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Fixing Information Warfare


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#1 DocBach

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:18 PM

We were promised a deep Information Warfare pillar where we'd have several different pieces of equipment that all provided an edge over our opponents and the other equipment, working against each other. What we got was ECM, ECM, and ECM, partially because of the fact that it was implemented with way more features then it ever had in any iteration of Battletech or MechWarrior, partially because implementation of other pieces of Information Warfare is so lackluster; ECM needs to be toned down and other components like Beagle and Narc need to be toned up.

ECM should not provide stealth 'Mech ability to block an entire team from sensors:


(Technical Readout: 3050 Revised, pg 196)
"The Guardian emits a broad-band signal that interferes with all sonar, radar, UV, IR, and magscan sensors, thus protecting all units in a radius of up to 180 meters by projecting a "cloak" to its enemies. Enemy long-range sensors can find vehicles and 'Mechs within the curtain, but the Guardian obscures the reading and prevents identification. By the time the enemy enters visual range, sensors can sometimes override the jamming, but by this time most pilots rely on their own eyes to track the opposition."

(Total Warfare, pg 134): "The ECM does not affect other scanning or targeting devices such as TAG and targeting computers"

ECM should not make missile locks impossible:
(Total Warfare, pg 134): "ECM blocks the effects of Artemis IV fire control systems. Artemis-equipped launchers may still be fired as normal missiles through ECM." and "Missiles equipped to home in on an attached Narc pod lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus for that system if the pods themselves lie within the bubble. The Narc launcher itself is not affected by ECM."

The previous rules state that missile attacks occur as normal, just not augmented with guidance from their advanced systems. Under no rulesets does it say that standard Guardian ECM negates the effect of Streak missile systems.

In disrupt mode ECM should have the following abilities:
-Disrupt Beagle's ability to detect shut down 'Mechs (Total Warfare, pg 134)
"Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM's area of effect. The probing unit would notice it is being jammed, however"

-Negate the tight groupings of Artemis-enhanced missiles (Total Warfare, pg 134)
"ECM blocks the effects of Artemis IV fire control systems. Artemis-equipped launchers may be fired as normal missiles through the ECM, but they lose the Cluster Hits Table Bonus"


-Negate the tight groupings of Narc-enhanced missiles, as well as prevent indirect fire on a Narc'd 'Mech without LOS (more on this later)
(Total Warfare, pg 134): "Missiles equipped to home in on an attached Narc pod lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus for that system if the pods themselves lie within the bubble. The Narc launcher itself is not affected by ECM."

-Prevent spotters in the ECM bubble, or on the other side of, with line of sight passing through a bubble from transmitting target data to team mates outside the bubble
(Total Warfare, Pg 134) "ECM has the effect of cutting off any C3 equipped unit from its network." Even though we don't officially have C3 installed on our 'Mechs, the way that our units communicate target data is what the C3 network does effectively. Being inside the ECM bubble should disrupt your ability to send data back to the rest of your team.

-Make target ID slower to acquire, but not block locks or targeting completely
(Maximum Tech, pg 54) "Though ECM systems can prevent a sensor probe from identifying a unit, they produce powerful distinctive electronic signatures."


(Technical Readout 3050: Revised, pg 196) "Enemy long-range sensors can find vehicles and 'Mechs within the curtain, but the Guardian obscures the reading and prevents identification."

So sensors know something is out there, it just can't identify it or provide target information like the paper doll. Perhaps allowing spotting units to lock on and track on radar, but provide much less information like damage or weapons readouts.

Tactical Operations, Pg 224:


"To be affected, the spotting unit must be in the normal operating
radius of the ECM/stealth system (note that stealth systems
only affect the target unit and do not have a radius of effect, and
so are only taken into consideration for the unit mounting that
equipment). LOS does not affect this radius. If a spotting unit is
within the range of multiple ECM systems, combine the effects of
all the ECM systems."

ECM does make targeting units while inside the bubble more difficult, and its non-lockable effect it currently has outside the bubble should only affect 'Mechs when they are inside the operating radius of the ECM.



-Generate ghost targets in a seperate mode from disrupt/counter - bring up the command map with B in ghost target mode and plot a false radar signal that shows up like a target shrouded by ECM - target-able by R, but no target data available
(Tactical Operations, pg 100): "The ECM suite can be tuned to generate "ghost targets" that may affect the ability of enemy units to properly target friendly units. The ECM loses its normal function when used this way."

-Run counter ECM mode
(Tactical Operations, pg 99): "An ECM suite can be tuned to act as electronic counter-countermeasures (ECCM) in order to negate enemy ECM systems."


Beagle should:

-Provide 360 degree scanning and targeting within a 150 meter bubble, including 'Mechs outside of line of sight such as behind buildings or terrain, as long as the 'Mech is not shut down

(Total Warfare, pg 129): "An active probe can detect any hidden 'Mech if the concealed unit lies within the probe's range." Like ECM, Beagle projects a scanning bubble of 5 hexes around it, equating to 150m of range

-Detect shutdown 'Mechs outside of ECM bubbles, if the unit with Active Probe has line of sight to the shut down unit
(Total Warfare, pg 129): "An active probe can detect any hidden 'Mech if the concealed unit lies within the probe's range."

-Negate ECM's target acquisition slowdown while outside the bubble
(Tactical Operations, Pg 99) "A unit with an active probe can also acquire information about an enemy unit’s status"

-Identify ECM Ghost targets as being false targets
(Tactical Operations, Pg 99) "A unit with an active probe will find it easier to overcome an ECM’s ghost target ability"

-Identify users the boundaries of the ECM bubble if they encounter ECM within Beagle's 150m scan bubble
(Total Warfare, pg 134)
"Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM's area of effect. The probing unit would notice it is being jammed, however"

The Narc beacon was rendered completely worthless when PGI failed to include its most important perk (Total Warfare, pg 139) which states:

"Once a Narc pod is attached to a target, all Narc-equipped missiles may be fired indirectly at a target without a spotter"

By this writing, we should be able to maintain locks on targets affected by Narc even if they go behind terrain and cut off line of sight, thus Narc should:

-Tighten LRM/SRM grouping on targets in line of sight
-Allow targets marked by Narc to remain targeted even when LOS is lost so LRM attacks can continue indirectly without spotters
-Last for either an extended duration than current or until the location the Narc hit is destroyed

A couple simple changes would make all of the advanced EW equipment viable, while remaining faithful to the source material without being game breaking or overpowering. ECM would still be useful to take, especially for protection against LRM spotters, as it would prevent them from sending target data to their LRM boats, protect you from Narc which would actually be a useful item if it kept enemies lit up on radar for indirect fire without a spotter like the rules say it does, and give Beagle expanded roles like countering ECM outside of the bubble (inspired by detection rules from MaxTech and Tactical Operations), and serving as a warning system that you are inside the bubble propper, which would be useful for spotters trying to Narc targets or transmit data.

The above changes would make information warfare have counters to each other, beyond just ECM, ECM, ECM. It would make it everything a useful addition to a team, but not an absolute necessity or gamebreaker.

Edited by DocBach, 29 January 2013 - 09:55 PM.


#2 Aaron45

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 05:26 PM

Well done and thx for the huge research work.

Since it has been said in different posts- ecm is tooo over powered.

But by far- your post has the best researched

Edited by Legolaas, 05 January 2013 - 07:19 PM.


#3 HurlockHolmes

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

Thanks for posting it here, like I said, I think they are far more likely to read it if it isn't in general forums.

If I worked for PGI I would always avoid general, lest I want to feel terrible,

That being said, all your points are well thought out and I couldn't agree more.

I am not bothered to much by the current implementation of ecm, however I do think it is at the very least, much to light compared to it's peers in terms of it's weight/power ratio.

Given the option, would you take ECM, BAP, or a NARC? Not really much thinking about it involved if you ask me.

#4 HammerMaster

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:37 AM

I applaud your distilling down of the vast quantities of info out there and make this available. NOW! It just needs a look by the powers that be. THIS will BALANCE not nerf the situation. And we all know we need balance not nerfs.

#5 Michaelson Snow

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:48 AM

Good info gathering and structure, wonderful post that points out the problems of EW. Thnx for putting this together and being intelligent instead of demeaning or demanding.

Now, to have the right people read this.....

#6 Frostblade

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 08:39 AM

I hope the devs take a look at this well thought out post and implement the balance needed to tone down ecm and help out beagle and narc

#7 Aaron45

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:34 PM

Simply to make sure this post doesnt falls back to 2nd page as its too great.

#8 StalaggtIKE

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

Bump!

#9 costi

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 03:58 PM

Great summary, thanks!

#10 shotokan5

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:43 PM

Sounds good to me.

#11 Aaron45

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 07:43 PM

bump

#12 Aaron45

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:10 AM

bumb!

#13 Gabrion

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:22 AM

AWESOME POST!

#14 Khan Hallis

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:54 AM

Well done!

Very well thought out, researched, and presented.
Definitely one of the best arguments made to date demonstrating, how the ECM has been implemented in such a way that it is overpowering, overshadowing, and obviating, the uses of the other EW equipment in game.

Let's hope that it is read and taken on board for balancing things better.

#15 focuspark

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 02:28 PM

Kudos on fine research. I'd like to jump in here and say that I don't give a damned about what cannon or some poorly written BT manual says, ECM needs to be fun for MW:O. As it is, it's broken and I will not recommend the game to any of my friends or colleagues until it's un-broken. In the meantime we'll stick with EVE Online - thanks. :-(

Dev's: FIX ECM, SSRM, and the net code. Thanks!

#16 DocBach

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 08:12 PM

thanks for the positive feedback

#17 CompproB237

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:22 PM

This is much better than the other posts I've seen on the subject. I'm especially impressed with the direct information from source books. Thank you for taking the time to really look deeply into this.

This actually reminded me of the information I was working on during the Closed Beta about how C3 works when people where having issues with LRMs (before artemis) and calling it LRM Warrior Online.

Edited by CompproB237, 13 January 2013 - 10:24 PM.


#18 Jungle Rhino

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 12:20 AM

The game would be amazeballs if the Electronic Warfare pillar worked in the way described. BAP would be a great tool for close range fighters looking for an edge in an urban environment. ECM would still be helpful but not game changing. LRMs would be far less frustrating and probably not terribly OP as end of the day hard cover is what stops them in this game.

#19 grayson marik

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:33 AM

bump

#20 Theobald Hauser

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:29 AM

Bump.

Great post.





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