32 replies to this topic

[Shaved Ape]

Perusing the post I see the Hunchback suggested as a strong early choice, but with time and effort can it also be an end-game viable choice?

If not end game viable, does this game have a mechanism to encourage middle tier play?

I see five different versions of Hunchback, do those reflect some kind of mech progression where-in you start with the HBK-4G and advance to a superior HBK-4SP, are those mechanically equivalent mechs with different weapons loadouts to fill different roles, or is it some combination of the two?

How much choice does a mech pilot have in the design of their own mech? If I'd prefer an HBK-4H with superior heat efficiency at the expense of armor, does that possibility exist? If not, would there be another way of obtaining the heat efficiency I'm looking for?

Those are my only questions for the moment, I appreciate your responses.

[Rushin Roulette]

No tier ranking mechs ingame or planned at all. The setup of each mech can be changed within boundaries as much as you want.

The size of a mech also does not reflect how good it is either. Mech Warrior is all about balancing Armor/speed/Firepower/Amunition and heat.

Generally, the heavier a weapon is, the more heat and damage it deals (more so if it is an energy based weapon as opposed to amunition based weapons).

The same holds true for the size of a mech. The heavier a mech is, the slower its top speed is (also the slower it moves with the same engine compared to lighter mechs). To balance this, the heavier a mech is, the more weapons and armor it can mount. You have to also know that more weapons does not automaticall make a mech better either. A faster and more maneuverable mech can easily take out a bigger mech if the pilot can use his dexterity to stay out of the shooting view of the larger mech by consistently staying behind it.

In the end, your best bet is to try through all the trial mechs and select which role fits you the best (low damage but agile light mech, medium mech which is slightly slower with more firepower and armor, Heavy mech with even more firepower but quite slow or the lumbering weapon platform with high armor Assault mechs).

Playing alone is also deffinitely a way to loose all your games. Mech Warrior is all about teamplay and supporting /being supported by your teammates. You might also want to look through the forums here and join one of the Teamspeak servers to look for a group to play and communicate with. This will make learning the game much easier and less frustrating for you.

[Mechteric]

I would recommend the 4SP for any new players, as it doesn't have the glaring vulnerability of the other Hunches (that is nearly all the weapons in one torso). It also won't run quite as hot as the other good ones. Its stock weapons are pretty good I think (4 ML, 2 SRM6) but you may want to get a faster engine (no XL), and double heat sinks to make this thing more beastly.

Then the 4G and 4P are my other recommendations as the former excels at ballistics, the latter is great for carving people up with lasers.


With respect to the term "End-Game", what that really means in this game is getting in a merc unit/clan/outfit and fulfilling your duty to them, whatever that may be. It could be a light mech scout, a medium mech front liner, a heavy mech support, assault mech brawler, or any combination of the above!

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 07 January 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[SGT Unther]

I would recommend that you also try the Centurion as well for a first mech. The CN9-A is a very well rounded mech capable of many loadouts, however it is not as durable as the Hunchback. The CN9-A is more of a skirmisher (fire then move/hit and run) than a brawler (up in your face), most of the Hunchbacks are pure brawlers with the exception of the HBK-4J (LRM 10s).

If you want a more durable Centurion I would go with the CN9-AL which drops the ballistics in favor of energy weapons..

word of advice: if you do take the HBK-4SP for the love of God take the SRM ammo out of the center torso and put it in the side torso and put CASE on it. CASE is about 100K and it is worth every penny because it can save your butt in an ammo explosion. You'll still take damage from it but it means the difference from part of your mech dieing versus all of it.

[SGT Unther]

Also Endo Steel is an excellent upgrade for a medium mech.

[Troggy]

SGT Unther, on 07 January 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

I would recommend that you also try the Centurion as well for a first mech. The CN9-A is a very well rounded mech capable of many loadouts, however it is not as durable as the Hunchback. The CN9-A is more of a skirmisher (fire then move/hit and run) than a brawler (up in your face), most of the Hunchbacks are pure brawlers with the exception of the HBK-4J (LRM 10s).

If you want a more durable Centurion I would go with the CN9-AL which drops the ballistics in favor of energy weapons..

word of advice: if you do take the HBK-4SP for the love of God take the SRM ammo out of the center torso and put it in the side torso and put CASE on it. CASE is about 100K and it is worth every penny because it can save your butt in an ammo explosion. You'll still take damage from it but it means the difference from part of your mech dieing versus all of it.

Alternatively, toss it in the legs and save the Case cost for now. Generally speaking, people don't shoot for legs on Hunchies. However, lots of people carry ammo in legs, and people know this, so it's not a guarantee that your legs are safe.

It hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but part of the reason for multiple variants is to "level up" your mechs fully (which provides a small but very useful advantage), you need to gain experience in 3 variants of the same mech.

[Koniving]

I do -- shoot for the legs.

There are a number of 'Mechs that are particularly useful depending on your play style.

All variants are limited only by the chassis and by their hard-points. Some admittedly have better torso twist ranges compared to others (Stalker 3F twists 85 degrees, all other stalkers twist 65). Others have better max engine sizes like one of the Cataphracts being able to hold a grade 340 engine while the rest can only hold 255 -- but in most cases you'll never use that maximum size early on.

Remember to especially early on to never go on your own. Always move in a group. Hanging out near a much larger 'Mech can be useful to both him and yourself (you can give support, and he can take the big hits for you). The game ultimately relies on teamwork.

When under heavy fire and able to get away, do so. If not, stay calm, pick one target that you can hit, and shoot until either you or it dies. Usually if you take out the big guy, the others may run. However it's sometimes more practical to take out the heavy or the medium. Never pick a light as your focus -- against multiple enemies the light is too hard to hit and thus doing so is ineffective.

Speaking of focus fire, remember that all 'Mechs have body parts and weapons contained within them. First press R to target an enemy (unless they have ECM this should always work within visual range). Within so many seconds (time depends on range), you'll get a readout on the upper right corner. This readout will display body parts and colors. "Outlines" are armor. "Fill-ins" are internals. Invisible is dead, red is 25% or less, orange is 26-50%, yellow is 50-99%. Target specific body parts. Remember taking off a side-torso (shoulder) will remove their arm as well. Sometimes it may kill them if they are using XL engines.

Good luck and one more thing. Remember that + and o are two DIFFERENT cross-hairs. The + is for torso weapons. The o are for arm weapons.

[Hayashi]

Shaved Ape, on 07 January 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Perusing the post I see the Hunchback suggested as a strong early choice, but with time and effort can it also be an end-game viable choice? If not end game viable, does this game have a mechanism to encourage middle tier play? I see five different versions of Hunchback, do those reflect some kind of mech progression where-in you start with the HBK-4G and advance to a superior HBK-4SP, are those mechanically equivalent mechs with different weapons loadouts to fill different roles, or is it some combination of the two? How much choice does a mech pilot have in the design of their own mech? If I'd prefer an HBK-4H with superior heat efficiency at the expense of armor, does that possibility exist? If not, would there be another way of obtaining the heat efficiency I'm looking for? Those are my only questions for the moment, I appreciate your responses.

• There are no tiers. Some would say that the Light Mechs are currently actually some of the most powerful mechs around because of an effect known as lagshielding, contrary to what its weight might suggest.
  
• Almost every Mech can be an end-game viable choice. In very few instances, certain variants are flat-out inferior to others (For instance, the JR7-K is inferior in every way to the JR7-D after full upgrades), but these are few and far between.
  
• Different variants of a Mech can hold different amounts of weapons, and often in different positions. Occasionally, they can hold different max size engines. Try before you buy.
  
• Quite a lot of choice. You're limited by only critical slots, weight and weapon hardpoints. The rest is up to your imagination.
  
• Which mech is better than which mech varies from player to player. People think and play differently, and attempting to use a mech, even a popular one, which does not fit your playstyle will probably turn out very badly for you.

Given what you're asking, this is a possible choice for a Hunchback. But don't take my word for it, because I'm not you - and our differences in style will lead to differences in preferred loadouts.

Edited by Hayashi, 07 January 2013 - 08:20 AM.

[Mjting]

Play Hawken.

[Marukeru]

Koniving, on 07 January 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Others have better max engine sizes like one of the Cataphracts being able to hold a grade 340 engine while the rest can only hold 255.

To clarify only the CTF-4X has a max engine size of 255, while all other variants(1X, 2X, 3D) can mount up to a 340.

atdsutm, on 07 January 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Play Hawken.

Don't do that. Hawken is a re-skinned first person shooter.

[p4r4g0n]

Personally, I believe it boils down to what class you are most comfortable driving. However, given current match payouts currently favouring mechs that are durable and pump out a lot of damage, you might want to think about whether heavies or assaults would suit you.

That or use an ECM raven or commando lolz

Edit: Online Mechlab at http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab for experimentation.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 07 January 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[BigJim]

Shaved Ape, on 07 January 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

end-game viable

My advice would be to not think in this way.

"End game" is a poor mindset for this game, as nothing is "endgame", viable or otherwise.

Look at it this way;
You're a football player.
There are two pairs of football boots in front of you.

Which one is more "endgame viable"?

As you correctly surmised, the correct answer is - "WTF are you on about?"

Like a sport such as Football, there is no "end game" to MWO, you simply improve as you practice more and more.

Sure, there is a small amount of progression, as in you get XP, but seriously, you plough through the small XP-trees so, so quickly that it's a very minor consideration.

So from point one, pls take away the knowledge that unlike say, Road Rash, where you begin with a puny 250cc bike and end with a beefy 1000cc bike, in this game, the best way to play is to become really intimate with a given class or chassis, and play it.

Play it for longer that it takes to max out the XP tree, trust me, you'll need more practice than it takes to max-out that tree before you can honestly say you've "mastered" a given chassis or variant.

For example, I've been playing since June last year, and I have never played an Assault class mech.
Never. Not once.
I'm no nearer or further from "completing" the game as anyone else in this regard.


PART 2.

Second point;

There are two main types of match in MWO, and *this* is where the distinction between builds (configs) comes in.

1) There are formal, 8v8 matches between coordinated teams, with everyone on Comms.

2) There are free for all matches with solo players and smaller teams thrown into the mix, that are far less coordinated, most players are not on comms, and are not at all prearranged.


This is where the distinction in builds comes in.

In an 8v8, you will need a highly min-maxed buld, that puts out the maximum DPS, and if you're a Med/Heavy/Assault mech, that can stand on the line and take a pounding.

These matches usually have a single drop-commander who gives orders and calls movement & targets.
You will not be running around on your own, you'll be sticking with the main body of your team most of the time.
You will not "just go and check over here.." on a hunch, so a massive engine speed is often wasted.
These builds won't take much ammo (you won't need it, unless you're boating LRMs), and they will benefit from choosing a role, and specialising in it totally.


Conversely, in a free for all, you will be doing much more running around, so engine size is important. You will need that speed to avoid enemy fire, you might often run into a group of enemies, not knowing there were there, and need to turn & run.

You will likley need more ammo, since you canno communicate with your team, and thus, you can't rely on focus-fire from your entire team to take enemies down, you will often be 1v1 duelling a fresh enemy until one or the other of you are dead.
This happens less in a formal match, but happens all the time in free for alls.

There are aspect to the build I haven't covered, and there is more room elsewhere to go into specific builds, but this is the major distinction between the types of mech & build you choose.
A] Min-maxed 8v8, or
B] Rounded free for all machine.
Some builds overlap, but often you will be taking a different mech into the different types of match.

So, it's not about one of these mechs being "better" than another, or more viable for some endgame, but it's about a build being optimised for the job you want it to do.


Final point;
Trust me, even if you've played every Mechwarrior game since MW2;31st Century Combat on Win95, even then, you will suck.
Everyone does, it's the nature of the game.

Please don't mistake this natural suckage (which will pass with practice) for a bad mech.
Sure, the trial mechs are objectively bad, but once yuo've quickly moved out of the trial mechs, I can assure you that you can be strong in any chassis.

Some mechs (Dragon, Commando, etc..) I would not recommend for formal 8v8s, since they can't really be minmaxed as much as I'd like, but those chassis can and do often dominate in the free for all matches.

Ps; Best of luck dude, and welcome to the game.

[Koniving]

Marukeru, on 07 January 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

To clarify only the CTF-4X has a max engine size of 255, while all other variants(1X, 2X, 3D) can mount up to a 340.

Figures. Mine is the 4X. I got SCREWED! O_O! But it works great with 4 machine guns, 1 large pulse and 1 streak. Everyone always aims for those useless arms. The 2.04 heat efficiency helps, of course.

[ICEFANG13]

My advice to you and the OP, never use Machine Guns or Flamers at this point in game.

[MechaCrash]

The most important things to look at for a mech are what hardpoints it has and where they are. Their quantity is presented to you, but their location is not, so you have to go elsewhere for that -- that Smurfy link earlier does a good job of it. But there's a few things to keep in mind before you get started.

• Trial mechs are overheating pieces of garbage. Do not let their performance color your perception of the game, especially since you'll be buying a Hunchback 4SP as soon as you can.
  
• In theory, all mechs and weapons are equally viable. In practice, some mechs and weapons are just complete garbage. This isn't the time or place to go over all of them, but for Hunchbacks, the ones you want to look at for starting are the H, P, and SP. The G has three ballistic hardpoints in the right torso, and "three ballistic hardpoints in RT" is generally less useful than "one ballistic and two energy" like the H gets. The J has one more energy hardpoint than the SP, but it loads everything into the right torso. The SP's arm mounted energy weapons are more useful.
  
• As for weapons: medium lasers are king, only use medium pulse lasers if you have weight but not hardpoints or space. Garbage weapons to avoid are machine guns (awful damage), flamers (heats you more than the enemy, the two ER energy weapons (fights tend to be within 300 meters so you're paying a lot of heat for something that doesn't really help), and small pulse lasers (just use regular mediums).

The 4SP is a solid starter, and I suggest this as a starter. The changes are that the small laser was removed from the head, the heat sinks upgraded to doubles, AMS and one ton of ammo added, and rest of the weight/space filled with double heat sinks, some armor redistribution on torso). Once you can afford an XL engine, one thing to consider would be taking one heat sink out of each side torso, installing a 260 XL engine, and loading those two heat sinks into the engine. Then use the last half ton left over to armor up the legs. Like this. If you think you're short on ammo, then you can trade one (or both) SRM6 launchers for an SRM4 launcher and another ton of ammo.

[Koniving]

ICEFANG13, on 07 January 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

My advice to you and the OP, never use Machine Guns or Flamers at this point in game.

Funny. I use both. My Commandtroll sports 2 of them and 2 SRM launchers. Does well, but we'll face it and admit that he's useless without a big buddy.

My Cataphract 4X uses 4 MGs, 1 Large Pulse Laser, and 1 Streak, For some reason people just naturally aim for those MGs on the arms. Given that the build cannot overheat even after losing side torsos, it works great! Never ending damage.

[MechaCrash]

Sorry, but your 4X build sucks. They aim for the arms because they either are jumping to conclusions about where your firepower is, or do not realize that machine guns are worthless. One machine gun does 0.4 DPS. So you're spending at least five slots and three tons on a weapon that theoretically matches the performance of a single medium pulse laser, but in truth falls far short because it has terrible range and is less likely to get all of its damage in one spot.

[Wrenchfarm]

Welcome to MWO! A lot of great advice in this thread already, but let me give a shout out specifically to the HBK-4SP, it might just be the best starter mech in the game. Great speed, firepower, and manoeuvrability when fully upgraded.

You might want to check out the new player guide in my signature. Anything about repair costs is out of date (the game no longer has them) but everything else is still relevant.

[Wun]

Mechacrash is correct. Both those builds have half the effective firepower they could. The thing that is saving you is when people see flamers and MGs, they laugh and look for more significant threats before deciding to deal with you.

Edited by Wun, 07 January 2013 - 02:26 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

Haha anyone who says "this build is good" and it has a flamer or a MG on it, I laugh.

NO! OP do not use Flamers or Machine Guns at all right now. MechaCrash's list is amazing and great advice, take it.
"As for weapons: medium lasers are king, only use medium pulse lasers if you have weight but not hardpoints or space. Garbage weapons to avoid are machine guns (awful damage), flamers (heats you more than the enemy, the two ER energy weapons (fights tend to be within 300 meters so you're paying a lot of heat for something that doesn't really help), and small pulse lasers (just use regular mediums)."

I would say that mediums do a weaknesses, but overall, I'd agree about it, if you aren't sure, you can't go wrong with a medium laser.