64 replies to this topic

[CodeNameValtus]

I find it hard to believe they believe they think are hitting the target when they are dragging their lasers around so wildly on a near stationary target...Or just shooting ballistics over the heads, or into the ground around the mechs feet.

Panning crosshairs left/right, and not up/down is a difficult skill to master? I never thought so, but watching some of these guys shoot at thin air makes me think that I'm leaps and bounds above the trained chimp mechpilots I get paired up with in PUGs.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

BDU Havoc, on 08 January 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

It's called lag shooting. It's not rocket science.

If you can do it with a PPC it's more than rocket science .

[Zerbob]

When the new netcode kicks in (Jan 15th, fingers crossed) along with collisions we certainly will see a big shift in how Lights are used, and which ones are used.

First and foremost you won't see 2 lone Ravens charging an entire enemy team. They'll die too fast. You'll also see Light pilots (after a very harsh few matches of dying fast) using cover more, and generally using better piloting techniques since their lag-shield is gone.

Another big one, you'll start to see more anti-Light builds emerging. Pulse lasers, LB 10-X's, and faster engines on 'Mechs like the Dragon, Centurion, etc. Being able to hit your target better means that better anti-Light weapons (pulse lasers, LB 10-X, etc) will start to be used more often. You will no longer have to hope that your Light pilots win against their Light pilots since Mediums and Heavies will be able to hunt them more efficiently.

Thirdly, we'll start to see a more diversified field of Light 'Mechs being used. All of the non-ECM Light 'Mechs will be fielded more often because of the opening up of Light 'Mech roles (Since they will no longer have to rely on Streaks to do consistent damage to other Lights). I'm personally going to love to be able to bring out my other Raven chassis (4X - MG buff pending).

Lastly, bad Light pilots will die quickly, but good and more so great Light pilots will stand out. Bad pilots will try to brawl, fall over, and promptly have a AC/20 round end their fun. Good pilots will be constantly moving around, using their increased mobility to hit the opponent from different angles and general hell raising.

[sycocys]

To be clear, I can understand people having issues hitting lights going full speed. Sometime's I'll even have issues if I'm shooting torso mounted lasers and trying to bear down on them with the center of my screen - but I see a lot of action where people have a hard time hitting guys that are barely or not even moving.

Personally I tend to believe that these players are likely the ones being most vocal about how op lights are - to some extent they are right, but when you can't hit the broadside of a still atlas, lagshield isn't affecting you as much as you want to believe.

And I totally agree that new netcode and collision will certainly help to weed out the bad light pilots, at the same time I think it will make the good ones even better.

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't complain often about something being OP, but when a Raven can stand still with its back to me, Take 2, 55 point Alphas (Gauss, ERPPC, 3 SRM4) in the back, turn and look at me then run off... I have a problem.

[Kunae]

von Bremerhaven, on 07 January 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

There was none of this 'scouts running and circling through the middle of the OPFOR main body' routine that we see now.

Pft. I did it all the time, back then.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kunae, on 08 January 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

Pft. I did it all the time, back then.

I did it cause i wasn't a scout so much as a harasser.

[Kunae]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 January 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

I did it cause i wasn't a scout so much as a harasser.

Yep.

Can't do that anywhere near as effectively anymore with the huge buff streaks/LRM got, the JJ nerf and lack of collisions. Not to mention the perversion of hit-boxes and netcode put in by the 3.41 Cryengine patch, right before OB.

[Joseph Mallan]

I realize that JJ trajectory was screwed up, but the "Nerf" was needed. Once trajectory is corrected JJ should be working fine.

[Bagheera]

sycocys, on 07 January 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

New netcode and collision mechanics are in place and the inevitable nerf of ecm hits and skilled light pilots are still wrecking house?

Considering I can think of maybe 2 light pilots that I have seen in game that can actually pilot a light mech without resorting to leg-humping, I'm not at all worried about it. Frankly, looking forward to it. And for the record, I don't really care about the ECM thing. Leave it as it is, makes no difference. ECM doesn't stop large caliber projectiles.

[Aym]

What happens when I stroke my E-peen...? Turns out I make posts like this.
Actually when they fix netcode and add collisions and have ECM among other things in balance I'll be proud to know the excellent like pilots I do know and I'll LOL accordingly at anyone that complains about light mechs.

[Ngamok]

sycocys, on 07 January 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

New netcode and collision mechanics are in place and the inevitable nerf of ecm hits and skilled light pilots are still wrecking house?

Just wonder what people think about this. Before they removed collision my 2d was a miniature wrecking ball without packing streaks and no ecm protection what so ever. I still haven't put ecm or any modules on it and usually still devour several mechs with it. The 3L is a proper monster right now. And with a bit of luck on the drop I can still run my jenner's 6 lasers through the back of lrm boats.

What do you think will be the next step to nerf these guys out when people who still can't shoot straight fuss about lights being too powerful? I understand the netcode doesn't help matters out right now, but light pilots will continue to be a force even when it's cleaned up, more so in pug drops where they have the instant advantage of dealing with unorganized tactics, but I'm willing to bet a team of lights in 8v8 will still be a crazy challenge.

Then those pilots deserve to be on top. It's not the problem people are having atm. If you spectate people look at the light pilot drivers on the enemy team how the play. This is how lots of people do it. What happens is, the person you spectate shoots at a light pilot mech. He hits with all bazillion of his lasers. Game only registers 1 tick of damage. ??? Just have to laugh.

Also, you'll notice the bad pilots will run right at larger mechs and just shoot on by the other side because of no collision. Instead of actually working the fair distance circle strafe, they just go right for the legs knowing no one can hit them that close up.

[Carnivoris]

Before ECM, my streak Jenner-D was ridiculously overpowered. It's now useless. I put SRMs on it but I'm always moving so fast in my Jenner that I can never hit lights with them. That was the whole purpose of that build: a light killer. It was *very* good at it, too.

If ECM gets nerfed to allow my streaks to lock on, people better watch out. ESPECIALLY Ravens and Commandos! Once all the lights are dead, I'll be coming for you, assaults. Hope you've got really good aim and a lot of patience because I'll be knocking on your back door with streaks and light lasers and you might never even see me.

[Ngamok]

BDU Havoc, on 07 January 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

People BIT CH, whine, moan and complain now about all lights, the ONLY 'Mechs I have problems with right now are Ravens, and it's because of their crappy hit detection and not their speed or lag shield.

I can compensate for lag.
I can compensate for speed.
I cannot compensate for shots hitting but not registering.

The shots hitting but not registering IS the lagshield people complain about. It's the lag on the net code that seems like your mech hit it but doesn't register.

[Ngamok]

BDU Havoc, on 07 January 2013 - 12:55 PM, said:

My piloting hasn't changed at all, however I have run around and gone "ohh shiat" and gone through a Stalker's crotch.

The only thing that I HATED about collisions were when garbage Dragon and Jenner pilots would simply load up on engine and run around knocking over other lights because they were too terribad to do anything else.

That used to happen to me. I would go out in a Jenner because I wanted to go fast for a match or two and go scout the enemy. The enemy light pilots would run up and litterally charge me to knock me down so their buddies can alpha strike me. And before you say it wasn't I'll tell you when they run right at you before you realize what they intend to do, lots of times it's too late to turn and they react to you and just knock you down. Then their friends are like, lulz 10 lasers to the face as you stand back up.

[Kunae]

Carnivoris, on 08 January 2013 - 07:34 AM, said:

Before ECM, my streak Jenner-D was ridiculously overpowered. It's now useless. I put SRMs on it but I'm always moving so fast in my Jenner that I can never hit lights with them. That was the whole purpose of that build: a light killer. It was *very* good at it, too.

If ECM gets nerfed to allow my streaks to lock on, people better watch out. ESPECIALLY Ravens and Commandos! Once all the lights are dead, I'll be coming for you, assaults. Hope you've got really good aim and a lot of patience because I'll be knocking on your back door with streaks and light lasers and you might never even see me.

If you're relying upon streaks to be a "light killer", then you're not really good at anything.

[Ngamok]

SJ SCP Wolf, on 07 January 2013 - 02:03 PM, said:

The only people I know of that have problems killing lights in this game are forum posters. No one in or out of my clan that isn't terrible or hasn't learned to lag shoot has problems. Lights are going to be squishy food for fast heavy and medium builds.

Light's will need a survivability buff when the lag shield is gone.

Sorry but no. No mech needs a survivabilty buff. People who play lights, play them for the challenge or play them because they like their style of combat. There should be no reason to give a light mech some kind of a buff. In your words, mediums should be given a buff too then because heavies and assaults can kill them faster too.

[Corvus Antaka]

Really depends on what collisions and jumpjets/DFA give us.

[Aym]

Kunae, on 08 January 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

If you're relying upon streaks to be a "light killer", then you're not really good at anything.

You may have misread, he said the mech (therefore the streaks) was good at light killing. That's a fair statement. He may have implied further on that he had some hand in it when he said he would come for the assaults... But then again all of my Atlai builds have fun with little guys trying to "knock on my back door."

[Havyek]

Ngamok, on 08 January 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

The shots hitting but not registering IS the lagshield people complain about. It's the lag on the net code that seems like your mech hit it but doesn't register.

Negative.

I can lag shoot fast Jenners and Commandos, hell I've taken a few out with GR/PPC shots. You need to lead the target often though because their speed + ping makes them seen on your screen further behind than they actually are according to the server.
Ravens are the only 'Mech that I've actually noticed that I've taken shots when they're either running straight at me, away from me, or standing still that I have opened fire on and they have either not taken damage, taken slight damage to a location or have the entire 'Mech take slight damage when hit with a single shot weapon (PPC, GR, AC round etc).

Hell I had someone spectating with me the other night when I was in a COD with a stockish Raven (it wasn't a fast mover, I'd estimate 97 km/h) and I was shooting with SRM6s, LLAS and MPLAS and the spectator was seeing the shots hit, but even made the comment to the effect of "WTH is up with this Raven?" as it was taking barely any damage (I did end up eventually killing it).