140 replies to this topic

[Loonix]

MadSavage, on 05 January 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

The whining on these forums needs to stop. I honestly hope PGI isn't taking it all seriously.

ECM IS NOT BROKEN

4-MANS AREN'T RUINING THE GAME

LAG MAKES LIGHT MECHS VIABLE

- Without lag, light mechs would be totally unusable. It currently only takes a few medium laser blasts to drop their CT armor when they're standing still, so what's to stop that from happening when net-code is fixed and we have no lag issues?

ECM is not broken, but we do need modules and components to counter it in its current state. I've heard it said of the air-force that "there are stealth planes and there are targets"; Information warfare in Mech warrior is currently one sided. The only component in the pudding currently is ECM, and you either have it or you don't.

4 man's are not single-handedly ruining the game, but we are still waiting for a proper matchmaker. And I would attest from personal experience that teaming up with just one friend makes a ridiculous difference to results.

Lights absolutely do not need friggin lag shields to be viable. They need skilled pilots, and I'll consider anything else tantamount to heresy ... Back in closed beta we didn't have this crazy lag shield... and we had knock downs. Piloting a light meant risk/reward. And there were some simply incredible light pilots; people who learnt how close they could get to other mechs (and buildings), used throttle properly and expertly navigated packed battlefields delivering death as they went. People who planned proper ambushes... people we all had amazing fights with, and occasionally raged at!. For myself piloting a light was a thrilling experience, where a lapse in concentration meant getting one-shot by as gauss cat.

Sorry to be a ***** but a lot of the light pilots these days... half their tactics involve exploiting lag and the lack of collisions. When lag is gone and collisions return, then you'll see whiners, as half the light pilots complain they cant run between an Atlas' legs any more and teleport to the other side.

Finally; some members are whining unreasonably, to the point of trolling maybe. But many of them are legitimate, we should try to be constructive, and consider why people are getting these opinions in the first place? If someone doesn't enjoy the game, it helps no one if they continue to feel that way. Occasionally, I see some people replying with what can only be considered fan boy comments. In an already negative thread, fanboys are just as usefull as trolls

[Serapth]

Stone Wall, on 05 January 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

ECM has stopped LRM spam. Thank god.

And streak using on non-ECM mech. While adding an invisibility cloak to the game for the team with more ECM.

Quote

4 man groups...what is wrong with team play?

Nothing, let 4 man groups play other 4man groups. Or put one on each side. What's wrong with given one team a massive advantage over the other... just about everything. Plus the complete lack of communication tools in the game further handicap more casual players.

Quote

Lag made light mechs OP in MechWarrior 3, but I don't see much lag in this game.

That's because people are using the terms lag to describe bad net code. One exasperates the other, but they are not mutually exclusive.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Discussions about the Posting population and how they whine belong in the Off Topic section of the forums, whereas game-related Discussions can feel at-home in General Discussion.

Is this a thread about whining, or a thread about the game?

If it's a thread about the Game, in the General Discussion area, then it would have to contain less content regarding people talking about whiny posters.

[Serapth]

Prosperity Park, on 05 January 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

Is this a thread about whining

Yes.

With a meta-conversation about why people whine and if they are or are not justified.

[BerryChunks]

You know what else would make Light mechs "viable"? Limiting mass weapon loadouts with hard restrictions via limited numbers, instead of trying to limit it by nerfing heat sinks, which players will just find a way around any (alpha striking 6x6SRM 6xPPC mechs).

But that's too sensible. Better to keep screwing with heat mechanics than do the obvious.

at 97 kph, the commando can avoid damage a lot with good piloting, so no, lag shields aren't needed.

Edited by BerryChunks, 05 January 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Stone Wall]

Serapth, on 05 January 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

Nothing, let 4 man groups play other 4man groups. Or put one on each side. What's wrong with given one team a massive advantage over the other... just about everything. Plus the complete lack of communication tools in the game further handicap more casual players.

Playing as a team of 4 is not an auto win.

[Serapth]

BerryChunks, on 05 January 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

You know what else would make Light mechs "viable"? Limiting mass weapon loadouts with hard restrictions via limited numbers, instead of trying to limit it by nerfing heat sinks, which players will just find a way around any (alpha striking 6x6SRM 6xPPC mechs).

But that's too sensible. Better to keep screwing with heat mechanics than do the obvious.

at 97 kph, the commando can avoid damage a lot with good piloting, so no, lag shields aren't needed.

Yeah, I kinda thought that would be the easiest fix to streakcats. Limit to 3 SSRMs on a mech. You can still play a streak build, just cant cross the line into total cheese ville.

Stone Wall, on 05 January 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Playing as a team of 4 is not an auto win.

No, but it's pretty damned close. It's the most overpowered advantage in the game, far more than ECM.

[Bors Mistral]

MadSavage, on 05 January 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

ECM is implemented as it is in the lore.

Really? You might wish to consult your lore again - most people seem to be under the impression that the current MWO implementation is like the good parts of Guardian ECM, Angel ECM and some of Null Signature System rolled into one neat package.

There is no denying that the ECM you get at the moment is the most powerful piece of equipment in the game. BAP, TAG, JJ and NARC are not even in the same league, and not only because TAG is the only one of the bunch currently worth taking.

[DeadOnAim]

Bors Mistral, on 05 January 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

Really? You might wish to consult your lore again - most people seem to be under the impression that the current MWO implementation is like the good parts of Guardian ECM, Angel ECM and some of Null Signature System rolled into one neat package.

There is no denying that the ECM you get at the moment is the most powerful piece of equipment in the game. BAP, TAG, JJ and NARC are not even in the same league, and not only because TAG is the only one of the bunch currently worth taking.

^This guy. He's correct.

[Kristov Kerensky]

To the OP..all but 1 of your points I agree with you on.

Lagshield and Lights, or actually, the netcode, hitbox issues and serverside auth, the 3 things which people actually confuse for lag due to not actually having a clue, which is generally not their fault, they neither work in IT or play online games where their latency actually matters, ie - almost every single MMO and FPS on the market currently..almost, but not all You yourself OP, and your sibkin in SJ, seem to also not understand this difference, but that's understandable.

PGI has acknowledged the netcode, hitbox and serverside auth issues, it's NOT WAI and it is being worked on to fix the different parts of the problem. Relying on not WAI factors and saying that they are required..THAT is sure sign of bad gaming skills and the resultant eagerness to exploit in order to win at any cost. Now, once PGI gets the factors involved in the lagshield fixed, we'll see who stays in the Lights and who moves up to larger Mechs with more armor. I don't think the roaming hordes of Raven 3Ls we see in 8mans will last long, even against other Raven hordes, the fights will be short.

Oh, and once collisions are back...yeah...

And, a personal note to the SJ...as a guy who ran a league for the MW games, every single SJ would be banned as of this moment due to what was posted by the OP and the other SJ in this thread. Winning obviously means more to SJ then anything else, up to and including promoting using exploits to win. Anything this team does will from this point on be looked at from a tainted point of view and the hassles that will cause are simply not worth dealing with.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

And, a personal note to the SJ...as a guy who ran a league for the MW games, every single SJ would be banned as of this moment due to what was posted by the OP and the other SJ in this thread. Winning obviously means more to SJ then anything else, up to and including promoting using exploits to win. Anything this team does will from this point on be looked at from a tainted point of view and the hassles that will cause are simply not worth dealing with.

What are you even talking about? Promoting exploiting?

SJ SCP Wolf, on 05 January 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

You assume too much. We actually don't really use ECM or even light mechs in our 4 and 8 mans. On the rare occasion we do, it's usually just one. Our guys don't play cookie cutter droplists.

We don't even use lag shielded light mechs or ECM spam, or LRM spam. Or any other stacked nonsense. So where again are we advocating using exploits to win? We're telling people you don't need those crutches to win. Though l pity the day light mechs pilots lose their shield unless they see a survivability buff.

[Romaules]

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

To the OP..all but 1 of your points I agree with you on.

Lagshield and Lights, or actually, the netcode, hitbox issues and serverside auth, the 3 things which people actually confuse for lag due to not actually having a clue, which is generally not their fault, they neither work in IT or play online games where their latency actually matters, ie - almost every single MMO and FPS on the market currently..almost, but not all You yourself OP, and your sibkin in SJ, seem to also not understand this difference, but that's understandable.

PGI has acknowledged the netcode, hitbox and serverside auth issues, it's NOT WAI and it is being worked on to fix the different parts of the problem. Relying on not WAI factors and saying that they are required..THAT is sure sign of bad gaming skills and the resultant eagerness to exploit in order to win at any cost. Now, once PGI gets the factors involved in the lagshield fixed, we'll see who stays in the Lights and who moves up to larger Mechs with more armor. I don't think the roaming hordes of Raven 3Ls we see in 8mans will last long, even against other Raven hordes, the fights will be short.

Oh, and once collisions are back...yeah...

And, a personal note to the SJ...as a guy who ran a league for the MW games, every single SJ would be banned as of this moment due to what was posted by the OP and the other SJ in this thread. Winning obviously means more to SJ then anything else, up to and including promoting using exploits to win. Anything this team does will from this point on be looked at from a tainted point of view and the hassles that will cause are simply not worth dealing with.

i think you need to read http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/

[MadSavage]

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Lagshield and Lights, or actually, the netcode, hitbox issues and serverside auth, the 3 things which people actually confuse for lag due to not actually having a clue, which is generally not their fault, they neither work in IT or play online games where their latency actually matters, ie - almost every single MMO and FPS on the market currently..almost, but not all You yourself OP, and your sibkin in SJ, seem to also not understand this difference, but that's understandable.

Thanks for stating the obvious No we're not and never were confused but I guess you were. You have no clue about me or us.

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

And, a personal note to the SJ...as a guy who ran a league for the MW games, every single SJ would be banned as of this moment due to what was posted by the OP and the other SJ in this thread. Winning obviously means more to SJ then anything else, up to and including promoting using exploits to win. Anything this team does will from this point on be looked at from a tainted point of view and the hassles that will cause are simply not worth dealing with.

Nice vendetta against a bunch of guys that like to play stompy mechs together for fun. Not sure what you have against me or the team, but winning is a side-effect of enjoying and getting good at a game. No exploits were mentioned and I'm sorry you're losing.

[sj mausgmr]

Marcus Tanner, on 05 January 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

You didn't actually read my garbage about my pro missile skillz did you? The scout engages the enemy mech and forces it out of cover if it want to keep moving. That's why the missiles hit.

It's not the missiles, it's the mech they're brawling with keeping them from using cover effectively.

Nope, a pilot with a clue doesn't get 'forced out of cover' by some light mech plinking him and get caught in an idiotic circle fight, which opens his line of engagement up to missile units, and thus puts him at risk from high damage LRM salvo's. Circle fighting is stupid fighting, and the fastest way to loose your mech in any mechwarrior game.

Every assault/heavy/medium has more front armour than any light, thus, as long as the mech can hit the light effectively from it's position, it shouldn't need to move. The temptation is of course there, but only inexperienced pilots will react to it.

I have experience bro, lot's of it. You're arm chair generaling. It may make sense in your head, but it's counterable, just like most things are in Mechwarrior.

[MadSavage]

DeadOnAim, on 05 January 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

^This guy. He's correct.

ECM is the only piece of equipment worth taking because most players are susceptible to its effects. If pugs had better situational awarness then it wouldn't be as dramatic.

[sj mausgmr]

Kristov Kerensky, on 05 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

To the OP..all but 1 of your points I agree with you on.

Lagshield and Lights, or actually, the netcode, hitbox issues and serverside auth, the 3 things which people actually confuse for lag due to not actually having a clue, which is generally not their fault, they neither work in IT or play online games where their latency actually matters, ie - almost every single MMO and FPS on the market currently..almost, but not all You yourself OP, and your sibkin in SJ, seem to also not understand this difference, but that's understandable.

Actually it's an issue with the engine, and the types of weapon code they use for the weapon systems in the game. I know this because I've worked on weapon development before within another mechwarrior game using the crysis engine, so I'm pretty clued up on this. If they did what MWLL does and use client side laser code instead of bloody server side rocket/bullet code, we wouldn't have the issues we have today with having to overlead lights with lasers.

There is still clear issues with latency however, and how it misinforms the player about the position of an enemy unit on the battlefield. This couples together to form a perfect fail of return information for the player, as he shoots his laser one way, misses the target but hits it according to the crosshair, but does no damage according to the indicator.

And in regards to us in your MW whatever community, we're not in it, so irrelevant point is irrelevant. The only thing that matters here is in game conduct, because this is mechwarrior online, not forum warrior online.

Edited by sj mausgmr, 05 January 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Suicidal Idiot]

Felix, on 05 January 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

1.5 tons, the same as an AMS unit, which it does everything it does and more.

Lots more, as ECM has infinite ammo.

[Jukebox1986]

HouseCat, on 05 January 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Sorry to be a ***** but a lot of the light pilots these days... half their tactics involve exploiting lag and the lack of collisions. When lag is gone and collisions return, then you'll see whiners, as half the light pilots complain they cant run between an Atlas' legs any more and teleport to the other side.

Cant agree more. I´ll wait for the day collisions come back in the game. Yes, we will see a lot of so called "tactics" like dragonbowling, but besides that...

...people will pilot much better after a while.
...no one will try to hug your atlas to avoid dmg.
...many light pilots will go play larger mechs because they fall and get one-shot a lot

I hope they fix the lagshield too, but i also can understand the fear of many light-pilots to get "nerved" to the point of beeing unable to stand against larger mechs. No one wants Assaultwarrior Online.

[Mycrus]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 January 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Yes cause I can still see them with heat vision and do damage to them with my Gauss ERPPC combo while they close. As can my team.

Okay from now on ill run ecm farming drops everytime...

Did i mention that 90% of the guys i roll with have 300ms ping?

Good luck trying to use DF weapons!

/sarcasm...

[Rushin Roulette]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 05 January 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Savage is a better player than most of you could ever dream to be (and so am I). I also agree with him.

1. ECM is fine. L2P
2. 4 mans are awesome, if you don't have friends, make some you socially awkward penguin.
3. Current lights, lag is the only thing that keeps them alive. Until they are properly addressed the lag shield is needed.

Umm... OK... if you think so....

1. ECM is deffinitely overpowered for the weight and critslots it uses. The Devs have already stated that they are looking into it. Lets just wait and see what they come up with. Fact is that the stone/scissor/paper theory doesnt work with ECM. This system is at least stone and scissor and makes paper more or less redundant for many weapon systems.

2. L2Argument. Being rude to someone isnt really any reply, nor does it make in any way sence in context. Playing solo, in 4 man groups or in 8 man groups is something each player must decide for themselves. I myself much prefere playing in 4 or 8 man groups... but I wont criticize anyone who deosnt wish to... The most I would do is point them in the direction of finding a group.

3. Fixing the netcode and re-implementing knockdowns would just lead to scouts haveing to play smarter. Stupid Lights who run through an enemy group expecting everythign to miss will end up faceplanting. Lights using their speed, small size and dexterity to their advantage by staying behind another mech and out of shot range will still be racking up kills and deal loads of damage.

Saying the netcode is the only thing keeping Lights alive only shows that you have absolutely no idea how to actually play a light mech the way its role demands.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 15 January 2013 - 06:11 AM.