37 replies to this topic

[PerfectTommy]

What might be nice instead of knockdown is if the mech "stumbled". Brief slowdown of speed, torso gets knocked in a different direction, perhaps a slight shift in facing away from the direction of fire.


- PT

[WiIIiam]

In MW3, MW4 and MW4 Mercs there were knock downs. This isn't a new mechanic, it's one that shouldn't have been removed from the game. By all means, a mech should be knocked down when its hit by multiple large caliber weapons; in MW4 Mercs I'd knock guys down with my Marauder IIC that mounted a Rail Gun and twin PPCs, you hit an Atlas Daishi Thor, pretty much any mech and it would knock it down. Now of could only knock that mech down with that once but after they respawned you could do it again. Maybe what needs to be down about the mechs knocking mechs down is not only turn that switch back on but also giving us destructible environments.

Edited by Will I Am, 07 January 2013 - 12:48 PM.

[Valkyrie Brynhildr]

CypherHalo, on 07 January 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Aware of that but as you can see from the responses to your thread, they go together. Peace out.

Suppose that's true. I just hope that they do to impliement ramming knockdown doesn't make Dragons play Johnny Contactdamage more than actually firing a weapon.

Maybe a crouch button that keeps you stationary and knocks down mechs that run into you.

[Death Metal]

I assume it will be like the other games where if you shoot someone in the legs with high power weapons they fall over, or if you shoot a light mech pretty much anywhere with high power weapons they fall over

[Cache]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 07 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

With mech VS mech ragdolling out the game right now the system is sitting idle.

I've seen Commandos do cartwheels and other acrobatic death throes (possibly from ammo explosions). What system handles this? After seeing some old videos of collisions where the Mechs stop and fall down slowly, I think I'd like to see the system for death throes used for collisions.

[RagingOyster]

CypherHalo, on 07 January 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Eh, I was not a fan of collision/knockdown when they had it in the game. It just made piloting a light annoying because if you turned a corner and some Assault was standing there, boom, over you go.

That is the point. Personally i cannot wait to step into the path of a circle-strafing Raven and knock him to the ground, followed up by an alpha strike into his cockpit.

[Lyoto Machida]

CypherHalo, on 07 January 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Eh, I was not a fan of collision/knockdown when they had it in the game. It just made piloting a light annoying because if you turned a corner and some Assault was standing there, boom, over you go. Or if one of your buddies in an assault backed up while you were trying to get around, bam, down you go. Then you took forever to get back up.

Cry me a river...

[Sears]

While I would like to see AC/20s knock down lights. I would rather it be a chance thing rather than numerical, it would just promote the use of AC/20 boating. Besides if 2-3 AC/20 rounds hit any light it would explode before being knocked over.

[Harmatia]

This would be a nice feature for the PPC.

[BunnyWabbit]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 07 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I put in a simple Balance System during initial development.

It is a vector that faces up and gets pushed around by the direction and force applied to it when getting hit.
It slowly returns to its starting vector over time.

Once it reaches a threshold, the mech would ragdoll.

With mech VS mech ragdolling out the game right now the system is sitting idle.

Possible/Probable future uses:
-Mech VS Mech collision (when we put it back in)
-Mech VS Weapon (2-3+ AC20 from the same general direction could ragdoll a Jenner etc)
-Mech VS Terrain (if a mech is standing at an edge it could eventually lose its footing and tumble down the hill or stuff like rough terrain at high speed could cause it to tumble)


No design yet to put it back in at this time. Mech VS Mech Coming back in soon, but no date set.

Just a thought Id throw out there but I think if mechs took a significant amount of damage on a certain side of the torso away from the center the mech could be turned in that direction instead of being knocked over and effectively throw off the users view. I think this would be easy to implement also if you use the vector idea but say the vector moves in the lateral direction a certain amount vs the front back direction the user would be turned not knocked over. Not sure if this was implemented before because I joined after it was out of the game but it would make more sense to me.

Ex. Cataphract A is hit by an AC20 on the left arm from the front but not enough damage to take the arm off >>>>this would lead to the mech being turned counter-clockwise of the direction it is facing as opposed to taking center torso ac20 hits and possibly being knocked over backwards. Obviously the amount of turning would depend on the mechs size and weight and location of the hit (the outside causing more turning because of more torque and the inside causing more likely knockdowns).

Just an interesting thought.

[Gigastrike]

There's an idea, when a mech gets hit by a shot strong enough to rip off its armor, lets make it stay perfectly still for a guaranteed kill-shot, too.

[Velba]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 07 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I put in a simple Balance System during initial development.

It is a vector that faces up and gets pushed around by the direction and force applied to it when getting hit.
It slowly returns to its starting vector over time.

Once it reaches a threshold, the mech would ragdoll.

With mech VS mech ragdolling out the game right now the system is sitting idle.

Possible/Probable future uses:
-Mech VS Mech collision (when we put it back in)
-Mech VS Weapon (2-3+ AC20 from the same general direction could ragdoll a Jenner etc)
-Mech VS Terrain (if a mech is standing at an edge it could eventually lose its footing and tumble down the hill or stuff like rough terrain at high speed could cause it to tumble)


No design yet to put it back in at this time. Mech VS Mech Coming back in soon, but no date set.

Oh man, This type of dynamic in the game would be great. Coordinated volley fire from multiple AC/20's....

[CypherHalo]

RagingOyster, on 07 January 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

That is the point. Personally i cannot wait to step into the path of a circle-strafing Raven and knock him to the ground, followed up by an alpha strike into his cockpit.

He would have to be the worst Raven pilot ever for you to get close enough to do that. I think anyone who's driving an Assault and thinks this will help them is fooling themselves. This will just open up the old exploit of having a Jenner ram into somebody so his buddies can shoot the mech down. They get back up, the Jenner rams, here we go again. It shouldn't be a viable strategy as the Jenner should be getting totally mashed and it's an annoying tactic to be on the receiving end of. Maybe if they bring collision back they will fix it so this doesn't happen. We'll see . . .

Roland, on 07 January 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Challenge is something which is enjoyable... Swerving through enemy mechs was a lot more enjoyable in the past, when you risked death by doing so.

It would be challenging if every time I got hit with a laser my mech exploded. I would be risking death anytime I so much as saw an enemy. Forgive my sarcasm but I think you get the point. Just being more challenging does not equal being more fun.

[CypherHalo]

Will I Am, on 07 January 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

In MW3, MW4 and MW4 Mercs there were knock downs. This isn't a new mechanic, it's one that shouldn't have been removed from the game. By all means, a mech should be knocked down when its hit by multiple large caliber weapons; in MW4 Mercs I'd knock guys down with my Marauder IIC that mounted a Rail Gun and twin PPCs, you hit an Atlas Daishi Thor, pretty much any mech and it would knock it down. Now of could only knock that mech down with that once but after they respawned you could do it again. Maybe what needs to be down about the mechs knocking mechs down is not only turn that switch back on but also giving us destructible environments.

It's been years so my memory is foggy but I don't remember knockdown in either of those games. I stuck to playing SP, never played MP, so maybe it's different. What I find hilarious though is you mention respawns, which several people have told me is anathema to MW and no real MW fan accepts respawns and that MW = NO RESPAWNS

IMO, the game become more fun without knockdowns so I don't welcome the news, maybe PGI will have fixed the mechanic so it's not so irritating. I won't hold my breath.

[RagingOyster]

CypherHalo, on 08 January 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

He would have to be the worst Raven pilot ever for you to get close enough to do that. I think anyone who's driving an Assault and thinks this will help them is fooling themselves. This will just open up the old exploit of having a Jenner ram into somebody so his buddies can shoot the mech down. They get back up, the Jenner rams, here we go again. It shouldn't be a viable strategy as the Jenner should be getting totally mashed and it's an annoying tactic to be on the receiving end of. Maybe if they bring collision back they will fix it so this doesn't happen. We'll see . . .

Seeing as I did it all the time when old collision was still in, I think i can safey say that I can do it again and not be "fooling myself" ...
Also, Jenners will not be able to knock anything other than other lights down at all in the new system (from what I have heard) so that "tactic" will just result in the Jenner bouncing off and getting slaughtered. As i said origionally, i cannot wait for the collision system to come back to circle strafing is no longer super-freakin-annoying.

[WiFiN]

Bring it back in, PGI. The vector thing is awesome and would work pretty well if it's mass-based - Jenner or a Raven should not be able to topple an Atlas.

And yeah, I agree that weapon impact knockdown should be more chance-based and result in a "stumble" most of the time - because otherwise light mechs will die instantly as stationary light mech is a dead mech.

Falling off the edges and collisions affecting your balance are cool too. Can't wait to shoot a Commando off the bridge in River City.

[Odins Fist]

Valkyrie Brynhildr, on 07 January 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

A strong enough hit to a Light Mech from a ballistic weapon in this game would send them toppling over and then 20 seconds of immunity for being knocked down by weapons.

.
No immunity "PERIOD", enough light pilots have developed bad enough habits from lack of collision and lag shield already.
.
That will be all....

Edited by Odins Fist, 08 January 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[Broceratops]

Thomas Dziegielewski, on 07 January 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I put in a simple Balance System during initial development.

It is a vector that faces up and gets pushed around by the direction and force applied to it when getting hit.
It slowly returns to its starting vector over time.

Once it reaches a threshold, the mech would ragdoll.

With mech VS mech ragdolling out the game right now the system is sitting idle.

Possible/Probable future uses:
-Mech VS Mech collision (when we put it back in)
-Mech VS Weapon (2-3+ AC20 from the same general direction could ragdoll a Jenner etc)
-Mech VS Terrain (if a mech is standing at an edge it could eventually lose its footing and tumble down the hill or stuff like rough terrain at high speed could cause it to tumble)


No design yet to put it back in at this time. Mech VS Mech Coming back in soon, but no date set.

I enjoy your posts because they usually have actual information and not fluff.

I think distance should also be part of the equation. If a Jenner can be hit with an ac/20 from 400 yards out and still be knocked over, that would suck too much for lights. 20 meters then the impact would be stronger.

Then lights would have a reason to keep a safe distance, or at least wait until the enemy is already fighting other mechs, before going into the fight. As opposed to right now where I can basically just run through the whole team with my ECM and not worry too much.

Another thought is that maybe it shouldn't be limited to lights. Maybe if I can hit an Atlas with enough force on his leg, he'll fall over. It would give leg shooting more traction as right now in almost 3000 games I think I've been legged at most a dozen times in non-lights. And I'm pretty liberal with stripping leg armor.

Edited by Broceratops, 08 January 2013 - 05:51 PM.