9 replies to this topic

[Cannibal Cat]

1. Hot-Loading LRM's
2. Dead-firing Streaks
3. BAP should allow you to lock onto an ECM mech when within ~200meters or so.
4. NARC should completely counteract ECM
5. NARC should transmit as long as the limb it's attached to is intact.


In the TT game, you can "dead-fire" Streaks, effectively making them regular SRM's.

1. You can Also "Hot-load" LRM's, allowing them to do damage under 180meters, but the downside, is if you get hit in the launcher while hot-loading, you chance an ammo detonation, destroying both the ammo in the launcher, and the launcher itself.

2. I'd like to see both these options implemented so Streaks and LRM's aren't completely useless against ECM mechs.

5. In the TT game, NARC beacons transmit until the limb they are attached to is destroyed. I know that would be somewhat unbalancing, so I would also add that every strike on the limb it's attached to has a chance of striking the beacon and destroying it.

[Lorehunter]

LRMs will already fire at a location without a lock, think 1000 meter SRMs. I dont remember that rule from the TT but the tactic is used in the books. The missiles did not detonate on impact but did bludgeon the target enough to require a "piloting roll".

Regarding NARC; in the ECM-ECCM war it is which every has the larger power source/broadcast ability that wins. ECM suit hooked up to fusion power plant always wins over a 1' becon on a battery pack.

As for the Streaks, again I do not remember that rule (not saying it did not exsist just that I am old with a faulty memory) but from what I know of targeting systems the launcher would disregard the trigger signal without 1st getting the lock on. To be able to "Dumb" fire them woiuld require an additional circuit be hooked up in the cockpit which would translate as a UI mod.

I have been arguing both sides of the ECM/BAP debate with myself and can see reasons for why it is as it is and why it should be changed. In this I will withhold my opinion.

[IceSerpent]

Lorehunter, on 05 January 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

LRMs will already fire at a location without a lock, think 1000 meter SRMs. I dont remember that rule from the TT but the tactic is used in the books. The missiles did not detonate on impact but did bludgeon the target enough to require a "piloting roll".

No, in the lore LRMs can always be "dumb-fired" and they will detonate if they hit a target between min and max range. If fired on a target within minimum range (guided or dumb-fire mode), they will only bludgeon the target w/o detonating.

Quote

As for the Streaks, again I do not remember that rule (not saying it did not exsist just that I am old with a faulty memory) but from what I know of targeting systems the launcher would disregard the trigger signal without 1st getting the lock on. To be able to "Dumb" fire them woiuld require an additional circuit be hooked up in the cockpit which would translate as a UI mod.

Streaks in the lore can't fire without a lock, but ECM in the lore doesn't prevent the lock itself, it only disrupts guidance. So, Streaks fired on a target under ECM "umbrella" act like regular SRMs - they don't track the target.

[Cannibal Cat]

IceSerpent, on 06 January 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

No, in the lore LRMs can always be "dumb-fired" and they will detonate if they hit a target between min and max range. If fired on a target within minimum range (guided or dumb-fire mode), they will only bludgeon the target w/o detonating.



Streaks in the lore can't fire without a lock, but ECM in the lore doesn't prevent the lock itself, it only disrupts guidance. So, Streaks fired on a target under ECM "umbrella" act like regular SRMs - they don't track the target.

Actually, in the TT game, LRM's can be HOT-LOADED, which means they are armed in the launchers, as opposed to being armed only after 180m. The problem with this is that if you're hot-loading and get a critical hit to said launcher, it causes an ammo explosion, destroying the launcher and possibly the limb.


Streaks can be DEAD-FIRED, which means fired without achieving a lock, but in that case they are effectively just costly SRM's.

[XphR]

Dead-fire is a type of ammunition that would be incompatible with streak launchers. Having the guidance systems replaced with larger cheaper payloads, they are a harder hitting dumb fire round.

Narc would be nice if it could pull its victim from the bubble.. and stay active for one minute at least (but with a chance of being destroyed on impacts). As they stand the six shots at a ton, for what is it twenty seconds each, and full sight? Laughable.

[Cannibal Cat]

XphR, on 07 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Dead-fire is a type of ammunition that would be incompatible with streak launchers. Having the guidance systems replaced with larger cheaper payloads, they are a harder hitting dumb fire round.

Dead-firing has nothing to do with the missile, but with the guidance system. It is basically forcing the launcher to fire the missiles before it can achieve a lock. This makes it an expensive SRM missile as the guidance system added to the missiles and launchers (the launcher normally attains the lock and the guidance system maneuvers the missile to target. The parts in the missile are useless unless an actual lock is made by the launcher)

[Noth]

You want hot loaded LRMs, wait for the Clan LRMs.

[XphR]

Cannibal Cat, on 09 January 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Dead-firing has nothing to do with the missile, but with the guidance system. It is basically forcing the launcher to fire the missiles before it can achieve a lock. This makes it an expensive SRM missile as the guidance system added to the missiles and launchers (the launcher normally attains the lock and the guidance system maneuvers the missile to target. The parts in the missile are useless unless an actual lock is made by the launcher)

You are incorrect. The two technologies are mutually exclusive.

Dead-Fire Missiles were prototype weapons developed by House Kurita to offset the increasing cost of military hardware. To reduce cost, the guidance systems of standard long range and short range missiles were removed and replaced with larger warheads. Though this obviously increased the damage the missiles inflicted, the lack of guidance made the systems very difficult to use. These systems existed for only a brief time before being superseded by Medium Range Missile launchers.
[Source]

Edited by XphR, 09 January 2013 - 04:53 PM.

[Cannibal Cat]

I'm not referring to Dead-Fire missiles, but to dead-firing missiles (sometimes called dumb-firing).
There *IS* a difference.
The former (to which you have referred) is a type of missile.
The latter is a method of overriding the targeting system of an existing Streak missile launcher and guidance system.

Edited by Cannibal Cat, 15 January 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[Eddrick]

My memory may be off on this. But, if I remember right. Hotloading LRMs arms the missiles while they are still in the launcher. Eliminating the minimum range. But, a hit to the launcher would cause the missiles to explode in the launcher.

Noth, on 09 January 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

You want hot loaded LRMs, wait for the Clan LRMs.

This defeats the reason of doing so unless you are IS. The clan version has no minimum range.