109 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

You will never have the ability to fight for a House and join a random queue to fight for control of a specific planet. Why?

1st) The game is pure PVP, you have to have another group of players for the other House queing for a fight.

2nd) There are 6 factions now, not counting the clans if they get added to the game. Too many teams will spread out the queue too much to allow people to Queue in an acceptable time frame.

3rd) If ELO match making is implemented it would lengthen out the queue more if you also had to take into account 6 factions.

4th) For true House oriented fighting to take place, you need 1 House leader, directing where people are going to fight to take control. I doubt Pirahna is going to do that for the game. Kesmai did for MPBT and it was great. I don't see that happening in 2013.


Most likely what you have is random queues where you will be fighting with other players from other houses and you will have a House Faction bar that will slowly increase over time. Maybe you will get access to mech chassis, weapons, upgrades, special cammo, titles etc from it.

[dF0X]

True.

Not to mention that PGI now refuses to answer any CW related questions, I think it's fair to say that the idea of fighting for a house and CW in general are dead.

[Mechsniper]

Sorry to disagree, but I think you underestimate the size of the community and have an incorrect assumption on the fourth. We do NOT need a house leader per se. According to devs, you will be defending ground in your territory/planet if you drop in a metagame match. The only problem will be inexperienced lances in your house dropping a lot of matches, but that is the nature of the game as an MMO and F2P game.

[Bagheera]

Too much conjecture in this thread.

[dF0X]

Mechsniper, on 06 January 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Sorry to disagree, but I think you underestimate the size of the community and have an incorrect assumption on the fourth. We do NOT need a house leader per se. According to devs, you will be defending ground in your territory/planet if you drop in a metagame match. The only problem will be inexperienced lances in your house dropping a lot of matches, but that is the nature of the game as an MMO and F2P game.

Well, that's one possibility.

On the other hand, you could be overestimating the size of the population of players, much like the post a couple of days ago (now in jettisoned) trying to claim some 200 thousand plus viewers on a twitch video, when it turned out that there was just 317 viewers.

Who knows which is correct since PGI removed the user count in the mechlab.

[Bagheera]

Pretty much impossible to know the population without being able to sample how many are in game at various points of the day.

At one point in early closed beta, someone counted up that the FRR had almost enough players in MW:O to represent on a 1:1 basis the number of pilots in all of the Kungsarme'. This, of course, was based on forum profiles and very early numbers. No way to know how many people have left. I imagine many though. I know my friends list in game is pretty much a ghost-town at this point.

The one thing that is certain though - without some sort of CW meta-game, the whole thing becomes sort boring. I'm already sitting on all the mechs I want out of the available ones, Mastered, and with all the modules unlocked. Basically nothing to do with the XP/C-bills that I have until the Treb is released in like 5 weeks.

There has to be more than just mechs as a reward for the grind. I know we are missing massive amounts of pilot skills from "Role Warfare," but that is only going to stop-gap. We need something to actually fight for, and that means Houses, Territory, the Clan Invasion, and getting to try to repel it.

[Rhent]

Mechsniper, on 06 January 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Sorry to disagree, but I think you underestimate the size of the community and have an incorrect assumption on the fourth. We do NOT need a house leader per se. According to devs, you will be defending ground in your territory/planet if you drop in a metagame match. The only problem will be inexperienced lances in your house dropping a lot of matches, but that is the nature of the game as an MMO and F2P game.

Yes you do need to have one house leader directing people to attack and to make alliances. For example, Kurita in MPBT always had to deal with an incredibly oversized House Davion population. So RudeRich one day made an alliance with all the other House leaders and took House Davion down to just New Avalon. Logging on and seeing an event like that going on makes people want to play.

Instead we get more random queues, and wow we get to watch our Cbills, XP, K/D ratio improve. Yippie.

[IG 88]

when the CW will be released you will see 500,000 new user
250,000 wont like it , 100,000 will hang around a little
100,000 will stay a bit longer, and the last 50,000 will stay but that 50k is ppl that was in beta and left

Edited by IG 88, 06 January 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[dF0X]

M A L I C E, on 06 January 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

To be fair though, once I realized what the icons meant, I did compare with arguably one of the most popular PvP games right now and MWO isn't too far behind.

Of course, Twitch isn't necessarily indicative of anything anyway...

You did MALICE, and Kudos to you. You manned up, admitted the mistake, and even found further evidence in that other video of similar numbers for a LoL video.

What does any of those numbers mean? I have no idea. It is all speculation. My speculation, unfounded at that, is that the population is dwindling, money for PGI is slowing, and that they're cutting back on the design goals to match.

Am I wrong. Maybe. Would I like to be wrong, yes, indeed yes.

[CDLord HHGD]

Not entirely true.

You'll NEVER have Lyran vs Davion, Liao vs Kurita, Marik vs Kurita, FRR vs Liao, Marik vs FRR..... That map, with political boundaries, it means something. Plus the lore of the 'verse too. At least in the era of the Clan invasion (3050-3057ish). I will also use MY map of the IS because the one PGI has is inaccurate.

What you will get:
Lyran/Davion vs Kurita
Lyran/Davion vs Liao
Lyran Davion vs Marik
Marik vs Liao

FRR is a oddity. There is a delicate peace between FRR and Kurita, and FRR and Lyran/Davion. Plus, rumor has it, the FRR has some trouble in the periphery. Pirates or mercs or some such.

Also, where's St. Ives? Or are they considered Davion too?

EDIT: TL:DR Point is, of the 7 factions (including Lone Wolves), there are some raids that just won't happen (Davion vs Lyran for example). So to say that there are 7 different factions all vying with each other isn't accurate.

Edited by cdlord, 06 January 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[HC Harlequin]

Wrong.. so wrong.

First thing is, merc contracts. A merc or merc unit cantake a contract with any House/Planetary Defense Force for any planetary attack or defense or even conduct small unit raids in their own right under contract with the House.

Second. Each House defends and attacks multiple planets. Even in the worst case scenario where there is only 1 planet being attacked (with however many mapsets in the attack) per house that's 12 seperate planetary sized (multi mapset) engagements just across the House/Merc/Planetary Defense Force spectrum.

Third. That doesn't include small unit raids (single map attack/defense) against planets deeper into the House battlespace.

Fourth. Even if a mapset is taken during a planetary engagement the defending House/Planetary Defense Force with additional merc assets can still counterattack that mapset to retake the map. And the more mapset retaken or defended the less effective the planetary engagement sized attack will be. Just because you have take a Lance/Section/Company sized objective does not mean you have won the whole planet. Even against the smallest of canonical moons it would take a Battalion sized element to conduct a full scale attack which in current system would be 12 seperate 4 man group sized maps, or 6 seperate 8 man group sized maps. And even if you won all 6 maps right away the defenders could still put together a counterattacking force for each map throughout the full scale attack duration.

[Name115734]

I am one who is hoping for the best but expecting the worst. PGI is already splitting the community up more and more each time they meddle with the matchmaking, driving a wedge into their player base. I can't see it getting better any time soon, and unless there is a real shift in matchmaking I just can't see community warfare happening, although this is the one aspect that would hold people here.

I would guess the best they could implement at this point is a Shattered Galaxies style of planetary conquest.

I will keep playing and keep supporting PGI with the hope they do what is needed to implement CW as fast as possible.

[HC Harlequin]

cdlord, on 06 January 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Not entirely true.

You'll NEVER have Lyran vs Davion, Liao vs Kurita, Marik vs Kurita, FRR vs Liao, Marik vs FRR..... That map, with political boundaries, it means something. Plus the lore of the 'verse too. At least in the era of the Clan invasion (3050-3057ish). I will also use MY map of the IS because the one PGI has is inaccurate.

What you will get:
Lyran/Davion vs Kurita
Lyran/Davion vs Liao
Lyran Davion vs Marik
Marik vs Liao

FRR is a oddity. There is a delicate peace between FRR and Kurita, and FRR and Lyran/Davion. Plus, rumor has it, the FRR has some trouble in the periphery. Pirates or mercs or some such.

Also, where's St. Ives? Or are they considered Davion too?

Doesnt' mean a house can't put together a raid, or pay a merc unit to conduct a raid.

[CDLord HHGD]

HC Harlequin, on 06 January 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Doesnt' mean a house can't put together a raid, or pay a merc unit to conduct a raid.

It kinda does. There are varying degrees though. Like the chance of Davion doing this to Lyran is 0%, null, nill, nicht! Capellan vs Kurta? They could, but why? Supply raid is too far especially since Marik and Davion/Lyran are right there. Mounting an expedition to raid Kurita from Liao is not cost effective. FRR is the interesting one. It is very vulnerable to both Lyran and Kurita, but both see it as a buffer state between the two and both (eventually) supported the formation of the FRR.

[Bishop Steiner]

One is also assuming that various members of the "Dev Staf" won't simply assume the "Mantle" of leadership for each faction, since the "Script" as it were, will have to be handled by PGI to set any up coming events, tournaments, etc.

And truth be told, whatever one thinks of PGI< the guys there seem to be Battltech nuts to the core, so would rather have one of them acting as Archon than ending up with Vassago or something, as with player communities the internal favoritism issues tend to be ridiculous.

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 January 2013 - 09:47 AM, said:

One is also assuming that various members of the "Dev Staf" won't simply assume the "Mantle" of leadership for each faction, since the "Script" as it were, will have to be handled by PGI to set any up coming events, tournaments, etc.

And truth be told, whatever one thinks of PGI< the guys there seem to be Battltech nuts to the core, so would rather have one of them acting as Archon than ending up with Vassago or something, as with player communities the internal favoritism issues tend to be ridiculous.

They aren't as nutty as you'd think, they didn't get the map right. For a fanatic, I'd expect an accurate map.

Theirs:


The accurate one:


Why? In 3050, the Federated Commonwealth did not exist. FC will not exist until Victor takes the throne. At this time, they are still considered two separate states and Davion's conquests of the CC were given to LC as a wedding gift, hence their being part of the LC in my map.

Devs also partially agree with me, I don't see a FC allegiance icon......

[KuruptU4Fun]

Rhent, on 06 January 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

You will never have the ability to fight for a House and join a random queue to fight for control of a specific planet. Why?

1st) The game is pure PVP, you have to have another group of players for the other House queing for a fight.

2nd) There are 6 factions now, not counting the clans if they get added to the game. Too many teams will spread out the queue too much to allow people to Queue in an acceptable time frame.

3rd) If ELO match making is implemented it would lengthen out the queue more if you also had to take into account 6 factions.

4th) For true House oriented fighting to take place, you need 1 House leader, directing where people are going to fight to take control. I doubt Pirahna is going to do that for the game. Kesmai did for MPBT and it was great. I don't see that happening in 2013.


Most likely what you have is random queues where you will be fighting with other players from other houses and you will have a House Faction bar that will slowly increase over time. Maybe you will get access to mech chassis, weapons, upgrades, special cammo, titles etc from it.

So let me get this straight, you're making some fairly large assumptions based on holes in the CW announcement?

This game is pure PvP yes. But that does not mean that (as an example WoW) that PGI can't create a world in which your House has conflicts with bordering houses. They post those conflicts on a board and you choose which one you want to participate in. Also include the Merc Corps that will take those same conflicts and participate in them as well. WoW creates expansions where the overall outcome is already set based on a storyline. We are going off of the history and timeline of the BT universe, which is exactly the same thing.

Your assumption on the amount of people who are playing for 6 houses, any number of merc corps as well as an unknown amount of lone wolves. It's easy to scale the amount of conflicts based on the number of people playing on the servers at any one time. Then divide those among said "groups", the ELO system really wouldn't be taken into account because it's a separate equation based on the player's ability, not the overall ELO score of the "factions" participating in conflicts on those servers.

The house leaders are simply lore, we will not have the ability to change the timeline and outcomes of the major battles. All we are doing is attacking and defending borders in a broad sense. Different house loyal groups will fight for loyalty points, which are effectively a ranking system. It has not been explained as to how those loyalty points will effect a command structure in any way. Your speculation on those groups getting access to anything "special" like House specific mech chassis, weapons or upgrades leads to an assumption that such things now become a "participate to win" scenario. Which has also been something PGI has not even hinted to.

So unless your ideas are based on some sort of information posted by PGI, why make very bold assumptions on how PGI will do anything whatsoever?

Desrtfox, on 06 January 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

True.

Not to mention that PGI now refuses to answer any CW related questions, I think it's fair to say that the idea of fighting for a house and CW in general are dead.

It seems to me that PGI is not making further comments about Comm. Warfare (beyond their initial post) as to not make conflicting statements. As I stated we are simply fighting over border territories based on general statements made in the CW thread. BT will most likely not allow things that alter the timeline in any major way whatsoever, which makes perfect sense considering it's already been made.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 06 January 2013 - 10:09 AM.

[HC Harlequin]

cdlord, on 06 January 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

It kinda does. There are varying degrees though. Like the chance of Davion doing this to Lyran is 0%, null, nill, nicht! Capellan vs Kurta? They could, but why? Supply raid is too far especially since Marik and Davion/Lyran are right there. Mounting an expedition to raid Kurita from Liao is not cost effective. FRR is the interesting one. It is very vulnerable to both Lyran and Kurita, but both see it as a buffer state between the two and both (eventually) supported the formation of the FRR.

You are thinking that's a 2 dimensional map. Nothing could be further from reality. It's only 2 dimensional from that viewpoint.
now.. if you are thinking of the political boundaries that would be different.
Also you are assuming an entire planet or multi-planetary corporation doesn't pay a merc to do some black ops to gain tech.
And how many times does that happen canonicly?

Edited by HC Harlequin, 06 January 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[HC Harlequin]

KuruptU4Fun, on 06 January 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

So let me get this straight, you're making some fairly large assumptions based on holes in the CW announcement?

This game is pure PvP yes. But that does not mean that (as an example WoW) that PGI can't create a world in which your House has conflicts with bordering houses. They post those conflicts on a board and you choose which one you want to participate in. Also include the Merc Corps that will take those same conflicts and participate in them as well. WoW creates expansions where the overall outcome is already set based on a storyline. We are going off of the history and timeline of the BT universe, which is exactly the same thing.

Your assumption on the amount of people who are playing for 6 houses, any number of merc corps as well as an unknown amount of lone wolves. It's easy to scale the amount of conflicts based on the number of people playing on the servers at any one time. Then divide those among said "groups", the ELO system really wouldn't be taken into account because it's a separate equation based on the player's ability, not the overall ELO score of the "factions" participating in conflicts on those servers.

The house leaders are simply lore, we will not have the ability to change the timeline and outcomes of the major battles. All we are doing is attacking and defending borders in a broad sense. Different house loyal groups will fight for loyalty points, which are effectively a ranking system. It has not been explained as to how those loyalty points will effect a command structure in any way. Your speculation on those groups getting access to anything "special" like House specific mech chassis, weapons or upgrades leads to an assumption that such things now become a "participate to win" scenario. Which has also been something PGI has not even hinted to.

So unless your ideas are based on some sort of information posted by PGI, why make very bold assumptions on how PGI will do anything whatsoever?


It seems to me that PGI is not making further comments about Comm. Warfare (beyond their initial post) as to not make conflicting statements. As I stated we are simply fighting over border territories based on general statements made in the CW thread. BT will most likely not allow things that alter the timeline in any major way whatsoever, which makes perfect sense considering it's already been made.

The "border territories" only exist based on star system drop points. If a House can drop in 3 systems deep in one jump that's still a "border territory"

[KuruptU4Fun]

HC Harlequin, on 06 January 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Doesnt' mean a house can't put together a raid, or pay a merc unit to conduct a raid.

Any House doesn't need to make a raid on another House on the other side of the galaxy, they'll have opportunity enough to do that with the bordering Houses. Why make more enemies on top of the ones you already have. It creates opportunities for them to gang up on you because they've formed an alliance. And again, PGI can't do anything to alter the dictated timeline already in place..