49 replies to this topic

[Noth]

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Ok C&C is not in the sense a game that required a "TEAM" for online play, I should have been a little more specific. Point is you have been online gaming for as long as I have.

I'll try to make this short.

True Skill = a long boring highway of norm.
Regular Matchmaking = Roller-Coaster Ups and Downs that keep the game fresh.

Stats are good to have for the players but not the public in my past experiences.
1. Breeds Cheating and/or Cheap selfish play.
2. Breeds inflated EGO's like "Mr. MLG", "Mr. K/D", "Mr. Pro", "Mr. WatchMyMontage". Becomes hard to find "Mr. I Lead", "Mr. I Listen", "Mr. Team".
3. Breeds Boosting

And again, many of the current most successful games out right now have extensive and public stat tracking. What you say is simply not true looking at the current market and patterns in gaming. Not having good stat tracking and even public stats have hurt games more than having them.

Edited by Noth, 06 January 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[Imperius]

Noth, on 06 January 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

And again, many of the current most successful games out right now have extensive and public stat tracking. What you say is simply not true looking at the current market and patterns in gaming. Not having good stat tracking and even public stats have hurt games more than having them.

Please tell me you don't consider Call Of Duty a good game?

[Noth]

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

Please tell me you don't consider Call Of Duty a good game?

League of legends, perhaps the biggest game in the world today. Then there is WoT. Numerous MMOs track stats and make them public, CoD (not good, but not dieing at all), Battlefield 3 and those are just of the very top of my head. Also if you notice, I said successful. Games can be successful without being good. Good for many games comes down to teh eye of the beholder, thus opinion based.

Edited by Noth, 06 January 2013 - 08:14 PM.

[Voidsinger]

A couple of points here.

First, people always mention playing for C-Bills, and forget playing for XP. Given XP are used for progressing in mechs you own, and that capping does still give 75XP to the entire team, + 50XP to those that cap, capping can be a quick XP earner.

Next up, on stats.

It seems to me, more than a stats page that is public, we need a resume page that can be accessed discretely by player choice. Want to show off, then let people see your resume. Stops player bullying and trashtalking of weaker stats, and lets them be used for recruiting as needs be. It takes the pressure off casual players.

People talk about most piloted mechs. It seems to me, that all this talk of stats avoids mentioning the skill levels of mechs for the pilot, the levels of the pilot tree. A specialist always is better with his chosen tool than a generalist, however breadth of ability has uses.

Edited by Voidsinger, 06 January 2013 - 08:17 PM.

[Imperius]

Voidsinger, on 06 January 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

A couple of points here.

First, people always mention playing for C-Bills, and forget playing for XP. Given XP are used for progressing in mechs you own, and that capping does still give 75XP to the entire team, + 50XP to those that cap, capping can be a quick XP earner.

Next up, on stats.

It seems to me, more than a stats page that is public, we need a resume page that can be accessed discretely by player choice. Want to show off, then let people see your resume. Stops player bullying and trashtalking of weaker stats, and lets them be used for recruiting as needs be. It takes the pressure off casual players.

People talk about most piloted mechs. It seems to me, that all this talk of stats avoids mentioning the skill levels of mechs for the pilot, the levels of the pilot tree. A specialist always is better with his chosen tool than a generalist, however breadth of ability has uses.

You're seem to understand my point.

[The Cheese]

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

I'll try to make this short.
True Skill = a long boring highway of norm.
Regular Matchmaking = Roller-Coaster Ups and Downs that keep the game fresh.

Fair enough, but I don't see how that fits in with the "Bad stat system will kill the game" theme.

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

Stats are good to have for the players but not the public in my past experiences.
1. Breeds Cheating and/or Cheap selfish play.

Any game with a win/lose condition, with or without stats, will see the behaviour you're talking about. Hell, people abuse bad AI in single player games to make the game easier.

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

2. Breeds inflated EGO's like "Mr. MLG", "Mr. K/D", "Mr. Pro", "Mr. WatchMyMontage". Becomes hard to find "Mr. I Lead", "Mr. I Listen", "Mr. Team".

I disagree with this being presented as a negative point. Players with huge egos are going to be around regardless of whether there's anything to back up their boasts. I'd go so far as to say that having a few well known players (whether they're loved or loathed) is actually GOOD for a game. Haven't you ever seen a notorious forum troll's name on the enemy's side of a scoreboard and thought to yourself "I'mma do me some headhunting"?

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:00 PM, said:

3. Breeds Boosting

Boosting is the result of a bad matchmaking system, not a bad statistical system.

Repeated editing because I apparently don't know how to proofread.

Edited by The Cheese, 06 January 2013 - 08:42 PM.

[Imperius]

Noth, on 06 January 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

League of legends, perhaps the biggest game in the world today. Then there is WoT. Numerous MMOs track stats and make them public, CoD (not good, but not dieing at all), Battlefield 3 and those are just of the very top of my head. Also if you notice, I said successful. Games can be successful without being good. Good for many games comes down to teh eye of the beholder, thus opinion based.

CoD is everything that's is making gaming no fun.
Battlefield 3 (PC) I hated too many D-Bag players that would boot if you beat them, took a chopper, killed them with a tank etc. They said going back to their roots and they didn't even include LAN (So much fail)

It's true a "good game" is opinion based. PGI can't ship out a CoD once a year to keep that crap series afloat, and it's already losing its momentum. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (Pre-Patch) was the best one out of them all. After that just pure crap.

[Noth]

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:23 PM, said:

CoD is everything that's is making gaming no fun.
Battlefield 3 (PC) I hated too many D-Bag players that would boot if you beat them, took a chopper, killed them with a tank etc. They said going back to their roots and they didn't even include LAN (So much fail)

It's true a "good game" is opinion based. PGI can't ship out a CoD once a year to keep that crap series afloat, and it's already losing its momentum. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (Pre-Patch) was the best one out of them all. After that just pure crap.

Guess what, D-bag players will always be around in multiplayer games. Stats don't make the magically disappear or even lessen their presence. They were around back in the original doom and they have been in any game since. Here's a hint, you ignore them or find better servers. I was never once kicked from a BF3 server and I did some pretty trollish things.

And again, please look at the current market. Stat tracking and public stats are a huge draw for players and pushes away very very few players.

Edited by Noth, 06 January 2013 - 08:27 PM.

[Imperius]

The Cheese, on 06 January 2013 - 08:22 PM, said:

Fair enough, but I don't see how that fits in with the "Bad stat system will kill the game" theme.

You need Ups and Downs to keep the game exciting. One huge boring mediocre experience wont keep many people's interest.

Stats in the end just alienate people.

[Noth]

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

You need Ups and Downs to keep the game exciting. One huge boring mediocre experience wont keep many people's interest.

Stats in the end just alienate people.

Stats only alienate players that let themselves be alienated.

[sj mausgmr]

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:

I starting playing online games back in the Counter Strike, Battlefield 1942, and Wolfenstein:ET days, also I have been on Xbox Live since it's first day on MechAssault. So, I ask you when did you start Online gaming? Before I can explain why I need some background info from you. I have seen many games die and read many forum cries of what could have saved said games but fell on def ears. Stats and True-Skill are huge factors.

Big f**king deal buddy. I started serious online gaming just before that time and you know what i cared about back then? How many kills i got, because it was a great gauge of how much *** i kicked. No community ever died because someone could look at how well they did in a game. Yes ok, this community has alt f 4 ******** who don't want to die. So what? Their stats are dishonest, so they know they're full of ****. Anyone else should take stat boasting accordingly, it may be inaccurate, dont use it as a recruitment guide until you've seen how someone plays. For example, in my unit, if i was wanting to pull a new recruit in, and i found out they were alt f 4ing , I'd boot them for it, and that would be the end of it.

Honestly, don't make pissy posts like this because you're upset that you're kd isn't going up as much as it should be because people 'care about their stats too much' - oh the irony.

[Myrrdoch]

More to the point, I actually WANT to be able to compare my preformance to other pilots of similar 'Mechs, especially once they put in full release. How else am I going to know where to go for a job, if I can't have some basis for comparison? You can probably assume the type of player that DC's just to save his KDR would DC just to stop you from killing him anyway, and...hey, having a public KDR might actually stop some people from AFK cbill farming, since it'll hurt their stats. So it really kinda balances out, I reckon.

[Imperius]

Noth, on 06 January 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Guess what, D-bag players will always be around in multiplayer games. Stats don't make the magically disappear or even lessen their presence. They were around back in the original doom and they have been in any game since. Here's a hint, you ignore them or find better servers. I was never once kicked from a BF3 server and I did some pretty trollish things.

And again, please look at the current market. Stat tracking and public stats are a huge draw for players and pushes away very very few players.

Well only time will tell I think it will be a big mistake and a huge step back, here is to hoping I'm wrong. Not to mention that maybe they should have a "Full Game" to offer before the focus so much resources on stats.

[Texas Merc]

1-5% of ppl care enough about this issue. yep game killer...

ok on to the next game killer thread...

[Imperius]

Noth, on 06 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Stats only alienate players that let themselves be alienated.

Not all true. Let's say I wanted to join a Lance and then they looked at my stats and said no instead of trying me out with them to see if I was a good fit. Let's say that became a trend for all Lances, and all my stats were from pugs with bad teams. Most likely I wouldn't stick around and I just got alienated.

[NKAc Street]

I would like to see total kill assists and damage done added to the stats.

[Imperius]

Texas Merc, on 06 January 2013 - 08:33 PM, said:

1-5% of ppl care enough about this issue. yep game killer...

ok on to the next game killer thread...

Maybe only 1~5% of the people that care are actually online... and the rest are playing and/or sleeping and haven't seen to topic yet...

[The Cheese]

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:28 PM, said:

You need Ups and Downs to keep the game exciting. One huge boring mediocre experience wont keep many people's interest.

Stats in the end just alienate people.

Maybe I'm missing a step, but matchmaking statistics and gamer statistics are two separate systems.

[Imperius]

sj mausgmr, on 06 January 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

Big f**king deal buddy. I started serious online gaming just before that time and you know what i cared about back then? How many kills i got, because it was a great gauge of how much *** i kicked. No community ever died because someone could look at how well they did in a game. Yes ok, this community has alt f 4 ******** who don't want to die. So what? Their stats are dishonest, so they know they're full of ****. Anyone else should take stat boasting accordingly, it may be inaccurate, dont use it as a recruitment guide until you've seen how someone plays. For example, in my unit, if i was wanting to pull a new recruit in, and i found out they were alt f 4ing , I'd boot them for it, and that would be the end of it.

Honestly, don't make pissy posts like this because you're upset that you're kd isn't going up as much as it should be because people 'care about their stats too much' - oh the irony.

I don't care about my K/D dude. I care about the game.

[Noth]

Imperius, on 06 January 2013 - 08:36 PM, said:

Not all true. Let's say I wanted to join a Lance and then they looked at my stats and said no instead of trying me out with them to see if I was a good fit. Let's say that became a trend for all Lances, and all my stats were from pugs with bad teams. Most likely I wouldn't stick around and I just got alienated.

You know what someone that doesn't let themselves be alienated would do? They go find a lance that doesn't do that, or they'd learn about the lance before applying. So yes, by just leaving the game after you get rejected you let yourself get alienated rather than just ignoring the a-holes and finding a different lance.

And no, it would not become a trend in this game as most players know that stats do not tell everything.