team Speak server info right on the client's landing page with a link to download the latest Team Speak Client but they won't because that's just embarrassing, it's admitting you put too little effort into your community features.