Athena Pryde, on 11 January 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:
Unfortunately the trials that are quick sacrifice firepower and I don't particularly like their load outs. The Centurion has the shogun LB10X and the Dragon has an Ultra Auto cannon without enough ammo with not enough back up lasers. I did give the Centurion a try will post more on it later.
I really miss good jump jets. Mech Warrior 2 and 3 jump jets really gave you a huge advantage.
I was going to say, "don't knock them 'til you've tried them," but I see you gave the Centurion a try. Good on ya. Trial Mechs are free, so give each a shot if for not other reason than to learn their weaknesses first hand. You may accidentally find that you like the Mech or one of the weapons systems. Even after you buy your own Mech, try the new trials as they rotate through.
Jump jets are a work in progress. I believe their arc is going to be fixed soon so we can actually jump up again. Don't expect the hover jets of MW2 to come back.
Athena Pryde, on 08 January 2013 - 12:26 AM, said:
Initial Impressions of picking a Mech:
Your options for a trial mech to play is really limited. It would be nice if they had more mechs to choose from. They really should just let you pick from any available stock variant of any available mech as a trial mech. If this choice is too broad maybe 1 variant of each mech available. Definitely have a varied choice with the different roles represented and at least 1 ECM varient. Then you would be able to try out various mechs and find one you like and earn experience in it before you buy it. The 4 choices really don't work if someone wants to play a fast ecm scout, sniper, or missle support. Why don't the mechs have stock double heat sinks? They did in other Mechwarrior games.
I agree that more mech variants would be nice in one go, but on the bright side they switch the 4 trial mechs roughly every two weeks (when they're not all on Christmas break at least.) Also to answer you question (which I've highlighted), the game is trying to follow cannon in most aspects which means, that mech's come as the original variant describes, so no Double heat sinks unless that's how the factory made them in the first place.
Also as previously mentioned, the Centurion isn't a bad trial mech either, not overly impressive on paper but with that speed does provide options on how to fight.
the biggest step to upping your game here is to curb the desire to charge ahead..... On any mech BUT the 3F Stalker. Stalkers spread damage across all three torso locs much better than Atlas or any mech around their size. With confidence you can walk thru anything you meet one on one.
As a point and kill build I'd suggest a STD300, 6ML, and 4ArtySRM6. Forget endo or ferro and just sqweeze ammo and DHS in. You'll end up with a rapid return 90 point dagger straight alpha. Then do what your mech is made for, stalk up under cover and pounce.
Little update. Thank you to a friend who helped me get the videos encoded and up on you tube. Will be posting more soon.
For the next games will be lonewolfing it dropping solo with pure randoms. Started putting up some of the videos.
Some constructive comments on how to improve would be nice. Please no your bad. That doesn't help. I'll be honest I still pretty bad with the heat management. This needs a training room where you can go to each level and fire all your different weapon combos and memories how much heat they generate on desert, regular and snow levels.
Game 11 Results
Stalker runs really hot even in the snow level I want to shoot more but I can't without overheating.
Game 12 Results
Yay actually won a game.
Game 13 Results
Game 14 Results
Game 15 Results
We lost to capture. Stalker was too slow to get back to the base.
Game 16 Results
Game 17
Video
Forgot to hit record right away on this one. It seems to record whatever music I was listening to at the time also . We killed one light before I hit record.
Results Screen
Stalker is really slow and combersome I'm finding it was really annoying to try and get a shot at that really quick lights and mediums.
At roughly 2:28
What was that someone just walked right through me? It sure seemed like that mech shouldn't fit between my mech and the rock there.
Game 18
Video
Heat is really bad for the stalker on desert level .
I'll admit I'm really terrible at shooting fast lights.
Kind of hard to go back to the base while engaged without getting shot in the back sorry I'll fight here instead of getting shot in the back thank you.
I do see where Assault mechs have a huge liability in going slow to get back to the base though.
Walked out a bit too far from that outcrop at the end there.
Results Screen
Game 19
Video
Watching this again I think the right way to handle this hill is to all crest at the same time or flank and pick a target to focus on but since we aren't that organized just pop out shoot, if someone notices and shoots me run back.
Results Screen
Stalker 3F trial Review
I like that it has weapons for all ranges.
This runs a bit hotter then I originally though.
LRM 10s really don't seem to be that good in comparison to the twinks with 4 large LRM launchers. Would like to try upgrading these to LRM 15s. Their effectiveness varies. You tend to lose locks if you don't have direct line of sight. LRMs are also sometimes rendered useless by PGI's wonder ECM and you don't have a TAG to get around the wonder ECM at range.
Large Lasers are good but very hot. 8 heat for 8 damage isn't very good ratio but they have good range.
Medium Lasers are the staple but 4 of them does heat you up significantly. Something tells me it isn't quite right. Shooting 4 mediums heats me up more then the larges or am I looking at the percentage gauge wrong?
SRM6's the spread seems pretty bad beyond 100 meters they scatter all over the mech. I need to use these more as they are low heat.
Stalker turns pretty slowly is the annoying part being used to Jump Jets letting you turn faster or jump to get a better angle in previous games. Hoping this gets better with piloting skills.
Heat is the big issue with the Stalker 3F trial. 20 heatsinks just isn't enough. Maybe when I get to customize it and add more heatsinks and upgrade to double heatsinks it will be better.
I think I need to hang back more due to being slow once I commit I'm stuck I can't disengage like with something faster.
Other impressions
One thing that is really really annoying is having to wait to the end of a match to get a results screen. You can't just quit the match and then when the match is over it notifies you and you can click on the notification to get a results screen.
And the replies to comments.
@Dukarriope
That is a hard question. I like different songs depending on my mood. Sorry
@Orzorn
My big issue with the Centurion is its XL engine makes it more vulnerable if you lose a side torso your dead. I find the Stalker tends to lose a side torso before my center gets cored more often then not.
I will give each the dragon and centurion a few games each and reevaluate them after those games.
@Bishop Steiner + Rebel 816
Will give Centurion a try and report back with what I feel after actually trying it a few times.
@Taizan
I agree there should be more choice for trials. I just played mostly clan for the older games so hence the comparison. Thank you for the useful tips link in your signature.
@JD White
A bit late for that but I will give all the trial mechs a try.
@Murku
That sounds evil IF you can get in range.
Edited by Athena Pryde, 13 January 2013 - 04:19 PM.
I thought the Stalker was a fun little mech, at least the trial one. It's slow, yes, and if you get tagged by lights, I hope you have friends to help you out! But you should cycle through them as you play and get better.
Then you can use your hard-earned Cbills on a nice Cataphract and kick some *** alongside me. My pulse laser build deals massive damage every game, and is quite balanced compared to many other builds out there. I'm also experimenting with dropping in an XL 340 engine in my Phract... not having as much success so far as my slower ones.
Beginners should stop using assaults. Assaults are the hardest to play well. Beginners need to rely more on speed than firepower. 12 games with no kills is really atrocious result...
The most "new player" friendly mechs are IMO the Cicada and the Cataphract, unfortunately neither of those are trials at the moment. Once you run out your cadet bonus, I would recommend to any one new to try either of those depending on if you want to be a quick brawler or a heavy-firepower brawler. There's always hunchbacks too, but I don't have much experience with those myself.
Athena Pryde, on 12 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:
Large Lasers are good but very hot. 8 heat for 8 damage isn't very good ratio but they have good range.
Medium Lasers are the staple but 4 of them does heat you up significantly. Something tells me it isn't quite right. Shooting 4 mediums heats me up more then the larges or am I looking at the percentage gauge wonrg?
While I do agree the heat scales are still a bit off(PPC's they've admitted are the worst offenders and currently being looked at for tweaks), you wouldn't be wrong in that those 4 mediums are causing more heat then 2 larges.. since even by table top rules that is the case (2 LL =16 heat 4 medium = 20). Though larges are 9 damage in MWO(heat I couldn't tell you since it's not really the same kind of point system, just "similar" to table top). You can't really make heat neutral builds like tabletop and some mechwarrior games.
Athena Pryde, on 12 January 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:
Some constructive comments on how to improve would be nice. Please no your bad. That doesn't help. I'll be honest I still pretty bad with the heat management. This needs a training room where you can go to each level and fire all your different weapon combos and memories how much heat they generate on desert, regular and snow levels.
As was mentioned above, stop running the Stalker if you can't manage the heat quite yet. The Centurion is the way to go with the current Trial Mechs. If you're stuck on the Stalker, use chain fire for everything. (backspace when the weapon group is selected.) Do not use large lasers at close range--use mediums and SRMs (chain fired). Save larges for medium ranges.
Follow this diagram. Basically, what you see isn't what's happening. Unless the crosshair is turning red, you're not doing any damage.
The faster the target moves, the worse it gets, even if it looks like you could just shoot it.
LRMs are NOT a long-ranged weapon. You want to shoot them anywhere from 250 to 400 meters. More, people will jump into cover, or the missiles won't have time to reach. Less, they'll get into your minimum range and you'll do nothing.
The stalker is an easy bake oven, like the old M awesome trial. It exists to cook new players, and make them believe assaults take some kind of epic skills to play.
Don't focus on damage total, but on assists. If you get assists, you're always getting damage, and you're helping your team where it counts. Kind of like a lot of essential life skills. The basic performance is the foundation for everything else, but getting stuck on the details will slay you and your confidence.
Everybody who tells you about 'heat management,' or any kind of other buzzword, needs to be ignored. The heat bar is a glorified mana bar. You can do a few big spells, or a lot of small spells. Install more heatsinks for more total mana. There are no downsides, and there's no management, except the extremely difficult 'sometimes letting the trigger go for an extra second or two.'
For your first mech, i would think ahead. Catapults are great. Centurions are not so great. Dragons are terrible. It's easy to figure out why and how.
Don't ever, ever listen to people who tell you that 'it works for them.' A bad dragon costs more than a good cat, and is extremely inferior. Lights aren't cheap, unlike what people will tell you. You'll easily sink 8 million into a commando before it pulls the weight.
Athena if you have a headset/mic with teamspeak 3, I would be more than willing to help you learn the game if you want. Add me to your friends list just as you see my name here. I am online most nights, just send me a message and I will give your the TS3 info to join.
Onto the OP. This is a good read for new players, it gives them an idea of what to expect both good and bad from the perspective of another new player. It has some depth to it and I find that more refreshing than the usual garbage that litters this forum.
Recently i wanted to try to get a friend to play mwo and because i knew trial mechs were painful and i did not want this friend to quit the game before he got to the good part of owning his own mech, i decided to surprise him and farm the 25 cadet games on his account (yes i know, account sharing is bad and against the eula, but tbh if the devs want to ban me for wanting to help a friend out, than i dont want to be a part of their game ). The results were pretty bad...
First some quick background on me as a mwo player: Ive been playing mwo since closed beta since around july when i played on a friends account because he got a beta invite before i did (******* ) and than early sep when i decided to opt in for the founders program so i could play on my own account. I mostly pug (lets say 95% of my games are in a pug) and win more than i lose, have a decent k/d ratio (2.5 ish) and frequently come out with top dmg done of both teams, so all in all i can say that im a pretty decent mwo player.
Picking which trial mech to play was pretty easy. The trial raven was out of the question right off the bat because of its speed, or lack of (it pretty much has nothing going for it). Tried the dragon, but decided it just doesnt pack enough of a punch and has a mix of weapons that i dont really feel comfortable with. That left me with the centurion and the stalker 3f. The centurion was surprisingly fun to play and all in all was not as horribly fit as i had come to expect from trial mechs (was still bad, but something i could sort of work with). In the end though, i did 19 games out of the 25 with the stalker 3f because that was the mech i was going to recommend to my friend for his first mech (good mix of new player friendly hardpoints and after 25 games u can just afford to buy it and get most of what you need to fit it like u want).
So now to how it went...well, i did not really pay attention to my win/loss ratio (but i did lose more than i won), i did however pay attention to my damage done and kills and they were pretty sad (in 25 games i got 4 kills and the dmg reflected that as well-noone kill stole my targets ). The trial stalker fit is just horrid. Its not fit to be good at close, medium or long range, so you end up not being good at any range but you can sort of work around that. The truly horrible part however is its heat efficiency if you can even call it that. One would think all the lasers were pointed inwards in to the cockpit. I have my own stalker on my account and it is by no means a heat friendly mech, but compared to the trial one its like taking a stroll down the beach at night with a cool breeze blowing from the sea.
So yah, my point in all this being: Trial mechs are hard to work with even if you're an experienced mwo player. If youre someone thats just starting out and does not have the hang of the game and its mechanics yet, you are pretty much in a hopeless possition. But if you can manage to keep playing the after the initial 25 matches of pure torture, than a whole new world opens up.
As for hints and tips:
-Personally i prefer building my mechs for one specific role/range, so i try to avoid mixing weapons that only work at a certain range with others that work at a different range (mixing lrms and srms/ssrms for example). You want to focus on either being great at close range and play ur mech to that advantage or fit and play to be good at long range (although from my exp, short range is more reliable, since more often than not, ull end up fighting at sub 200m ranges and on top of that lrm require you to rely on ur team mates being good and reliably spotting for you and at the same time the enemy being bad and not using cover and/or not using ecm). You can compensate for different ranges by using larger energy weapons or balistics, since most of those are equally good at close and long range.
-In a high heat mech like the stalker, you should try to avoid straight up brawling with mechs of equal or greater armor to yours, since your heat efficiency wont really let u keep ur weapons going for long. You will however have a huge advantage in peekaboo styles where u use cover and pop out to unleash ur devastating alpha strike or 2, than hopping back in to cover to avoid being shot up while you cool off.
-If you are hurt, try to turn ur mech to expose fresh armor to give you time to cool off or just to stall ur death, even if it means u cant hit back for the duration (if you can, try to quickly turn and take a shot at them right after they shoot u). Sometimes enemys will be so hellbent on destroying you once they see one of your parts is in the red that by making them have to circle you or go trough fresh armor after u turn ur mech "away" from them, you give your team time to take free shots at your tunnel vision enemy.
-Patience is a virtue. Dont charge over a ridge in to the enemy guns blazing. Stay on your side with your team and wait for the enemy to slip up. There will almost always be a couple players that want to end the game as soon as possible and just charge in to your group and after youve killed a couple of them, you can return the favor and charge the remaining enemy force to crush them. (This tactic doesnt really work that reliably, since your team will usually have some suicidal hotheads as well But if you manage to communicate your plan and they follow it, you are well on your way to victory).
-Prioritise your targets: slow&hurt>slow>fast and hurt>fast (depending on the situation, if theres no ecm and you have ssrms or the "fast" mechs are being stupid and giving u good shots then change this order to fast&hurt>slow&hurt>fast>slow). With ecm, bad netcode and general lag its usually harder (sometimes even impossible) to go trough 10 points of armor on a commando than 100points of armor on an atlas.
-Communication and team work is key. If you can, hop on the public MWO/Comstar TS servers and get 3 others to drop with. Now, you could ask why i mostly pug if TS is worth pure gold? Its simple: I usually only play a couple games during my study breaks to relax a bit and very seldom get the chance to put hours at a time in to it, and as such finding or making a team on ts would be inefficient and a waste of my time and theirs.
Thats all i got for now. I hope some new player gets some use out of it. But to all; GL HF and see you on the battlefield!
Should have some more updates tonight. The videos upload kinda slow.
@rgreat
I will have some Centurion games and impressions up soon.
@torgian
I actually tried all 4 trials.
Would be nice if there was a trial Cataphract so I could actually try out the chassis before buying.
@Foxtrot Uniform
I thought table top
large lasers were 8 heat for 8 damage
medium laser 3 heat for 5 damage
So
2 large lasers is 16 heat for 16 damage
4 mediums is 12 heat for 20 damage
MWO it seems that the 4 mediums make slightly more heat then the 2 large.
@Cache
Thank you. I'm getting better with it. Is it just me or is the heat meter thing seems to be different for different salvos on different levels snow or desert so its a higher percentage of the heat meter for the same volley on desert and you cool off slower?
@Vassago Rain
Thank you. Trying to lead stuff isn't intuitive though you think laser is a beam of light it gets there instantly.
I get that about the heat bar but is it a different heat cost based on desert or snow level + you cool off slower on desert, faster on snow?
Bit late since I bought a Stalker but it got a bit better after customizing more on it tonight.
@Sennin
Thank you. I would like to finish out my initial review set before joining a premade. I will want to join a premade later.
Thats the whole idea to provide my thoughts for my real life friends who won't touch betas with a 10 foot pole.
@Kushko
I been noticing the same thing trials are bad all around compared to custom mechs. I probably would have quit if I wasn't doing a write up for my friends. I also play odd times due to insomnia and most of my real life friends won't touch anything beta with a 10 foot pole.
Edited by Athena Pryde, 13 January 2013 - 10:39 PM.
Athena Pryde, on 13 January 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:
Would be nice if there was a trial Cataphract so I could actually try out the chassis before buying.
Bit late since I bought a Stalker but it got a bit better after customizing more on it tonight.
They'll rotate new trials in on Tuesday when they patch. Light will be a Spider for sure, can't remember what's up next for mediums but I think it's the Cicada, same for heavies but I think it might be the Cataphract, and I'm pretty sure the assault will be an Atlas.
The Stalker is the most clumsy and awkward to maneuver mech currently in the game, which makes up for the fact that it can carry the most firepower. The Cataphract can also pack a serious amount of pain (focused generally on ballistics instead of missiles) and is practically a ballerina compared to the Stalker.
I wouldn't presume to say you made a mistake by buying a Stalker as your first mech, plenty of people like them and get good results, but I've never really felt threatened by one. They can be outmaneuvered by a good Atlas, and easily outmaneuvered by anyone else. Of course if trial Atlai are all over the field next week, you may have a lot of luck with a custom Stalker anyway.
Edited by Warrax the Chaos Warrior, 13 January 2013 - 12:00 PM.
You've played a number of matches and have the cadet bonus, so you should have some good bank saved up.
Here is my biggest piece of advice... buy a Mech, doesn't really matter which one, just buy one that leaves you about 2mill cbills left over.
Truth of the matter is, you are playing with a gigantic handicap, you have no idea how much. The trial Mechs are crap and so are the default mechs. Simple fact is, pretty much every single person you are facing that isn't on their first mech, has a Mech with endo steel and double heat sinks ( with few exceptions like pure ballistic mechs or mechs with tight critical space ). You simply have no idea how much of an advantage those two upgrades are. For a medium, those two upgrades basically free up enough weight to DOUBLE your weapon load out, ammo and still give you better heat management.
Seriously, stop thinking too much about which mech to buy, just buy one, throw on DHS and Endo, then load it out with the weapons you like. You will make more money ( due to doing more damage ), will probably have more fun and you wont be fighting at such a gigantic disadvantage.
Basically any of the medium/heavy mechs are a good choice and a great place to start.
Some patches, hotter maps are indeed hotter, and colder maps are colder. This patch, it seems to be working as intended.
ALWAYS REMEMBER THAT MOVING FULL TILT PUTS A LOT OF HEAT ON YOUR MECH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most don't even realize. You sometimes want to root yourself to the spot, for that one extra attack cycle. This is an important weapon that enemy fatlases will use against you. When they stop moving, they're preparing their supercombo.
It's a pretty significant heat build-up on caustic.
You want to grind out the basic skills as fast as possible. Get the heat bonus and anchor turn ones first.
When I go stalker, I like having a full 24 tube SRM bomb and cyclefire medium lasers, that I can also shoot all six of at once. The way the mech works, you're almost guaranteed to lose at least one side before your center torso pops.
LocationSecond star to the right and straight on til morning
Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:09 PM
Heat behaves differently on every map, and also in different places on the same map. In caustic valley, you're heat will go through the roof quicker inside the caldera than elsewhere on the map. Conversely, in river city your heat accrual will be slower and your dissipation greater if you're in the water. Also, i think (though i'm not sure) that if you have heat sinks in your legs and you're standing in the water your dissipation will be greater still.
This is an excellent thread. Stick with your mech of choice; everyone stinks at first. The trick is to be determined enough to stay with your mech until you learn it.
All of my stalkers look something like this. Sometimes, I like the double AMS one better, and it has artemis. You can do inventory tetris to put a bunch more heatsinks in that one, but it means you have to downgrade from SRM6 to SRM4 - which is sometimes worth it.
You want a 300 so you can sorta turn. The 3F's advantage is that it has a much bigger turn radius than all other stalkers.
5
Athena Pryde, on 11 January 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:
. We killed one light before I hit record.
(2 LL =16 heat 4 medium = 20). Though larges are 9 damage in MWO(heat I couldn't tell you since it's not really the same kind of point system, just "similar" to table top). You can't really make heat neutral builds like tabletop and some mechwarrior games.
). The results were pretty bad...
