162 replies to this topic

[Wraith05]

Flyby215, on 05 January 2013 - 05:59 PM, said:

Pre-mades certainly do have a communication advantage, but I can tell you from experience that no amount of communication can overpower superior skill from opposing players, even if said players are PUGs.

The quarrel I presently have though is how come I will occasionally come across 6-8 founders on a single team, and absolutely none on the opposing team, yet apparently this has nothing to do with pre-mades or matchmaker. I once suggested that if there are 6+ founders on a single team, there is likely a pre-made (on the basis that founders have been playing longer than anyone else, and therefore most likely to be involved in some sort of team activity by now) but I am repeatedly scolded, ridiculed, and occasionally told "founders and pre-mades are completely unrelated noob". Not trying to hark on founders or anything, but why would I be outright ridiculed for asking why there are 6-8 founders on a single team yet none on the other? Shouldn't random chance dictate a more even distribution?

It could imply a premade is on that team but not prove it. With random chance and no grouping you could still end up with 1 full team of founders and 1 without. Not as likely but possible. Now if you always saw founders on 1 and none on the other I think you could safely assume you went up against teams in most of those matches. But 1 or 2 I'd just write off as random chance.

[Lukoi Banacek]

merz, on 05 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Looking over the past few months of posting here and elsewhere, i continue to be confounded by one particular subject that comes up fairly often: premades. Even the term itself seems pejorative from the start. One comment in a thread not long ago seemed to vilify players dropping with voice communication or coordinating with one another as though they were somehow 'farming the game on easy mode'..

All this seems strange to me both in terms of battletech lore and the game in its current form: we are dropped as teams.Though voice communication is not integrated into the game to a level I feel it should be completely out of the box, it is still there if you make the least bit of effort. Far from its majority involves some self-described 'military-style gaming groups'. I stumbled upon the folks I play with presently through trying out C3, and have consequently been enjoying my MWO experience far more than I ever did trying to cat-herd random bunches of disorganised players, who often seem too content to run around like headless chickens.

Perplexing part comes where these aforementioned chickens come to cry here. I mean, I don't quite understand - do you honestly believe that a disorganised tangle of random strangers fanning out is the way to go about playing this obviously team-focused game? Must you blame those who prefer teamwork to such nuttery for what really amounts to your failure to grasp the obvious?

Get on teamspeak - there are open servers.
Get on C3 - its supposed to be integrated into the game somehow in the near future.
FInd other people to pay with. Without them this game offers a very shallow experience you will never be able to truly enjoy. At the very least, don't blame others for doing so.

I play BF3 constantly...when I'm not playing MWO.

That being said, concur with the above. What is especially galling is when people don't want to use any teamwork (even rudimentary kind just via the chat box) to coordinate and then cry about PUGs vs Premades....it's illogical. You cannot be a solo artist in most team oriented games, especially FPS and combat simulators, and yet people lament premades.

I premade with clanmates.

I premade with people I've met only in matches that aren't clanmates, when the former aren't around.

There's really no reason to lone wolf and if you do...reap what you sow.

[Wraith05]

Felix, on 05 January 2013 - 06:03 PM, said:

there are plenty of 4 mans queing up to pug stomp as it is, and so what? If you want to play as a group you should be willing to wait for another group to come up in the rotation, not just go and drool while ya stomp on a bunch of solos

Before I give my reasons take a second and analyze what you just said. Because what I got out of it was "I want the game to be played my way and screw your way!" Which is also funny since you assume that is the grouping mindset. And for the record I don't play to pugstomp, I pug just as much as I group up. And I group up at times because I want to play as a team.

That being said what about the groups of 2 or 3 people? Or for that matter since it's all groups in one what about any group not an 8 man? 7 mans would just be impossible to run. You make the game less viable for them. The solution isn't a solo queue, it is a better matchmaker that will make matches closer battles regardless of grouping or pugging.

[Felix]

Wraith05, on 05 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

That being said what about the groups of 2 or 3 people? Or for that matter since it's all groups in one what about any group not an 8 man? 7 mans would just be impossible to run. You make the game less viable for them. The solution isn't a solo queue, it is a better matchmaker that will make matches closer battles regardless of grouping or pugging.

And then you have the kids from creddit and goons who will just derp around on the opposing team till the people that arent in their group kill eachother off then they will engage one another, or they will avoid one another in the match they get paired off against one another to let the game come to a draw.

I agree a better matchmaker is needed, but with the low amount of players per side they should separate pre mades from pugs fully

[Greyfyl]

Sears, on 05 January 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

90% of people doing premades just want easy wins? Surely the reason why people premade is irrelevant, people want to premade.

Why aren't they joining up to do 8mans then? Let us all here the myriad of **** poor excuses one more time, please it will be good for a laugh.

At the end of the day, the op is telling puggers that this is a team game...they need to get in TS or get the hell out. Nobody is telling people that they either need to quit doing premades or get out, we are simply saying that your free ride needs to end. If you are doing premades for anyt reason OTHER than the easy wins you really wouldn't care if the changes I suggested would be implemented now would you? Of course not, you would still be able to do 4mans as much as your little selfish heart wanted to.

[cleghorn6]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 January 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Hunger Games.....

Now THERE is a game type idea.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

Tried the whole TS thing for the first time last night...when I say for the first time I mean I have never used it for anything ever. Spent about 30 minutes trying to figure out what I was suppose to do with it. Figured out how to mute the mic and un-mute it... made a avatar deleted it made a new one. Saw a pile of clusters of char. names( some I recognized from forum posts) saw about 24 or so clusters of 4 char. names(that I assume where in game playing) and a few groups of 2 or 3...even saw a group or 2 of 8. But honestly for the life of me I gave up trying to figure out what to do lol went back and played a few rounds and quit for the night. I am sure if You use team speak a lot it probably comes as second nature, maybe I try some more till I figure it out.

[Stone Wall]

Tastian, on 05 January 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Terrible. The 'whiners' are 'whining' not because premades shouldn't be allowed, but because the matchmaking is nonexistent. There is one giant pool that just randomly throws anyone together regardless of if its their first time playing, using trial mechs, are veteran soloers, have crap loadouts, afk, bots, suiciders, or highly organized teams sync dropping. Do you think its fair that someone in a trial mech who doesn't know how to target with 'R' or group his weapons is paired up with 3 other people who may also have trial mechs against a skilled group (or 2) of 4 on Teamspeak? No, its not. Its horrific that someone who has just downloaded this game and started using a trial mech and barely has any chance to practice is getting streamrolled by premades. If there is no practice drop area, then at least let them group up with other people of the same skill. But don't complain about those pointing out that they don't like being pug stomped.

all MechWarrior games have grouped people together like this. I know alot of FPShooters also do this.

[Wildstreak]

merz, on 05 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Looking over the past few months of posting here and elsewhere, i continue to be confounded by one particular subject that comes up fairly often: premades. Even the term itself seems pejorative from the start. One comment in a thread not long ago seemed to vilify players dropping with voice communication or coordinating with one another as though they were somehow 'farming the game on easy mode'..

All this seems strange to me both in terms of battletech lore and the game in its current form: we are dropped as teams.Though voice communication is not integrated into the game to a level I feel it should be completely out of the box, it is still there if you make the least bit of effort. Far from its majority involves some self-described 'military-style gaming groups'. I stumbled upon the folks I play with presently through trying out C3, and have consequently been enjoying my MWO experience far more than I ever did trying to cat-herd random bunches of disorganised players, who often seem too content to run around like headless chickens.

Perplexing part comes where these aforementioned chickens come to cry here. I mean, I don't quite understand - do you honestly believe that a disorganised tangle of random strangers fanning out is the way to go about playing this obviously team-focused game? Must you blame those who prefer teamwork to such nuttery for what really amounts to your failure to grasp the obvious?

Get on teamspeak - there are open servers.
Get on C3 - its supposed to be integrated into the game somehow in the near future.
FInd other people to pay with. Without them this game offers a very shallow experience you will never be able to truly enjoy. At the very least, don't blame others for doing so.

- Try asking why people don't get on these voice chat methods you mention, you would learn something.
- Given some recent things I have seen typed on general chat, personally I am not convinced to try.

[Wraith05]

Cuthbert Allgood, on 05 January 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Tried the whole TS thing for the first time last night...when I say for the first time I mean I have never used it for anything ever. Spent about 30 minutes trying to figure out what I was suppose to do with it. Figured out how to mute the mic and un-mute it... made a avatar deleted it made a new one. Saw a pile of clusters of char. names( some I recognized from forum posts) saw about 24 or so clusters of 4 char. names(that I assume where in game playing) and a few groups of 2 or 3...even saw a group or 2 of 8. But honestly for the life of me I gave up trying to figure out what to do lol went back and played a few rounds and quit for the night. I am sure if You use team speak a lot it probably comes as second nature, maybe I try some more till I figure it out.

Hello Mr. Allgood.

I am assuming by your post you figured out how to connect to a server. If not I can walk you through that also. I usually will play on the comstar NA servers. If you need help finding or joining that server I will also help you there just let me know.

Once you join a server at the top of your teamspeak window you should see some options same as you would in microsoft word. One of them should be "settings"

Hit it and it should give you a drop down menu. Select "options" which should cause another window to pop up.

This window should have some icons and words on the left in a column. You want to select the "capture". which will change the left side of this window to give you the options for this catagory.

You should see a radio button with "push to talk" around the middle of these options. Select it and choose a key you want to use to push when you want to talk. That should make it so you can now actively choose when to open your mike or not.

Also if you did join a comstar channel they have it set up so noone can talk in the entry zone. You should see a lot of catagories or channels on the left after you saved and closed out of the options back to the main TS3 screen. They should be listed as:

Entry zone
Chatter zone
Education center
Dropships

to name a few, these will have subchannels on them. The dropship channel for instance has channels like:
LFG
Dropship 1
Dropship 2
Dropship 3
etc...

To join a channel double click it and you'll see your name drop into that channel, once out of the entry zone you should be able to push the key you chose to activate your mic, hold it down and talk. Most of the people in there are helpful so if you have any other issues or questions feel free to ask. If you go into the LFG channel expect people to come up and ask if you want to join them in dropship whatever. Just double click that dropship to join and they should tell you who to friend in game.

Hope that helps you out and if you have any questions feel free to PM me, add me in game, or ask here.

[JohnnyC]

I mostly just launch and don't join voice servers to get in a group first. I don't feel like going through the trouble of loading up a 3rd party app, joining a server, waiting for or finding a group with an open slot, waiting for them to be ready, and then finally getting into a match. I just load the game, launch, and have a good time.

My K/D ratio is positive as is my Win/Loss ratio. Sometimes it goes bad for my team, but most of the time the fights are decent. All in all, I find the complaints at this point are largely without merit. Or at the very least I simply don't understand why people are complaining so much. Just work together with your team you end up with and do the best you can. Most importantly, try to have fun! Remember... this is a game... for fun... not serious business.

/my 2 cents...

[AvatarofWhat]

honestly I feel that moving to 4-mans was a bad move. Having a separate queue for 8-man only is great but not being able to drop when you are the 5th man in the server sucks. This is supposed to be a team game even when I had no unit and was only pugging I understood that and tried to work with the other pugs to the best of my ability. Sure we lost a lot but I was having fun. The main problem I guess is that so many of these whiners cant lose and have fun, winning is everything to them. Joining a group had made the game more fun for me I wont lie, but thats the difference between making friends or not. Same thing if I go to a concert by myself or with friends, clearly Im going to enjoy the concert more if theres a couple of friends with me.

If you insist on pugging then realize that youve got to work with the other pugs or lose. I've been part of that pug effort before and when a bunch of pugs beat a self-proclaimed premade....well thats a good enough feeling to satisfy 100 losses. Just because your in a premade doesnt mean you are working well together and it definitely doesnt mean you have any skills. Premades are just the scapegoat for any pugs loss. If it wasnt for so much whining maybe a group of 5-7 friends could play together without having to pick and choose whose on what team.

If your tired of losing get some comms, if you want to only pug... well you need to come to grips with reality. Stop your bitching and try your best and have fun win or lose.

/rant

Sry guys but I've been holding in my hate for the switch to 4-mans for a while. Maybe when ELO comes out Ill be able to play with 5 guys again without splitting into a group of 2 and a group of 3... or worse being the odd man out with no one to talk to. Dont get me wrong I still occassionally pug and have fun, I just like interacting with people in a TEAM game.

[Dirty Old Man]

PGI is implementing a ranking drop session control soon, please check their feature roadmaps. However, those who are rookies or casual gamers should not be pushed against competitive gamers as well. However PGI also loves to toss that this is Beta and nothing is setup to way the game will finally play. However that being said, please allow the rookies and casual gamers their own game mode soon or we will loose the value chain of possible stream of more matured players graduating from these "nursery" modes into our competitive modes. There needs to be a proper cycle control so that us competitive players dont crush the future players within this franchise. 1000 competitive gamers can not keep the business end of this game going without 5000 casual gamers and rookies trying to learn the game on their "terms" at least.

Hope PGI is reading this as a gentle reminder on the Urgency to complete their ranked based group sorting systems soonish !

Edited by Dirty Old Man, 05 January 2013 - 11:34 PM.

[Captain Daryl Taylor]

As a recently joined player I know how effective the premades are against new players. However, I don't disrespect the fact that they use a comm system in game to help with tactics and planning. After 74 games I have a 27/47 win/loss rate and a horrible k/d rate of 12/52. My biggest problem was when running my first 30 or so maps, when I got the cadet bonus. If I was in a match were it was all no grouped or pug players I would get a nice amount of cbills at the end of the match.

When against premades, I usually received the cadet bonus and 25000, maybe a little for any damage I did but nothing compared to when it was an all public match. One thing I noticed was a social panel in the mech bay area of the game. Is that so you can invite other players to a friends list and maybe run matches with them or is it something they plan to add in at a later date for in game comms and such?

In regards to using teamspeak, skype, or what have you, this isn't really a good idea for me. For one, my computer is in the living room and I'm sure that no one would want to hear my wife yelling at the dogs, my daughter blasting Lets Dance 4 on the xbox, or other random noise from my living room. By the same token, some of the things I have seen typed in chat by people just enhances my reluctant feeling to use teamspeak. I don't want my daughter to hear some of the things that I know would be said over a comm mic.

Once again, this is my choice, and I have no problem with having to play that way. Some matches I get stomped in the dirt, others are a quick base rush, and some we actually win, so I'm fine with that. What I don't like is the arrogance and looking down the nose attitude of some of these premades. One of my first matches a fellow stated that he hated noobs and pugs. Followed by we were gonna get stomped in just a couple of minutes. Before I died, I was able to take this fellow out, and felt the need to publicly state that I had killed the noob hater and was a happy NEWB for doing so. Many others on both teams agreed with me. Now that I have written a small novel i'll leave you with this from a newb pugger, come at me if you will but trust me when I say I will do whatever it takes to take you with me.

[BerryChunks]

Premade apologist scum.

[merz]

BerryChunks, on 06 January 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

Premade apologist scum.

Those awful, awful paedoph..i mean - premades! heaven knows what they're doing to the soil! What i'm trying to get across here is that 'pugging' is, by definition, something that runs contrary to the game's design. Its a team game. your lance is a coherent unit that works or fails as a whole. The loss of one can easily lead to the entire chain coming undone..Therein lies the depth and joy of anything battletech-related. This game is most definitely not a single-player experience in a multiplayer venue.. those saying that its 'perfectly valid' to ignore the above are also liable to understand that they're effectively forfeiting to others who acknowledge it. except they seem to believe that rivers of salty tears and threats to quit will persuade the developers in a different direction.

as an old eve player, the only response i can offer to those is the regrettably-impossible in MWO 'your stuff, can i have it?'

[Denno]

Captain Daryl Taylor, on 06 January 2013 - 12:31 AM, said:

As a recently joined player I know how effective the premades are against new players. However, I don't disrespect the fact that they use a comm system in game to help with tactics and planning. After 74 games I have a 27/47 win/loss rate and a horrible k/d rate of 12/52. My biggest problem was when running my first 30 or so maps, when I got the cadet bonus. If I was in a match were it was all no grouped or pug players I would get a nice amount of cbills at the end of the match.

When against premades, I usually received the cadet bonus and 25000, maybe a little for any damage I did but nothing compared to when it was an all public match. One thing I noticed was a social panel in the mech bay area of the game. Is that so you can invite other players to a friends list and maybe run matches with them or is it something they plan to add in at a later date for in game comms and such?

In regards to using teamspeak, skype, or what have you, this isn't really a good idea for me. For one, my computer is in the living room and I'm sure that no one would want to hear my wife yelling at the dogs, my daughter blasting Lets Dance 4 on the xbox, or other random noise from my living room. By the same token, some of the things I have seen typed in chat by people just enhances my reluctant feeling to use teamspeak. I don't want my daughter to hear some of the things that I know would be said over a comm mic.

Once again, this is my choice, and I have no problem with having to play that way. Some matches I get stomped in the dirt, others are a quick base rush, and some we actually win, so I'm fine with that. What I don't like is the arrogance and looking down the nose attitude of some of these premades. One of my first matches a fellow stated that he hated noobs and pugs. Followed by we were gonna get stomped in just a couple of minutes. Before I died, I was able to take this fellow out, and felt the need to publicly state that I had killed the noob hater and was a happy NEWB for doing so. Many others on both teams agreed with me. Now that I have written a small novel i'll leave you with this from a newb pugger, come at me if you will but trust me when I say I will do whatever it takes to take you with me.

Buy a cheap (10-15$) headset and use Push to Talk. It's a setting that allows you to bind your mike to whatever key you want. I use numpad 9 key for instance.

[Gryphdog]

First and foremost: this game is still in beta, and from what I understand, the devs are using this time to balance out battlefield gameplay. I'm sure they appreciate all the feedback the community gives them. On that note, I hope they realize that the vast majority of the gaming public form their only opinion of games based on their first few hours of gaming - if they get roflstomped all over the places they're likely never to come back.

I think two, four, and 8 man drops should be allowed, but they should be balanced - if team 1 has a 2 man drop, then team 2 should also have a 2 man drop. This seems like a fair way to even the odds and still let the noobs stand a chance while mechanics are resolved in beta stage.

I do hope that what we have so far isn't the only combat style available. I haven't checked the feature roadmap, but I'm hoping that sync drops are limited to clan warfare. I would like to see our current gameplay be the equivalent of clan battles, where anyone from a clan can battle another, sync'd or not. But I would also like to see an arena style element, where its pug only - no syncs allowed. If you're a new pilot or not clanned, then arena style is all you get.

To encourage people to join a clan, I think the R&R should be brought back, but only for arena matches. I think the Clan that you're in should cover your R&R bill.

[BerryChunks]

merz, on 06 January 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

Those awful, awful paedoph..i mean - premades! heaven knows what they're doing to the soil! What i'm trying to get across here is that 'pugging' is, by definition, something that runs contrary to the game's design. Its a team game. your lance is a coherent unit that works or fails as a whole. The loss of one can easily lead to the entire chain coming undone..Therein lies the depth and joy of anything battletech-related. This game is most definitely not a single-player experience in a multiplayer venue.. those saying that its 'perfectly valid' to ignore the above are also liable to understand that they're effectively forfeiting to others who acknowledge it. except they seem to believe that rivers of salty tears and threats to quit will persuade the developers in a different direction.

as an old eve player, the only response i can offer to those is the regrettably-impossible in MWO 'your stuff, can i have it?'

merz, on 06 January 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

Those awful, awful paedoph..i mean - premades! heaven knows what they're doing to the soil! What i'm trying to get across here is that 'pugging' is, by definition, something that runs contrary to the game's design. Its a team game. your lance is a coherent unit that works or fails as a whole. The loss of one can easily lead to the entire chain coming undone..Therein lies the depth and joy of anything battletech-related. This game is most definitely not a single-player experience in a multiplayer venue.. those saying that its 'perfectly valid' to ignore the above are also liable to understand that they're effectively forfeiting to others who acknowledge it. except they seem to believe that rivers of salty tears and threats to quit will persuade the developers in a different direction.

as an old eve player, the only response i can offer to those is the regrettably-impossible in MWO 'your stuff, can i have it?'

anyone who defends reasonable ideas or thoughts is obviously a terrible person, hence apologist scum.

[siLve00]

Instead of making threads where you explain what ppl should do.
You should make threads how PGI can fix it.

You know it.... and all the other ppl do know it too.
Why you dont say it ?
Okay i will do it for you :

PREMADE VS PREMADE FILLED WITH PUGS ON BOTH SIDES !

Why you dont support it ?
You know it... and all the other ppl do know it too..........

Talking crap... about teamwork and stuff but dont want a little bit of fairplay where every1 is happy ? Oh yeah boi.





*and i wana tell you why i pug.. because i hang out on TS with my friends who did quit MW:O because of the bugs*

Edited by siLve00, 06 January 2013 - 04:08 AM.