44 replies to this topic

[VYCanis]

It would be useless in a circle of death, or if you were running directly at a target. but smokes would be excellent defensively or to allow repositioning, retreats

http://www.sarna.net...renade_Launcher
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Smoke_Shell
http://www.sarna.net...i/Smoke_Warhead
http://www.sarna.net...ibiting_Warhead

[Mchawkeye]

Why do we assume all mechs will have thermal optics?
Why do we also assume that the smoke compound in the universe will react like ours?

Thusly, I see no reason to not have smoke (of any variety) that could be expansive enough to cover a heavy mech. Or thermal optics being a upgrade option only for people willing to pay for it.

At the very least, increased defensive weapons (smoke or otherwise) would help to emphasise the strategic/tactical nature of the game, different to the previous incarnations.

[Damocles]

Smoke would be an interesting thing but I don't see many uses and as has been said; it would take a LOT of smoke to hide most mechs.

And hopefully we will have more than just Thermal imaging, but also Seismic and Magnetics which would even more defeat the purpose and effectiveness of smoke/other obstructions

[MaddMaxx]

If I can NARC a Mech, perhaps I could Smoke a Mech as well. The canister round is fired and sticks to the enemy Mech and creates a cloud around the upper half of the Mech and obscures the Pilots cockpit view. Thermals are unaffected but then the Pilot is fighting via Instruments and not LoS.

That way the cloud follows the enemy Mech around for its duration so the best they can do is fight via Instruments or take Cover (if they can find any) and wait for it to run its course.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 10 December 2011 - 04:15 PM.

[VYCanis]

well all mechs fiction-wise have thermal as well as a host of other sensors. You'd have to be in some jury rigged industrial mech or have your sensors shot out to not have access to thermal optics.

also as it's been pointed out, its not difficult to make IR obscurant smoke. Not all smoke is IR obscurant, but when it is, it does its job.

[CaveMan]

Yes, smoke that counters thermal optics has been known for quite some time. You can also add metallic particles to the smoke which causes it to obscure radar.

Furthermore, white phosphorus (WP) smoke is very hot, chemically reactive, and causes vicious burns to skin on contact, making it a brutal anti-infantry weapon, and a WP smoke round can create more than enough smoke to obscure a heavy 'Mech in a couple of seconds.

Smokescreens would be nice to have, but I'd really like to be able to drop colored smoke markers too.

[CaveMan]

Damocles, on 10 December 2011 - 03:57 PM, said:

Smoke would be an interesting thing but I don't see many uses and as has been said; it would take a LOT of smoke to hide most mechs.

And hopefully we will have more than just Thermal imaging, but also Seismic and Magnetics which would even more defeat the purpose and effectiveness of smoke/other obstructions

http://www.youtube.c...1&v=owQI9NDR2ro

As you can see, WP smoke rounds can create huge clouds of smoke, hundreds of feet high, almost instantly, plenty big enough to hide a 'Mech.

[Kenyon Burguess]

i'd like the option of using smoke cannisters to provide cover for advancing mechs. i'd also like to be able to set fires with a flamer to proved an even better cover.

[Artifact]

The addition of thermal smoke also allows for unique tactical roles. That light mech that would otherwise get curbstomped with heavies and assaults running around? Now it has a role. Laying smoke, putting out recon drones, etc.

This is a re-imaging of the universe. Let's not squander the opportunity to do this right,

[Alizabeth Aijou]

I pity the fool who wastes tonnage on smoke launchers.
My seismic sensors will pick you up regardless.

[CaveMan]

Vibrasensors, pfft. Good luck pinpoint targeting with those.

[VYCanis]

seismic only works if you are stationary and if they are moving

seismic also picks up explosions as noise

[Raeven]

I would love to see all the sensor packages they use in the novels see implementation.

Seismic, Magnetic, IR, and standard visual.

[VYCanis]

If its as a vision mode type of thing, rather than simply a means to get those colored dots on your radar....

seismic i can see being some kinda pale color low contrast view mode where loud noises appear as smears of bright color spreading along the ground. vision range increases the slower you go. useless at a full run.

Magnetic could be something like the above, but the smears of color would belong to anything metal. such as buildings, certain geographic features, and mechs. Chaff could blind this.

IR could be obligatory FLIR cam, mechs that are running hot, or cooling off after having just been running hot would glow like crazy. also fires and weapon fx. IR obscurant smoke could block this.

don't foget basic night vision. Nothing fancy, but no obvious counters either.

Edited by VYCanis, 11 December 2011 - 06:06 PM.

[Dlardrageth]

Considering standard sensor complement on Mechs includes, radar, IR and MAD sensors, smoke would be borderline useful against infantry (once that is implemented). Or deployed at long distances where the other sensors are unreliable. But on the actual battlefield... just a lagmachine and unnecessary burden to your FPS. As much as a nice tactical option it might be on a full "Combined Arms" battlefield, I somewhat doubt it is worth the hustle for MWO. YMMV.

[Mattiator]

Geist Null, on 10 December 2011 - 05:23 PM, said:

i'd like the option of using smoke cannisters to provide cover for advancing mechs.

This is exactly what Smoke Thumpers are for in MekPak 3.1

Can't believe no one's brought these things up. Light tonnage, but they take up a cussload of space, so really only useful for ballistic support units.

EDIT: Also, if we're going for multiple vision modes, then I'd say that each of them can be countered with various items

Fighting at night and the enemy's got Light Amplification? Stick a Flare on his cockpit (LOVED doing this in MechWarrior 4. Always got the enemy riled up when the screen went totally white.)

Fighting someone with Thermal Imaging? Light a fire in front of him, whether with flamers or some Inferno ammunition.

Need to cover a retreat or a forward push? Lob a few smoke shots! It won't hide you perfectly but it'll at least distract the enemy.

Edited by Mattiator, 12 December 2011 - 06:11 AM.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

Quote

Fighting at night and the enemy's got Light Amplification? Stick a Flare on his cockpit (LOVED doing this in MechWarrior 4. Always got the enemy riled up when the screen went totally white.)

Unless, ofcourse, the opponent doesn't use Light Amplification.

Anyway, available options for smoke in 3049 are:
LRM, SRM, 'Mech Mortar, Arrow IV, Thumper, Sniper.

Quote

Can't believe no one's brought these things up. Light tonnage, but they take up a cussload of space, so really only useful for ballistic support units.

They're worse on Tabletop for that. 15 tons for the artillery piece and another ton for 20 smoke shells.
In cases like those, you're really going to ask yourself what you'd rather have, that Thumper, or a Gauss Rifle.

[VYCanis]

a gauss rifle might work all nice and all. But having walls of smokey concealment can royally ***** most of the enemy's gauss rifles while your guys rush into ac20 range. or hide the fact that you just laid down a field of fascams behind the smoke

also there's nothing preventing anyone from taking a half ton of ammo for stuff they won't use a lot of, and having a proportionally higher ammo load of the direct damage stuff.

[CaveMan]

VYCanis, on 12 December 2011 - 08:31 AM, said:

also there's nothing preventing anyone from taking a half ton of ammo for stuff they won't use a lot of, and having a proportionally higher ammo load of the direct damage stuff.

Nothing except the rules, that is (Unless those have changed. Back in the day you had to use whole-ton lots, which made Inferno SRM-2's a cruel joke.)

[VYCanis]

actually the rules did change to allow that. The bushwacker for example only has a half ton of mg ammo.